Atmos vs Auro 3D

[GOS]

I'm not sure why this topic confuses me....
I have a Denon AVR-X4400H, which has both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D capabilities. I thought Auro 3D and Atmos were another audio format (like DTS HD Master)
Maybe they are not...if not..what the hell are they? So, there is question 1.

Question 2 -

When I play an Atmos soundtrack via my Oppo 103, my Denon automatically engages Atmos.
When I play an Auro 3D soundtrack....my Denon engages DTS HD Master. Huh? Why doesn't it switch to Auro 3D? In this case, I have to manually switch my Denon to Auro 3D by going into music settings.

I'm sure I'm just uninformed and all this Atmos and or Auro is not what I think it is....but shouldn't my Denon minimally switch to Auro 3D when I select that on the BD Audio menu?

 

[GOS]

I put this in hardware as I was thinking about my Oppo and Denon. I realize audio formats are not hardware.....

 

[timbre4]

I put this in hardware as I was thinking about my Oppo and Denon. I realize audio formats are not hardware.....

It fits, we might adjust the title to be more about Denon Automatic modes than a format debate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bnyhof]

I'm not sure why this topic confuses me....
I have a Denon AVR-X4400H, which has both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D capabilities. I thought Auro 3D and Atmos were another audio format (like DTS HD Master)
Maybe they are not...if not..what the hell are they? So, there is question 1.

Question 2 -

When I play an Atmos soundtrack via my Oppo 103, my Denon automatically engages Atmos.
When I play an Auro 3D soundtrack....my Denon engages DTS HD Master. Huh? Why doesn't it switch to Auro 3D? In this case, I have to manually switch my Denon to Auro 3D by going into music settings.

I'm sure I'm just uninformed and all this Atmos and or Auro is not what I think it is....but shouldn't my Denon minimally switch to Auro 3D when I select that on the BD Audio menu?

My Denon does the same. Presumably an oversight as Denon has only recently added Auro 3D. Maybe they'll fix it in the next firmware update.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I'm not sure why this topic confuses me....
I have a Denon AVR-X4400H, which has both Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D capabilities. I thought Auro 3D and Atmos were another audio format (like DTS HD Master)
Maybe they are not...if not..what the hell are they? So, there is question 1.

Question 2 -

When I play an Atmos soundtrack via my Oppo 103, my Denon automatically engages Atmos.
When I play an Auro 3D soundtrack....my Denon engages DTS HD Master. Huh? Why doesn't it switch to Auro 3D? In this case, I have to manually switch my Denon to Auro 3D by going into music settings.

I'm sure I'm just uninformed and all this Atmos and or Auro is not what I think it is....but shouldn't my Denon minimally switch to Auro 3D when I select that on the BD Audio menu?

I’ll answer question number two, first.

Each input on your Denon should automatically remember what codec you had it set at.

I’ve read in the manual that because there’s a licensing agreement with Dolby, you cannot use an up mixer on top of it but it looks like you can with DTS. So, it’s possible you may be switching the codec when you play a DTS source.

Question number 1:

There are good articles out on the Web regarding the different codecs you’re asking about.

Here’s a good one about Atmos. I’ll see if I can find the really good one on Auro.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

My Denon does the same. Presumably an oversight as Denon has only recently added Auro 3D. Maybe they'll fix it in the next firmware update.

Maybe, you two have a defective receiver? My 4400 stays on Auro-3D unless I’m playing a Dolby track.

What am I missing here?

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

 

[bnyhof]

Maybe, you two have a defective receiver? My 4400 stays on Auro-3D unless I’m playing a Dolby track.

What am I missing here?

Playing a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X source, my receiver automatically jumps to the equivalent sound mode. With an Auro3D source it does not. If you were previously using the Auro3D mode it stays on it.

 

[GOS]

Maybe, you two have a defective receiver? My 4400 stays on Auro-3D unless I’m playing a Dolby track.

What am I missing here?

Playing a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X source, my receiver automatically jumps to the equivalent sound mode. With an Auro3D source it does not. If you were previously using the Auro3D mode it stays on it.

