DTS-CD $99 Creative DTS external ENCODER!!

[TopTip]

Yes.....and quite nicely too

Are there any instructions for setting levels? It does not seem to have VU meters or anything of the sort. It would be nice to get a sense of what input sensitivities were so one can use some sort of external metering. I could not even find any documentation on the Creative site.

 

[richard clarke]

this unit outputs at 48khz so you will need a cd recorder with a sampling rate
converter to convert to 44.1 khz.
ie. tascam cdrw700or cdrw750 etc.

 

[Wunlow]

So which output sampling rate is it- 44.1 khz or 48 khz??

We have conflicting posts in this thread.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I assumed it output at 44.1 kHz since someone indicated it worked with their CD recorder. I didn't know that there are CD recorders that can accept a 48 kHz signal, so my assumption was based (apparently) on another bad assumption.

So... I'm confused again. @:

 

[bming]

Brian from Brisbane is also annoyed that the product does not appear on the Australian Creative Web site. What a simple way of connecting my old quad gear to my home theatre system for real time playback. I hope it does appear as a main stream product here soon. It looks a bargain price to me.
@:

 

[rustyandi]

I imported mine from overseas
It outputs at 48
You need a tascam or another pro unit that down samples
to 44.1 and it works well
I have done it
Strait from tape in DTS encoder to tascam Cd recorder
It did no work on a Pioneer Cd recorder that I have
ron

 

[TopTip]

I ran some tests on this device tonight, just with a signal generator and a 'scope. Looks like the input starts overloading at 2V (RMS, or 2.8V p-p [I think these are the right expressions: 2V is what my VOM reads and 2.8V is from the negative to positive peak of the sine wave on the 'scope -- I will appreciate the correct terminology from someone who knows]).

There does not seem to be compressor -- the top of the sine wave starts flattening hard at that input level.

I ran this at 1kHz but the overload level seems constant to 20kHz. Frequency response looked reasonably flat also. A 1kHz square wave had good shape but some ringing on the top.

I would recommend, in converting quad to DTS with this machine, +3dB should be set to 2VRMS for safety.

 

[mandrix]

I imported mine from overseas
It outputs at 48
You need a tascam or another pro unit that down samples
to 44.1 and it works well
I have done it
Strait from tape in DTS encoder to tascam Cd recorder
It did no work on a Pioneer Cd recorder that I have
ron

My Sony recorder has a sampling rate converter. If the incoming signal
is not 44.1 it goes through the converter. If it is, it just bypasses
the circuits. I haven't tested this, merely RTM (read the manual).
FWIW
Gerald

 

[mandrix]

Not being knowledgeable on DTS, I have to ask: is there any advantage
to piping a stereo track through this unit?
Or does it merely encode the source to DTS?
Thanks.

 

[Quadzilla]

Not being knowledgeable on DTS, I have to ask: is there any advantage
to piping a stereo track through this unit?
Or does it merely encode the source to DTS?
Thanks.

No benefit at all for stereo use ... unless you are using a Variomatrix with 2-ch program material that decodes nicely. I have done that, and it works well. For purely stereo recording it does nothing. Mike.

 

[mandrix]

No benefit at all for stereo use ... unless you are using a Variomatrix with 2-ch program material that decodes nicely. I have done that, and it works well. For purely stereo recording it does nothing. Mike.

Thanks, Mike.

 

[The Quadfather]

Hey TipTop, et al:
I can answer your questions about voltage measurement.

Peak to Peak: As measured on an oscilloscope, Peak to Peak is the measurement from the bottom of the most negative peak to the top of the most positive peak. It is also referred to as IPP or Instantaneous Peak to Peak.

Peak Voltage: Also as measured on an oscilloscope, the measurement from the zero reference line to the top of the most positive peak or to the bottom of the most negative peak, depending on whether you want to measure the positive or the negative peak. For audio they will be about the same, but for video they will be different.

