DTS-CD Bluray-player not supposed to support DVDa - still plays them?

[Ninecats]

Hi! My old DVDa-recorder gave in the other day, and before I went out for a new one I tried my DVDa-records on my bluray-player just for fun, even though it's NOT supposed to support DVDA:s. Suprisingly, it does. The titles I've tried so far are a couple of Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson-discs, all played PCM (2,3mbps) and 5.1 (1,5mbps) without any problem.

The player is a Sony BDP S5500, I emailed Sony but they had no clue. Could it be that it is reading the signals at a lower mbps, or somehow converts the signal in another way? Or is it Stevens particular encoding the key here? *Confused*

Best
Ninecats

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Hi, a bd player should play the dvd-v part for sure, so PCM stereo and 5.1 DTS.

Which streams does it play back?

 

[JanBakker]

Hi! My old DVDa-recorder gave in the other day, and before I went out for a new one I tried my DVDa-records on my bluray-player just for fun, even though it's NOT supposed to support DVDA:s. Suprisingly, it does. The titles I've tried so far are a couple of Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson-discs, all played PCM (2,3mbps) and 5.1 (1,5mbps) without any problem.

The player is a Sony BDP S5500, I emailed Sony but they had no clue. Could it be that it is reading the signals at a lower mbps, or somehow converts the signal in another way? Or is it Stevens particular encoding the key here? *Confused*

Best
Ninecats

With 1,5mbps it's certainly not the mlp layer so I guess it's playing the dts part of the discs.

 

[Ninecats]

Robert van Diggele: in PCM it's around 2,3 mbps, in 5.1 DTS it's 1,5mbps

JanBakker: Aha, yeah I suppose you're right. Not a big brain on technical data: what should the mpbs be if played its full scale in 5.1 in a system that allows it?

 

[JanBakker]

Robert van Diggele: in PCM it's around 2,3 mbps, in 5.1 DTS it's 1,5mbps

JanBakker: Aha, yeah I suppose you're right. Not a big brain on technical data: what should the mpbs be if played its full scale in 5.1 in a system that allows it?

Pff, good question, converted to flac they are around 8mbps when I play them in Foobar (96khz that is).

 

[Ninecats]

Ok, my playback shows 48khz. Anyway, thanks for you quick answers guys. I don't know if it is me now knowing it, but I don't experience the same sonical range in some songs. I need to get either a better Bluray-player or another DVDA-player.

 

[JanBakker]

Pff, good question, converted to flac they are around 8mbps when I play them in Foobar (96khz that is).

This is what Foobar says about 96khz mlp

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Ok, my playback shows 48khz. Anyway, thanks for you quick answers guys. I don't know if it is me now knowing it, but I don't experience the same sonical range in some songs. I need to get either a better Bluray-player or another DVDA-player.

when you go the blu ray player route, make sure you get one with dvd-a playback.

If I rememerb correctly the earlier dvda titles of PT have standard DTS. Only the latter and the SW discs have DTS 96/24. To my ears it is hard to hear a difference between 96/24 PCM and DTS 96/24. PCM and standard DTS is a different story in favour of the PCM.

 

[0tto]

what should the mpbs be if played its full scale in 5.1 in a system that allows it?


I don't know if it is me now knowing it, but I don't experience the same sonical range in some songs.

6 channel at 96/24 PCM is equal about 13mbps
data bandwidth through lazer pick up from disc surface is limited to 9mbps, thus MLP (PPCM) lossless compression
was invented to overcome this issue.


as for lossy DTS vs. lossless PCM, there are significant differences between both, albeit for type of music such like PT,
where mainly in use electrical instruments with artificially created sound, it's not as much critical. mostly drawback of lossy
format can be noticed when not electrical instruments and voices prevails in recording.

 

[Ninecats]

Thanks for the answers.

I read on several places that analog 5.1-out from the dvda-player to the 5.1-analog-in on the reveiver is the way to go if you wanna keep a higher resolution signal - correct? Else its just DTS?

What about HDMI - wouldn't that preserve the higher resolution signal? Given that the player actually supports DVDA that is.

Best
Ninecats

 

[JanBakker]

Thanks for the answers.

I read on several places that analog 5.1-out from the dvda-player to the 5.1-analog-in on the reveiver is the way to go if you wanna keep a higher resolution signal - correct? Else its just DTS?

What about HDMI - wouldn't that preserve the higher resolution signal? Given that the player actually supports DVDA that is.



Best
Ninecats

Yes I have my player connected with hdmi and it supports all formats.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Thanks for the answers.

I read on several places that analog 5.1-out from the dvda-player to the 5.1-analog-in on the reveiver is the way to go if you wanna keep a higher resolution signal - correct? Else its just DTS?

What about HDMI - wouldn't that preserve the higher resolution signal? Given that the player actually supports DVDA that is.

