Mcallister
500 Club - QQ All-Star
It threw a great center image for sure! Similar to how Eddie Vedders vocals are mixed on Hunger Strike.
HiRez Poll Guess Who, The - AMERICAN WOMAN & SHARE THE LAND [SACD]
- Thread starter rtbluray
- Start date
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Interesting observations - I just checked those three tracks against their counterparts on the Best Of The Guess Who AF SACD and Q8 transfers of the American Woman and Share The Land albums.
To my ears and eyes, "American Woman" and "No Time" have the same channel assignments on all three sources. However, something does appear to be different with "Do You Miss Me Darling" on the new D-V release - I'm not entirely sure if it's a channel swap or just a difference in the individual volume of each channel.
"No Time" (Top=DV, Middle=AF, Bottom=Q8):
"American Woman" (Top=DV, Middle=AF, Bottom=Q8):
"Do You Miss Me Darling" (Top=DV, Middle=AF, Bottom=Q8):
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I am so glad we have people here with earlier versions to compare with these SACDs. I just assume the mixes are just oddball quad mixes from the early 70s.
To correct "Do You Miss Me Darling" do I rotate everything 90 degrees clockwise?
they don't need altering, there's nothing wrong with the channel assignments on this disc.
no channel swaps necessary.
look how dynamic the new disc is!
we're talking AF levels and on some tracks even better!!
Thanks for the info. The quality is definitely amazing. To get these Guess Who quad albums almost brings a tear to my eyes when I listen to them.
I grew up in their hometown of Winnipeg and bought their albums and singles as they were released but I never had anything quadraphonic.
Bring on Wheatfield Soul and Canned Wheat!
you're welcome!
bring 'em on for sure!
the sound on this disc is phenomenal!
tbh i was prepared for a bit of a "meh" moment because there'd been some negativity about some Guess Who Quad mixes over the years but really just the sound bursting out of the speakers totally took me by surprise! in a good way, it was fantastic --- nay majestic!!!
And I've also argued for years that the Q8 had a bad channel assignment and they copied it onto the Audio Fidelity disc, too! If you swap the right channels of "American Woman" on AF's Best of, the guitar solo pans around the room in a perfect circle.
As it stands, the solo pulsates because the sound is traveling BL ---> FL -------------> BR-------> FR in an "X" pattern.
If that's the way the mixer originally intended it to be, then I'll admit to being wrong.
However, once again, on the AF Best Of, swapping right channels on American Woman properly pairs up the conga, both guitars and the "thump" drum in a four-wall listening space with the guitar solo panning in a perfect circle. If THAT boys and girls, is simply coincidence, I'll vote for Trudeau in October.
Looking at the waveforms does not make this easily noticeable. I'll get some low-quality video of my Quad-oscilloscope tonight and I will literally show you what's going on.
As it stands, the solo pulsates because the sound is traveling BL ---> FL -------------> BR-------> FR in an "X" pattern.
If that's the way the mixer originally intended it to be, then I'll admit to being wrong.
However, once again, on the AF Best Of, swapping right channels on American Woman properly pairs up the conga, both guitars and the "thump" drum in a four-wall listening space with the guitar solo panning in a perfect circle. If THAT boys and girls, is simply coincidence, I'll vote for Trudeau in October.
Looking at the waveforms does not make this easily noticeable. I'll get some low-quality video of my Quad-oscilloscope tonight and I will literally show you what's going on.
And I've also argued for years that the Q8 had a bad channel assignment and they copied it onto the Audio Fidelity disc, too! If you swap the right channels of "American Woman" on AF's Best of, the guitar solo pans around the room in a perfect circle.
As it stands, the solo pulsates because the sound is traveling BL ---> FL -------------> BR-------> FR in an "X" pattern.
If that's the way the mixer originally intended it to be, then I'll admit to being wrong.
However, once again, on the AF Best Of, swapping right channels on American Woman properly pairs up the conga, both guitars and the "thump" drum in a four-wall listening space with the guitar solo panning in a perfect circle. If THAT boys and girls, is simply coincidence, I'll vote for Trudeau in October.
Looking at the waveforms does not make this easily noticeable. I'll get some low-quality video of my Quad-oscilloscope tonight and I will literally show you what's going on.
well i hear what you're saying of course but i don't know what else Vocalion could or should've done, they mapped it how the channels have been assigned forever and Michael Dutton obviously knows how to mix in surround as evidenced by the quality of his own multichannel mixes so i feel fairly confident he'd spot a potential channel screw up while remastering.. i'm the first one to nitpick but in this instance the Quads on this SACD sound way better than they have any right to and i don't care if i get berated for so-called stating the obvious, the sound here is miles better than the eight tracks and as those old Q8s are our only alternative for these Quads in complete form i'm settling for what's on the disc which to me is an out and out "10"
Agreed. The sound is lightyears ahead of anything we've had for decades. Thing is, Mr Dutton may not be as intimate with these albums as us fans are. For all we know, the channel assignment on the master tapes is wrong and nobody's questioned it. Like I said, Audio Fidelity made the same mistake on their SACD. Yet the panning on Bus Rider and Hang on to your Life pan properly. So maybe it was some RCA staffers error when they compiled the master Quad tape 50 years ago?
could well be.. in which case the SACD is 100% authentic to the mastertape! case closed!
could well be.. in which case the SACD is 100% authentic to the mastertape! case closed!
And that's fine. The Master Tape is flawed. These four songs on the SACD have a channel error:
American Woman
No Time
Talisman
Humpty's Blues / Epilogue / American Woman
Curiously enough, these four songs make up Track 1 of the Q8 which also features the SAME CHANNEL SWAP ERROR!!
