Billy Joel's "52nd Street" 40th Anniversary Limited Edition Coming in Oct. '18

[4-earredwonder]

That's funny because mine was shipped from California...what a small world...I once said I would never buy another Silverline because of the From The Front Row Series...those were the very worst discs I have ever purchased...

There's about 3 dozen [maybe more] Silverline Discs I love and am 'proud' to have in my collection. It's a pity their downfall was attempting to up mix a lot of those Sanctuary Records Stereo titles and pawn them off as 5.1. But some of their DVD~As are exquisite.

If you play the up mixed Stereo Titles in Hi Res DVD~A 2.0, you'll find that a lot of them ain't really that bad. And for the asking price, cheaper than a Hi Res Stereo download.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I remember posting a hunch, at the time, that the Dylan double live set spelled the death of AF's MC program. Sorry that came true. I did pick up a copy for $25. I hope that helps Marshall, somehow. He sure did a wonderful thing for us all.

That and satisfying a Board of Directors and accountants whose bottom line was PROFIT .........NOT ART!

And yes, Marshall did more than a wonderful thing. He exhumed all those musty SURROUND masters from their nascent tombs....and started a mini revolution!

In the Wee small hours I played the Chase two~fer QUAD SACD and turned up the volume considerably and for 70's recordings I was blown away by not only the sheer energy of the band but the gorgeous 360 discrete sounds enveloping me.

 

[Scott65]

"..i can see by what you posted
that you come from Allentown.."

isn't it remarkable there can be 6 different SACD releases of 52nd Street (1999=Sony US Stereo, 2001=Sony US MultiCh Single Layer, 2001=Sony Europe MultiCh Single Layer, 2001=Sony Japan MultiCh Single Layer, 2012=MFSL, 2018=Sony Japan MultiCh Hybrid 7" packaging) and yet you Can't Buy A Steely Dan Quad Thrill in New York City no more..

Sony (or whoever owns the rights) needs to be like Jack...go back (to the quad mixes) and do it (release) again...

 

[milt]

When you close the doors you dispense the inventory to outlets at below value....there have been a lot of sales on Audio Fidelity titles this last year...there is a title that IMO is a great investment if you buy multiple copies and keep it for a few years...this one...that sold for over twice that amount and Dylan's music will always have value...

Clint, you sly Devil.
I bought that one immediately when AF offered their close-out stock.
It's brilliant.

 

[olgitnorm]

The first version in surround is very discrete. On par with the EJ mixes.

I can't imagine they would do a new 5.1 mix for this disc. When has Sony Japan ever done that?

According to the information on the sleeve of this new version the 5.1 surround sound mix is produced by Phil Ramon and mixed by Frank Filpetti at Sony Studios, NYC.
I don't have any of the previous releases so cannot compare but perhaps those of you who do can check.

 

[Mesozoic Mike]

Just received today. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, but these non-standardized packaging schemes are killing me when it comes to storage.

 

[sjcorne]

To clarify, the sound coming out of all my speakers is very powerful, nothing weak in front 3 or 2 rears. When I sit and listen I just hear a room filling stereo, obviously better than stereo. Do I hear, a sax solo separate, a guitar solo separate, drums mixed between speakers, any type of rhythm section moving around, NO, NONE OF THAT, and vocals through out are locked dead center.
At this point in my surround listening experience I am confident in what I heard, but of course if somebody has the same new disc I am welcome to being wrong.

I had been meaning to investigate this back when you first posted and got sidetracked. @marpow- not slighting you at the least, sounds like your system is a lot higher-end than mine and I know from your posts you're a careful listener. Who knows, maybe something did actually go wrong with this Japan reissue?

My recollection of both BJ 5.1's by Frank Fillipetti is that they are discrete, but more on the conservative side when it comes to use of the rears. Similar style to the James Taylor 5.1 SACDs also from Sony. So I just took a quick look on the PC to refresh my memory.