RMS Voltage: RMS stands for Root Means Squared and is a measurement that represents the DC equivalent of an AC measurement. It is essentially what you would get if you rectified the AC and filtered it. The RMS measurement cannot be directly measured on an oscilloscope. You must measure the peak voltage and multiply by 0.707 . The RMS figure would be meaningless with an asymetrical waveform such as video, so it is never used for that. RMS is used by quality audio equipment manufacturers to rate amplifiers and speakers for power (wattage). Some equipment manufacturers rate their gear in IPP so to inflate the figure. After all 100 watts IPP sounds a lot better than 35 watts RMS, but they are the same thing. When I used to be in audio work, we had more respect for manufacturers who rated their gear in RMS than those who used IPP. But I see nowdays that a lot of manufacturers quit fighting this battle and are rating their stuff in IPP. When you buy an amplifier or a set of speakers, you need to know this so that you will know exactly what you're getting. I have an amplifier in my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee that's rated at 400 watts. Sounds impressive and loud doesn't it? It's a four channel amp so that splits down to 100 watts per channel IPP, which when you apply the math, divide by two to get the peak wattage, then multiply by .707, and you have 35 watts per channel RMS. An acceptable amp for sure, but not what you would expect for 400 watts. But 35 watts per channel is quite powerful in the confines of a vehicle.

The Quadfather

 

[spenceo]

Substitute volts for watts

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=62070&postcount=4

 

[The Quadfather]

Hey Y'all:
OK, now I have a question. Those of you who purchased the DTS610, and had success with coupling it to your CD recorders, what make and model are you using, and is the recorder actually downsampling the DTS or just recording it at 48KHZ? Do any of you have a Clarion DTS system in your vehicle, and will the discs play there? Has anyone used an external downsampler with success? I have tries the Behringer SRC2000 with 48KHZ from a DVD Audio player to a DTS decoder and met with failure. So apparently I have not figured out this downsampling thing. Enquiring minds want to know!

The Quadfather

 

[vinylguy4]

I have a standalone Pioneer PDR-609 CD recorder with digital inputs.
The manual says "if recorder senses digital signal at 32 or 48kHz, it will convert it to 44.1kHz."

Will this work for me with the Creative Labs DTS-610?

Vinylguy4

 

[The Quadfather]

Hey Vinylguy4:
You might try to see if it will record a DTS stream from a DVD player. That would be 48KHZ. Two questions here, will the recorder recognize it and make the recording? And will the encoding survive the downsampling process? If the CD plays in surround, then the DTS encoder will probably work. I ordered mine today. I don't have gear it will work with, but I wanted to get one before they vanished from the market. I will work out the compatibility issues later, even if I have to buy the gear to work with it. Let me know how your experiment works out if you try what I suggested. Good Luck and happy listening!

The Quadfather

 

[vinylguy4]

The DTS-610 arrived.
I hooked it up.
It works and it doesn't work.
It can feed a DTS signal at 44.1k to a CD recorder and make 5.1 channel DTS CDs.
Using Pioneer PDR-609 standalone CD recorder in my case.
I also fed the DTS output to a Technics SH-AC500D and the DTS lights up and will send a steady DTS stream.
That is all good.

Now the bad part, if the incomming analog signal is too strong, the resulting output will contain clipping/static/crackle sounds.
Will get the crackles during loud passages, drum hits, etc.
Not good.
So will need to send the analog signal through something that will attenuate the signal.
A low amplitude signal to this encoder does fine. A loud signal gets the problem. I don't see any way to adjust this on the encoder.

Hopefully, the part that doesn't work can be overcome.
Overall, the DTS-610 does work.

Vinylguy4

 

[ChristopherLees]

The DTS-610 arrived.
I hooked it up.
It works and it doesn't work.
It can feed a DTS signal at 44.1k to a CD recorder and make 5.1 channel DTS CDs.
Using Pioneer PDR-609 standalone CD recorder in my case.
I also fed the DTS output to a Technics SH-AC500D and the DTS lights up and will send a steady DTS stream.
That is all good.

Now the bad part, if the incomming analog signal is too strong, the resulting output will contain clipping/static/crackle sounds.
Will get the crackles during loud passages, drum hits, etc.
Not good.
So will need to send the analog signal through something that will attenuate the signal.
A low amplitude signal to this encoder does fine. A loud signal gets the problem. I don't see any way to adjust this on the encoder.