Swapping the left or the right channels front to back on the Q8 lines up all the instruments and makes all the pans go in a circular motion.
I will concede, I was wrong on Do you Miss Me Darlin'. I just double checked it with my Share the Land Q8 and indeed, the piano strikes at the end bounce left to right.
I could swear they bounced front to rear though. My mistake on that one.
The remastering engineer goes by the information they have - which may notes and info on the box of tapes - as to the channel assignments.
At the end of the day, the goal is to transfer the music with the same channel assignments as the original mix.
As for this being a "stunning sounding release", to my ears it sounds somewhat dated.
But then again, we are talking about tapes from 40-50 years ago, and sometimes they hold up better than other times.....
The beauty of life in 2019 is that once we have the disc we can do whatever the hell we want to do with the audio once we rip it, so basically we do our own version for ourselves. The media is just a delivery device. Thanks q8
Regarding channel errors: I have No Time (Original Version) from the Q8 Canned Wheat. It sounds strange...as if the front/backs are reversed. But when I swap the fronts/backs it sounds equally strange, but maybe a tad stranger. Perhaps many of the mixes on these Guess Who quads are just plain weird.
Anyway, I will give you my expert opinion on the DV American Woman quad when Mrs. Surround finally releases it from its hidden location.
Anyway, I will give you my expert opinion
on the DV American Woman quad when Mrs. Surround finally releases it from its hidden location.
This is an interesting discussion... should engineers creating quad transfers attempt to stay as true to the original master as possible, or should they take the liberty of rearranging channels to make the mix sound the way they think it was intended to sound? I don't know. I don't care. I love this disc! It's become one of my favorites since it arrived, and sounds so much better than any conversions I've heard, as well as better than the corresponding tracks on the AF "Best Of" SACD.
Now my curiosity has gotten the better of me. I took tracks 1,2,3 & 9 and did a right channel swap. I'll do some A/B comparisons over the weekend.
I voted 10
Hearing many of these titles for the first time in Quad. Just love them.....for me, DV continues to knock these out of the park. My God, please keep pumping these types of titles out DV, I will open my moldy wallet every time.
Hearing many of these titles for the first time in Quad. Just love them.....for me, DV continues to knock these out of the park. My God, please keep pumping these types of titles out DV, I will open my moldy wallet every time.
Oh, and......I didn't even know that I would know the song "Share The Land". By title, I didn't recognize it.....but hot damn. What an amazing tune that I totally forgot about.
OK everyone. This is a poll thread that will (should) stand the test of time. Please, no bickering or name calling or any of that crap. Q-Eight has a theory and speaks with authority on what he's experienced in the past. fredblue is probably correct is stating that the master tape is represented exactly as DV received it by the SACD from Dutton-Vocalion.
Arguing and name calling will not change anything. Just like the DVD-A of "Harvest", some think it's messed up, some don't. Can we please leave it at that. You can mess around all you like with the audio on your PC's, and you could try it Q-Eights way to see if you agree, but let's not drag all of that into this poll thread. This thread concerns what was released. Noting that you think the channels are not proper is perfectly legit to post in a poll thread. Saying that you think the audio is mastered exactly as the master tape is also something legit to post in a poll thread.
Heated exchanges in ANY thread at QQ are not appreciated. The sad part about this is that I personally respect HIGHLY both QQ members here, and I totally understand feeling protective of each members opinion, and in fredblue's desire to protect the only label that is currently pumping out surround discs, which puts me in a tough spot. I do not "side" with anyone. I do appreciate the two opinions, you must believe that.
I will relate a story here from the AF days. Marshal sent me a test SACD-R of the Best of the Guess Who which I was thrilled to get and immediately ripped to a disc that I could play in my car. After listening to it on the way to work and back, I noticed that it was totally screwed up with regard to the channel assignments. I immediately email Marshall and he had his guys check and the master tape was indeed noted wrong, and the channels were in the wrong spot. I can search for the emails when I get a chance, but Marshall thanked me considerably, as that master was about to go to Austria for pressing. In effect, I saved AF from an embarrassing release. (The same thing happened to "The Collection", but I did not catch every error on that one)
So it's VERY easy to guess that the master is the issue, not the mastering.
So please - everyone get along. It would make me a lot happier if we did.
Arguing and name calling will not change anything. Just like the DVD-A of "Harvest", some think it's messed up, some don't. Can we please leave it at that. You can mess around all you like with the audio on your PC's, and you could try it Q-Eights way to see if you agree, but let's not drag all of that into this poll thread. This thread concerns what was released. Noting that you think the channels are not proper is perfectly legit to post in a poll thread. Saying that you think the audio is mastered exactly as the master tape is also something legit to post in a poll thread.
Heated exchanges in ANY thread at QQ are not appreciated. The sad part about this is that I personally respect HIGHLY both QQ members here, and I totally understand feeling protective of each members opinion, and in fredblue's desire to protect the only label that is currently pumping out surround discs, which puts me in a tough spot. I do not "side" with anyone. I do appreciate the two opinions, you must believe that.
I will relate a story here from the AF days. Marshal sent me a test SACD-R of the Best of the Guess Who which I was thrilled to get and immediately ripped to a disc that I could play in my car. After listening to it on the way to work and back, I noticed that it was totally screwed up with regard to the channel assignments. I immediately email Marshall and he had his guys check and the master tape was indeed noted wrong, and the channels were in the wrong spot. I can search for the emails when I get a chance, but Marshall thanked me considerably, as that master was about to go to Austria for pressing. In effect, I saved AF from an embarrassing release. (The same thing happened to "The Collection", but I did not catch every error on that one)
So it's VERY easy to guess that the master is the issue, not the mastering.
So please - everyone get along. It would make me a lot happier if we did.
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