Some general observations:

• BJ's vocal is completely isolated in the center, with some doubled lines through phantom center and some in the rears
• Everything is generally "blended"- like instruments in the front reflect in the rears, and vice versa. But if you're sitting in the right spot you can ascertain some discrete information
  • "Big Shot"- sax in the rears
  • "My Life"- some acoustic guitar strumming and backing vocals in the rears ("I never said you had to...")
  • "Zanzibar"- some electric guitar in the rears over the chorus ("I've got the old man's car..." DA DA DA)
  • "Stiletto"- organ in the rears, electric guitar over the chorus
  • "Rosalinda's Eyes"- some doubled harmony vocal differences front and rear ("I can always find my cuban skies")

All in all it is actually a pretty conservative mix, more on the subtle side surround-wise. My favorite aspect of it (same with The Stranger) is the way the vocal mix is deconstructed in surround: the harmony line is generally placed in the stereo phantom center over the dry lead in the center channel. Sometimes another doubled line may find it's way into the rears. You can really hear the effect on the title track of The Stranger ("don't be afraid to try again...") or the aforementioned "Rosalinda's Eyes".

But put this on after Streetlife Serenade and you might be kind of underwhelmed! Maybe all those old Columbia quads resurrected by AF and DV have desensitized us to these more subtle surround mixes...

Man, I wish they tackled the rest of the catalog...

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I recently listened to the "old issue" and it still remains a favorite...a lot of it involves the content...for me that is everything and the fidelity and surround aspects are just bonus items...the one thing I like about this mix is the vocal separation..it's the way I like a surround mix to be presented...and sjcorne nailed it...it's like the James Taylor mixes...which I love as well...

Now from a technical standpoint...Streetlife Serenade checks most of the surround mix checklist...EXCEPT...the content just isn't anywhere near 52nd Street...I do like several songs and have "warmed" up to the album in general...but it will never equal 52nd Street...and when I listen to 52nd Street I don't get caught up in the surround mix...I just bask in the music itself..

 

[Franklin]

I gather Streetlife is considered one of his more lightweight albums (even by Joel himself, IIRC) but personally I prefer it to 52nd Street as an album let alone a surround mix. As for 52nd Street, IIRC, it didn't sound as discrete to me as The Stranger.

 

[marpow]

I had been meaning to investigate this back when you first posted and got sidetracked. @marpow- not slighting you at the least, sounds like your system is a lot higher-end than mine and I know from your posts you're a careful listener. Who knows, maybe something did actually go wrong with this Japan reissue?

My recollection of both BJ 5.1's by Frank Fillipetti is that they are discrete, but more on the conservative side when it comes to use of the rears. Similar style to the James Taylor 5.1 SACDs also from Sony. So I just took a quick look on the PC to refresh my memory.

Some general observations:

• BJ's vocal is completely isolated in the center, with some doubled lines through phantom center and some in the rears
• Everything is generally "blended"- like instruments in the front reflect in the rears, and vice versa. But if you're sitting in the right spot you can ascertain some discrete information
  • "Big Shot"- sax in the rears
  • "My Life"- some acoustic guitar strumming and backing vocals in the rears ("I never said you had to...")
  • "Zanzibar"- some electric guitar in the rears over the chorus ("I've got the old man's car..." DA DA DA)
  • "Stiletto"- organ in the rears, electric guitar over the chorus
  • "Rosalinda's Eyes"- some doubled harmony vocal differences front and rear ("I can always find my cuban skies")

All in all it is actually a pretty conservative mix, more on the subtle side surround-wise. My favorite aspect of it (same with The Stranger) is the way the vocal mix is deconstructed in surround: the harmony line is generally placed in the stereo phantom center over the dry lead in the center channel. Sometimes another doubled line may find it's way into the rears. You can really hear the effect on the title track of The Stranger ("don't be afraid to try again...") or the aforementioned "Rosalinda's Eyes".

But put this on after Streetlife Serenade and you might be kind of underwhelmed! Maybe all those old Columbia quads resurrected by AF and DV have desensitized us to these more subtle surround mixes...

Man, I wish they did they tackled the rest of the catalog...

I agree with you, however your observations to me are a buried sound in the rears, meaning they are there in the rears but washed out so that you have to listen really hard as the fronts are the main actors. For me when listening to surround I want all the speakers to be used and equal but yet have there own individual functions, if that makes sense.
I hope more people listen to the old issue that I do not have and I also hope people buy and listen to the new, then we can get a better consensus to my opinion as being the same or different than others.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I hope more people listen to the old issue that I do not have and I also hope people buy and listen to the new, then we can get a better consensus to my opinion as being the same or different than others.

In the event that nobody buys both, maybe two rips would suffice? And a JonUrban type can analyze?
For educational purposes, mind you... Or at least rips and post of the screenshots from Audacity or something like that?

 

[marpow]

In the event that nobody buys both, maybe two rips would suffice? And a JonUrban type can analyze?
For educational purposes, mind you... Or at least rips and post of the screenshots from Audacity or something like that?

Yes, educational only. God forbid we stop listening and start looking.

 

[Strilo]

Just received today. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, but these non-standardized packaging schemes are killing me when it comes to storage.

I hear you. I've come up with a sort-of solution that works for me. Most of these weird packaging schemes seem to be for albums I already had on CD. So I've bought a bunch of the double CD jewel cases from Amazon and I transfer all the CD packaging over to the double jewel case and add the new hi res audio disc. I've done this with dozens of albums.

 

[fredblue]

Yes, educational only. God forbid we stop listening and start looking.

tbh i don't get hung up on waveforms and all that kershizzle.. but sometimes stuff you suspect with your ears may be duff can be confirmed either way with a wee waveform, imho.

i guess you could say they are a tool some folk choose to have in their audio 'tool belt'? having a gawp at waveforms is amongst other potentially useful computer-y things I now find myself doing on occasion. hand on heart I used to scoff at a lot of it before I started learning about & using that stuff as an adjunct to careful listening with as few outside distractions as possible

 

[fredblue]

ps. i'd briefly like to add, not being a killer of buzzes but until we have some A-B comparison info on the old 52nd St 5.1 Vs this new one, we just don't know for sure if the new SACD has the same 5.1 mix and mastering as the old 5.1 SACD.. waveforms may or may not be required but once we hear from a QQ member who has both the old and new 5.1 discs, from there, imho, all things will flow and speculation can take a back seat

 

[JonUrban]

..... And a JonUrban type can analyze?.......

This "JonUrban Type" just got his SACD!!

Again, CDJapan packing and shipping it TOP NOTCH. Best around, IMHO.

So, waveforms and opinions will follow soon:

 

[JonUrban]

I went ahead and ripped (using the Oppo sacd_extract.exe) both the original Sony US SACD and this new SACD from Japan, just to be sure I was comparing raw rips from both discs.

I have to say after listening to isolated sections and channels of this material that the mixes are the same. The mastering sounds the same (to me), and we're pretty much looking at the same musical experience from both SACDs.

For the wav file view fans, here's a look at "My Life" in Sound Forge. Top is the new, bottom is the old:

 

[Clint Eastwood]

ps. i'd briefly like to add, not being a killer of buzzes but until we have some A-B comparison info on the old 52nd St 5.1 Vs this new one, we just don't know for sure if the new SACD has the same 5.1 mix and mastering as the old 5.1 SACD.. waveforms may or may not be required but once we hear from a QQ member who has both the old and new 5.1 discs, from there, imho, all things will flow and speculation can take a back seat

I can answer one of those questions....the mastering for the new one was done in 2011...which is after the old one was released..there are 2 explanations why the mastering sounds the same...one explanation is that Ted Jensen is credited with the original(old)mastering and also in the "advertised" 2011 mastering...so if this is true he did both versions which is why they sound alike....another "out of the box" explanation is that the advertised mastering is from 2001 not 2011...a one digit mistake was made..now this would be unusual for a Japanese product to make such a mistake...but it could happen...

 

[4-earredwonder]

This "JonUrban Type" [/I][/B]just got his SACD!!

Again, CDJapan packing and shipping it TOP NOTCH. Best around, IMHO.

So, waveforms and opinions will follow soon:

View attachment 36192

View attachment 36191

I sure that statement "Jon Urban Type" was just a TYPO because there's only ONE Jon Urban!

And He's THE MAN! A Kinetic~CUT above the Rest!

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I sure that statement "Jon Urban Type" was just a TYPO because there's only ONE Jon Urban!

And He's THE MAN!

+1...but I think he did that so he wouldn't go 3rd person on us...look what it's done to Gos