Futzing with "IN SEARCH OF THE LOST CHORD" 5.1 Mix

[ar surround]

I started playing around with Ride My See-Saw (RMSS) in Audacity. Please keep in mind that a month ago, all I could do is import a CD into iTunes, create a playlist, and burn it to a CD. So I'm new at this Audacity thing and know just enough to be dangerous.

What I've done so far is import the new stereo mix as the front channels along with the surround channels of the 5.1 mix. I also raised the levels of the surrounds by +3dB. The resulting mix is much more satisfying than the debacle on the 5.1. I couldn't detect any problems with syncing of the fronts and surrounds. Some issues I need to resolve:

- I believe that the surrounds still need about +2 to +3dB boost relative to the fronts.
- The overall volume levels need to be reduced perhaps -6dB to correspond to the rest of the 5.1 mix. I.e. Dr. Livingston sounds too low in volume compared to RMSS.

I'm also toying with pulling in the center channel from the 5.1 mix to see if I can make the guitars (if they or anything else are actually in the center) more prominent as they have always been too reticent for my tastes.

I'll play with this some more and then post the results and some Audacity screen shots when I'm happy with it. Then it is on to Voices In The Sky. But I fear that by the time I am done futzing with this album I will never want to hear it ever again!

 

[ar surround]

This is what I've settled on after seven trials at a modified 5.1 mix of Ride My See-Saw:

Here is original new stereo mix front channels followed by the center, LFE and surrounds from the 5.1 mix imported into Audacity:

The modified mix as shown below consists of:
- The two front channels from the new stereo mix attenuated by -6dB
- The center channel from the 5.1 mix attenuated by -3dB but also mixed into the two surround channels. This brings out the guitar a bit more yet doesn't make the mix too rear-centric. Attempts to increase the center channel to bring out the guitar gave the mix an artificial sound, so I dispensed with that route.
- The surrounds from the 5.1 mix boosted by +3dB

I believe that the modified 5.1 mix sounds much better than the stock 5.1 mix. But my druthers is still playing the new stereo mix in faux surround using Logic7. The fidelity of the lossless stereo is better and sounds so much smoother. And I can boost the guitar by increasing the center channel volume if desired. Oh, and the birds chirping in Departure still comes from behind even in faux 7.1.

 

[beerking]

Very interesting ar surround.

Now we don't want any bootlegs on ebay anytime soon!!

Just kidding.

 

[4-earredwonder]

So when can we expect an A R SURROUND 5.1 remix of In Search of the Lost Chord in LOSSLESS BD~A?

 

[ar surround]

So when can we expect an A R SURROUND 5.1 remaster of In Search of the Lost Chord in LOSSLESS BD~A? [/QUOTE]

LOL. After this, I might not listen to Ride My See-Saw for several of years!!!

 

[4-earredwonder]

One of my Major pet peeves, ar, is having to digitally alter a commercially released Surround Remix as I find the quality control of a lot of these 'remasters' to be lacking and something that should've been 'thought out' before that release reached the general public.

Raising the rears, center, etc. should not be a function of the buyer.

When I think of how many QUAD SACDs Dutton Vocalion has released in the past few years and not a one of them had to be 'physically altered' for human consumption, it's disgraceful how the majors get away with charging big bucks and then the disappointment sets in when it's either LOSSY or BOTCHED.

A practice, I'm afraid, will prevail unless we complain en masse and then, unfortunately, to have it fall on deaf ears is all the more infuriating. A NO WIN situation.

Perhaps a word to the wise: wait for the reviews to come out before purchasing.

 

[ar surround]

One of my Major pet peeves, ar, is having to digitally alter a commercially released Surround Remix as I find the quality control of a lot of these 'remasters' to be lacking and something that should've been 'thought out' before that release reached the general public.

What is even more discouraging, is that a rank amateur with no mixing experience (um, that would be me) can take a freeware program, with which he has played with for no more than a couple of hours, and come up with something worthwhile compared to the original product. Do these people actually listen to the final mix before it goes into production? Where's the QA/QC? It really would not have been that difficult to fix Ride My See-Saw.

Steven Wilson went out of his way to have Thick As A Brick redone after the original mastering got fucked up. We're not gonna see that with ISOTLC.

I'll tell you though, on the positive side I had a ball playing around with this remix in Audacity. And I got good exercise running up and down the stairs from the audio system in the basement to the computer on the second floor...seven trials equaled 14 flights of stairs. Now back to college football!

 

[4-earredwonder]

What is even more discouraging, is that a rank amateur with no mixing experience (um, that would be me) can take a freeware program, with which he has played with for no more than a couple of hours, and come up with something worthwhile compared to the original product. Do these people actually listen to the final mix before it goes into production? Where's the QA/QC? It really would not have been that difficult to fix Ride My See-Saw.

Steven Wilson went out of his way to have Thick As A Brick redone after the original mastering got fucked up. We're not gonna see that with ISOTLC.