Exactly how mine does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[svengaleekie]

Gos. as you know I have the same Denon and I have noticed that if you let it do it's own thing when playing a DTS source into it will go to 'auto' and on the display says 'DTS-HD +Neural:X and upmixes to all speakers, I usually don't let it do this and choose 'direct' by hitting the yellow button on the remote under the 'sound mode' line, to listen to the source as it was intended. At least that is how I interpret what is happening

 

[salsdali]

on my Pioneer SC-97 I have to select "Listening Mode" on the remote and then "Object" in "Rendering Mode" to tell the receiver to play Atmos because otherwise it always defaults to "Legacy" Mode and will only play DD 7.1 in Legacy mode so it seems there are other receivers besides Denon that that makes you jump thru hoops just to hear Atmos.

BTW, if I play DTS:X I don't have to switch from Legacy to Object mode because apparantly either the receiver switches for me or DTS:X is not Object based in the same way as Atmos (which makes no sense to me).

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I wasn’t sure where to Post this. I didn’t want to start another Thread. So, I thought best to hijack this one.

I finally completed my height speaker arrangement. I was using my extra speakers configured as upfiring modules for a few months. It sounded better than not using those speakers. Last week, I moved my rear upfiring to the height position for Auro-3D. It sounded a bit different and quite a bit better. I was waiting until I visited my storage locker to pick up some longer speaker wire to get my front heights up too which was yesterday. Today, I finished the install and ran the Audyssey room correction software via my Denon AVR-X4400H and Audyssey iOS app. I can’t believe the huge difference I’m hearing. I always favored Auro-3D as an upmixer over Dolby Surround or DTS Neural: X. What I love about Auro-3D, in comparison, is it ability to take a flat two-dimensional stereo signal and create a huge 3-dimensional like soundstage using all 9.1 speakers. It never sounds like artificial surround sound such as what Dolby and DTX tries to present. I’m loving the difference actual height speakers make to the soundstage and cannot wait to hear what some actual music and movies will sound like via discs encoded with the Auro-3D codec. Yes, I believe Auro-3D has the potential to sound as good as Dolby Atmos or DTS: X or better with discs encoded with these formats.

By the way, I up-mix my 4.0 & 5.1 discs too, for the better sound experience.

 

[jimfisheye]

Looks like another extended surround format like Atmos or DTS-X that adds height channels to 5.1 or 7.1 and then additional discrete "object" channels. I believe it's 26 object channels if the wiki is correct. Not sure if the height channels are .2 or .4

So maybe only a 40 or so channel surround system vs Atmos 60 some channels. While more speakers are always better IMHO and this would be great fun to mix for... Same comment as for Atmos or DTS-X: Are we really going to get people to buy tickets to theater surround sound audio events? Are a few home users really going to install 30 - 60 speaker surround systems? Is anyone really going to make mixes for such a system? Sure, there are already a few. But, you know, we barely have support and available mixes for 5.1 at present. Then there's the part about proper system setup. Or people getting suckered into buying those gimmicky soundbars and such and not even getting 'meat n' potatoes' surround.

I like seeing the innovation. Feels like skipping over the part where basic surround (5.1 or 7.1) finally becomes mainstream to the point where all major label and most independent releases are also produced for surround. Again, same comment as for Atmos or DTS-X there.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Hi Jim!

Here’s the Auro 3-D Setup Guide that should explain what your looking for.

 

[jimfisheye]

What I'm interested in is if these formats will settle down and people will actually mix for them!
Again, I am aware of a handful of mixes. I'm assuming those I've heard mentioned are truly 7.2.4.64 or 13.4 (depending on the extended format) and not just upmixed into the format and/or simply compatible with the format (ie. any lossless encoding/decoding employed). I don't know and I have yet to buy tickets to hear something in an Atmos/dts-x/Auro-3D theater (which I have not heard or seen anything near me available yet).

What I don't like seeing is the immediate swan dive into cheapness that seems to tag along with these write ups. "Compatible with soundbar junk at Worst Purchase!" "Listen to your stereo mix CD's like never before!". So... are we going to see receivers with suck buttons plastering awkward reverbs over stereo mixes again like the early days of 5.1 receivers? Or settings to upmix stereo or 4.0 or 5.1 into this?