Hopefully, the part that doesn't work can be overcome.
Overall, the DTS-610 does work.

Vinylguy4

yes when you overload dts digital you get bad distortion....you need to have 6 vu meters ... in line somewhere to see how loud it gets...and perhaps feed it through a 5.1 receiver(or preamp) with preamp outs so you can attenuate 5.1 by a single volume control..
personally when I have used it, I usually have it coming from a Tascam da88 which of course has 8 channels with vu meters , and the levels have already been sorted out in advance ,but to do a live feed you really want 6 vu meters and a 6 channel volume control to avoid overload.

I guess a really cheap way would be to use 3 cassette decks in monitor mode..i.e. have it in play/rec pause for the enitre duration of your dts transfer ...the vu meters will work and so will the line level volume control on the 3 decks..(3 stereo decks = 6 channel sound.).... take up a bit of space but it would work and shouldn't cost alot..any old stereo deck will do the job...

 

[The Quadfather]

Attenuators are easy to construct if you have any electronic skills at all. Here's how to do it. To construct an attenuator you will need:

12 1000 ohm resistors, or other values as mentioned below.

3 Stereo Cables, RCA to whatever the DTS610 uses, probably minature phone.

1 soldering iron and some solder. Wire cutters (dykes)

some heat shrink for insulation, some small and some larger.

cut the cables in half, where you want the attenuator to be. separate the stereo pairs and remove the outer insulation about an inch and a half back on one of the stereo pair. unravel the shield braid and twist to make into a stranded wire. twist the braids of the two halves of the cut cable together with the lead of one of the 1K resistors. trim the end of this connection and solder so that solder covers about a half inch of the end of the connection. Put heat shrink on this and shrink to insulate. Now, take the other end of the resistor (1) twist it with the lead of another resistor (2), and take the cable
with the miniature phone plug and remove the insulation from the center conductor. Twist the center conductor to the junction between the two resistors and trim and solder. Insulate with heat shrink. Remove the insulation from the center conductor of the RCA side of the cable and twist it with the free lead of the second resistor. Trim, solder, and insulate with heat shrink. Oh, I forgot to tell you to slip the large heat shrink over the cable before you start so that it can be slipped over the whole thing and shrunk down. Anyway, having done this, arrange the parts for compactness, making sure any bare parts of the connections do not touch each other, and slip the heat shrink over the whole mess and shrink it down. Now, repeat this procedure for the remaining five channels. This will cut the signal in half. for more attenuation, raise the ohms value of the second resistor. Doubling the value will cut the signal to 1/3 of the input. That should be all you need if that much. To lessen the attenuation, instead, raise the value of the first resistor. if you make it 2K, it will give you 2/3 attenuation. Between 1/3, 1/2, and 2/3, you ought to be able to find the right level. (note, this can be put together and tested before any soldering takes place) I guess the best way to test it is to put it into the DTS 610, and put that into a DTS decoder. put some prerecorded DTS material into another input on the decoder and compare levels. Oh, you have to put an analog signal into the cable from a player or whatever you intend to use. If the DTS 610 is louder, you need more attenuation, and vice versa. Good luck.

The Quadfather

P.S. All of these parts are availlable at radio shack.

 

[vinylguy4]

Thanks for the attenuation suggestions.

Most of what I'll be recording is 4 channel, so an extra Q8 recorder in record/monitor mode should be sufficient. I can also use my 4 channel cassette recorder. I only tested one sacd for a 5.1 to dts test, that did not get the problem, so may not need a 6 channel attenuator.

The soldering iron and resistor project sounds like something I could do.
Next rainy Sunday, I've got something to work on.

One gotcha, the digital recording level on the CD recorder needs to be set to +0.00 db (don't do anything to the volume). Any change to volume will produce an unusable (white noise) dts cd. This was in the user manual, found it after I ummmm..., tested this limitation on my first cd and it failed.

Vinylguy4