Best
Ninecats

as Jan said, it does.

It is all a matter of where you want the digital-to-analog take place. When you connect your player via analog to a receiver or amp, the player will do the conversion to analog.

When you connect with HDMI you let the receiver do the conversion. Depending on ghe setting sof both the player and receiver you can either bitstream to the receiver (sending the signal as MLP, TrueHD, DTSHD, etc) or as LPCM (player converts from MLP, TrueHD,DTSHD to LPCM, receiver converts from LPCM to analog).

 

[Ninecats]

Aye, so I'll go for an HDMI compatible player, else it will work just as fine if it's got 5.1 analog out? Basically, the only difference is where the conversion takes place?

I don't follow when it comes to transport (bit vs LPCM), basically, is that two different ways the signal travels? Is any of them lossy? Forgive me for being a bit slow but this is the best answers I've got so far on this

 

[GOS]

For the record, I've had both setups. I've gone the 5.1 analog outs and I currently have stuck with a simple HDMI for a single cable. My ears can't tell the difference. They both sound amazing...so for me...the nod goes to HDMI.

What's that you say? What? Oh, I'm 52 and have old ears? Well yeah...there is that.

 

[Ninecats]

Not trying to make this my personal buyer thread, but you guys possess such great knowledge so I figure I just post some players that I can come over fairly cheap, please tell if you have any opinions. I need something "workable" until I get a DVDA/SACD compatible bluray player.

NAD T533 (5.1 out analog)
Cambridge Azur 540D (5.1 out analog)*
Sheerwood SD 860 (5.1 analog out)

*Apparently the V2 edition did NOT have support for DVDA, which is weird to me.

 

[quadsearcher]

I looked up the Cambridge because I'd read some of them are rebadged Oppos, not this one I guess. It does play DVD-Audio discs but according to this http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/cambridge_audio_azur_540d.htm it does not play DTS through the audio outs (need a lightpipe connected to a receiver with a dts decoder). Some discs only have DTS or DD for surround.

Looks like the NAD has no dts decoder either.

The Sherwood does SACD as well! I don't know if it has DTS output on analog, but somewhat likely.

I went through a few older used players, Panasonic and Sony, and either they were clumsy to use (lightpipe) or had problems with some discs. Finally got an Oppo 980 well under $200 shipped, very convenient and played every disc I threw at it. Bought an Oppo 93 when they came out because I wanted BluRay although I don't like that format as much, too slow to read and harder to use without a monitor. The 93 easily plays any shiny disc. I'm not sure what's improved about the 103. You might hear it a lot around here, but Oppos are great, and well worth spending a bit more at first instead of trying to do it on the cheap (for me at least).

 

[fredblue]

Cambridge Audio denied time and again their DVD players and BDP's were rebadged Oppo's..
but from reports of people who have stripped down, say, both the Oppo BDP-93 and the CA 651BD (latter of the two I own, done a fair bit of research into fwiw and is a great piece of kit, literally plays every single surround/Hi-Res thing I throw at it, it doesn't have streaming capability but one with the original firmware will play ISO's which I have found very handy)... the similarities wrt to chipsets and build etc between the two were said to be striking to say the least. If you save up/hold out (or whatever your situation is right now) for a CA Azur BDP or Oppo Blu-ray player you won't go far wrong imho, they are the bee's knees, the dogs' danglies, the cream of the crop, the tip of the top.. You get the picture!

 

[Ninecats]

Regarding the DTS signal I found this in the user manual for CA 540D: " A DTS encoded disc will only output the DTS soundtrack through the digital outputs for external decoding."

Hmm, so DTS going out from the digital output means it can't be 5.1? Do I need another external decoder on top of my receiver (I was under impression that most modern receivers fixed this)? Doesn't analog 5.1 supports all signals? So what is the analoge supporting, lossless pcm but no dts?

 

[quadsearcher]

I think it is like my old Panasonic. Discs that included DVDA played through analog outs, discs that had DTS (but not DVDA) did not. I didn't have a modern receiver at the time so got a used one with optical and coax inputs. Using the optical connection worked fine for surround but I found it clumsy (it was an extra step).

Modern universal players play every disc stream through analog (if the unit has a set of RCAs), at least two of the units above are older models and did need a decoder [found inside receivers of the time, not a separate unit]. It's just that I needed a fiber optic cable (or digital coax) to hook it up, besides the normal RCA cords. To muck this up a bit, optical is not capable of full-bandwidth DVDA (in retail formats) so for me without an HDMI receiver, a simple set of RCA cords and a player that plays any format through analog is the most efficient way.

 

[Ninecats]

Hm, one more thought: doesn't most DVDA discs play lossless through analog 5.1? I mean, are there DVDAs with DTS only?

Further, if the discs always have MLP, wouldn't I be safe with a DVDA-player with analog 5.1 regardless if it doesn't support DTS?