Don't get me wrong. This is fantastic creative stuff here! My response when someone suggests building a surround system with 64 speakers is "hell yeah!". I'd love to set it up and start making some mixes! But... don't we have a little more ground to cover getting everyone into 5.1 first? Maybe make more 5.1 mixes available? Get people steered away from the Worst Purchase soundbar crap and actually listening to actual surround with actual speakers? Or even just getting to the basics of lossless audio directed 1:1 to the speaker array it was mixed on and intended to be heard on. No upmixing stereo to surround or surround to higher speaker count surround. No suck buttons with the fake reverbs and all that. Some of the real gimmicky stuff out there... mono on a proper system is more immersive!

It would be sad if this stuff just flew over everyone's heads (sorry) and only got used for movie soundtracks.

Or have I been hiding in my cave too long and everyone has 5.1 in their homes and it's all old hat? There's a 5.1 HD flac download for nearly every album released already and people are hungry for improved systems? Not even close, right?

See what I'm saying? These systems sound like the best idea I've heard all week! But here we are struggling to even get 4.0 or 5.1 mixes intact in a lossless HD format and sometimes there's still no surround mix of any kind released at all.

Anyway... 3 competing 3D surround systems fighting it out now! Heh. So let's get some true 3D mixes then! Music mixes! Not movie soundtracks please.

Dark Side of the Moon lured me into surround in the first place. Motion in stereo was great but as soon as I became aware of the existence of surround and had an album such as that enticing me, I was on a mission to set up for hearing it. We need something compelling like that for 3D mixes.

 

[Spock]

For stereo music I prefer use of the "11 channel Stereo" setting, sounds better than the Dolby and dts upmixers. Really fills the room and increase the dynamics and "punch".

 

[jimfisheye]

Triggered...

 

[ted_b]

I realize this is an old thread but didn't want to start a new one, so here goes:
I am ripping some of my Blurays in anticipation of the completion of my new home's audio room build (read: I have no music system up and running yet, as per other threads of mine). The MakeMKV approach is working fine for Atmos (at least the metadata in things like MediaInfo shows Atmos layers perserved). However, the Auro-3D layer (which is usually 9 channels or more) is nowhere to be found. One other forum's thread seems to say that it is hidden in a PCM container/wrapper inside the DTS-HD-MA layer?

Does anyone who does file-based playback have success with preserving the Auro-3D layer. For example, recent 2L blurays? Thx
Ted

 

[bracelis]

This is from an Auro3d disc that I ripped using MakeMKV. The *.m2ts files files show as format="DTS XLL (Stream Extension)" in MediaInfo.
And on the receiver (Denon/Marantz), it shows Signal = "Auro3D/DTS-HD Master"

MediaInfo:

Audio
ID :	4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID :	1 (0x1)
Format :	DTS XLL
Format/Info :	Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name :	DTS-HD Master Audio
Muxing mode :	Stream extension
Codec ID :	134
Duration :	6 min 55 s
Bit rate mode :	Variable
Channel(s) :	6 channels

For comparison, this one is DTS-X (also a *.mt2s file from a disc ripped using MakeMKV).

Audio #1
ID :	4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID :	1 (0x1)
Format :	DTS XLL X
Format/Info :	Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name :	DTS-HD Master Audio
Muxing mode :	Stream extension
Codec ID :	134
Duration :	1 min 59 s
Bit rate mode :	Variable
Channel(s) :	Object Based
Channel layout :	Object Based

 

[humprof]

A question for those of you with Auro-3D capable receivers: if you were buying an AVR today, would you pay extra for it?

I ask because I'm trying to upgrade to a receiver that will power a 5.1.4 system (my current receiver maxes out at 5.1.2).

It seems to me that Dolby has won the Atmos vs. Auro-3D competition, and I have maybe half a dozen BDAs that feature an Auro-3D mix but no Atmos. The cheapest 9.2 AVR I've found that can handle both formats is a refurbished Denon X4500H (next cheapest: Marantz SR-7013) at Accessories4Less--but even the Denon is still $200 more than a refurbished Marantz SR-6013, which is Atmos only.

I should add that I don't care about video capabilities at all--just audio. (For reasons of space, I can only attach a 24" inch monitor anyway.)