I'll tell you though, on the positive side I had a ball playing around with this remix in Audacity. And I got good exercise running up and down the stairs from the audio system in the basement to the computer on the second floor...seven trials equaled 14 flights of stairs. Now back to college football!

AR, Steve Wilson is a perfectionist. He even convinced SONY who never did DVD~Audio to release those ELP remixes in LOSSLESS DVD~A 5.1. Too bad NO SUCH LUCK regarding the TULL remixes as the LOSSLESS Stereo remasters of those TULLS [at least on my system] blow away the LOSSY DTS 5.1, sonically.

Glad you got good exercise 'fixing' Ride My SeeSaw. If only JAKKO exercised more discretion in the ISotLC remixes! Wonder if any of the Moodies were involved in remixing decisions. My guess....Probably NOT!

 

[sjcorne]

Nice work on this! My only concern would be that the rears look a little too hot in your finished remix, almost like they may overpower the fronts and center.

Maybe one day when this title drops in price, I'll pick up a copy just to futz with it!

If you enjoyed this, here's some other titles that benefit from a little work on the user end:

• Neil Young- Harvest (some dispute this but front/rear swap on certain tracks seems right to me)
• Rob Thomas- Something To Be (very discrete but rears are too low)
• Police- Every Breath You Take...The Singles (rears too low)
• Ten Years After- A Space In Time (front/rear swap)
• Beatles- Sgt. Pepper (rears too low)
• Santana- Abraxas (treble cut, bass boost)
• Keane- Hopes & Fears (front/rear swap)
• Mahavishnu Orchestra- Birds Of Fire (swap left and right front)

...and finally: every single quad mix released with a fake center and sub channel- just delete them.

 

[JonUrban]

Nice work on this! My only concern would be that the rears look a little too hot in your finished remix, almost like they may overpower the fronts and center.

Maybe one day when this title drops in price, I'll pick up a copy just to futz with it!

If you enjoyed this, here's some other titles that benefit from a little work on the user end:

• Neil Young- Harvest (some dispute this but front/rear swap on certain tracks seems right to me)
• Rob Thomas- Something To Be (very discrete but rears are too low)
• Police- Every Breath You Take...The Singles (rears too low)
• Ten Years After- A Space In Time (front/rear swap)
• Beatles- Sgt. Pepper (rears too low)
• Santana- Abraxas (treble cut, bass boost)
• Keane- Hopes & Fears (front/rear swap)
• Mahavishnu Orchestra- Birds Of Fire (swap left and right front)

...and finally: every single quad mix released with a fake center and sub channel- just delete them.

James Taylor - October Road (SONY SACD) Rears need to be +3db at LEAST to even have them heard)

 

[JonUrban]

Good work, AR Surround. I will take a crack at this myself when I get the disc and some time.

Imagine what someone like QQ's "holland123" could do with this. You know it would out-shine the legit release. Same with the SPEC guys.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Good work, AR Surround. I will take a crack at this myself when I get the disc and some time.

Imagine what someone like QQ's "holland123" could do with this. You know it would out-shine the legit release. Same with the SPEC guys.

I think you should go FULL MONTY, Jon, with an all out DOLBY ATMOS remix! And send copies to each and every member of QQ as stocking stuffers.

BETTER YET:

 

[ar surround]

Nice work on this! My only concern would be that the rears look a little too hot in your finished remix, almost like they may overpower the fronts and center.

Maybe one day when this title drops in price, I'll pick up a copy just to futz with it!

If you enjoyed this, here's some other titles that benefit from a little work on the user end:

• Neil Young- Harvest (some dispute this but front/rear swap on certain tracks seems right to me)
• Rob Thomas- Something To Be (very discrete but rears are too low)
• Police- Every Breath You Take...The Singles (rears too low)
• Ten Years After- A Space In Time (front/rear swap)
• Beatles- Sgt. Pepper (rears too low)
• Santana- Abraxas (treble cut, bass boost)
• Keane- Hopes & Fears (front/rear swap)
• Mahavishnu Orchestra- Birds Of Fire (swap left and right front)

...and finally: every single quad mix released with a fake center and sub channel- just delete them.

Yes, looking at the Audacity scans, I was very surprised to see how loud the surrounds are compared to the fronts/center because they don't sound that way on my system.

I had already fixed Harvest and A Space In Time before messing with ISOTLC.

 

[skherbeck]

Doing some futzing myself, I'm finding this doesn't sound so bad... just messing with Departure/Ride My See-Saw... I wanted to bring out the buried lead guitar and improve the muffled sound... added some treble to the LF & RF channels, raised the center +4dB, raised the rears +5dB, and individually raised the the lead guitar bits in the center channel +2-4dB depending on what sounded good.

I hate spending $50 and having to do a bunch of work just to get something that sounds alright, but that's what happened with Jakko's Bill Bruford mixes, and I was eventually able (with some help from frogmort) to get something I liked. Maybe I'll try some of the other tunes on this album eventually. Here's my final waveforms: