HELP!!!!! - I need reviews of Surround Master center channel quality - urgently

[chucky3042]

This is a good point, and worth noting the distinction of music listening vs movie listening. As mention previously in this thread, I DO prefer the center channel, as with more listeners, especially with home projection or the cinema, it can be very common to sit far more off axis from the ideal sweet spot listening area. I went for years w/o a center and always lamented it, but that was the early 80s, again primarily when listening to movies. Where as for my music listening, most of the time I'm sitting in my preferred listening spot, where the center channel is often more ..moot.

If you are sitting in the "sweet spot" and you have good speakers.....(electrostatic naturally!) you will be totally convinced the center is there. In fact on really good speakers (My Nakamichi Dragon electrostatics) you will be convinced the sound is not coming from the left or right speaker, it just becomes sound appearing out of thin air.

We have patented an approach that gets rid of the center channel, that in fact created a time delay equaliser so the time arrival of the left and right speaker is the same in all positions of the room. When this is done the central vocalist is in fact stable for all positions of the room....Dwight and Rustyandi have heard it. Originally we called the technique "total perspective" now we call it SST (Sweet Spot Technology ). I still prefer the old name but what do I know against our marketing geniuses.

The trick resides in both the amplifier and the speakers, that's why our Y electrostatic speakers look so weird. Interesting point, to get this dispersed sweet spot you need highly directional speakers- not omni as everyone has been thinking for years!

The inner panels are fired first, creating a time advanced image. It works because of the Hass effect 12 db rule (I will explain if asked).

See actual system below........look no friggin center!!!

Oh for shits and giggles, here is a shot of my Nakamichi Dragon electrostatics (only 140 ever made - I designed them, then they effectively went broke and now re-badge junk)

Here is a web link for more of the sad story.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...e-and-fortune-nakamichi-dragon-electrostatic/

I'm not bitter, just twisted

regards

Chucky

 

[Wunlow]

Thank you for the explanation of the SST tech. Would be very cool to hear first hand.

I'm sure many will be interested, and justifiably so. But given some may not be able to afford and/or want new amps and speakers, it IS appreciated that you still include a optional center out.

 

[vinylguy4]

Review of Surround Master Center Channel in QS mode

First, I usually use the Surround Master in 4.1 mode, haven't used the center
channel in quite a while. I have the QS+SQ Vinyl version of the SM.
IIRC the SQ mode should not be used with a center channel. So I'd rather
not change cables when switching from SQ to QS. Also the listening session
today confirmed my prior feelings about using the center with QS.

Center channel volume set the same as I use with all my digital media and I
don't feel the center overwhelms.
First I tested a couple stereo LPs in QS mode with and without the center.
Van Halen 5150, happend to find a quiex vinyl pressing today.
Eddie's guitar is usually mixed hard left. With the center
invoked, the guitar was just left of center. Without the center channel, guitar
was hard left. As with most of the rest of the material I played, most everthing
seemed to be focused toward the center. Kinda like the wide mono mixing.
Next was Champaign Woman In Flames. Got a minty copy on my recent visit to Seattle.
The first 3 songs on side 1 were focused mainly toward the center but the last song
was well spread across the front when using center channel. Without center, all songs spread
across the front from speaker to speaker.
Next was QS pressing of Rufus Rags to Rufus. Again, the sound seemed focused in the center
when center channel present. Without center channel, sound spread and got a much more emersive
quadraphonic experience.
Last was Steely Dan Countdown to Ecstasy, QS pressing. Same experience as the others.
The center of the sound field overwhelmed. Voices and other instruments well focused in the center.
For me to get a good front and back (and corners) balance, needed to run without the center
channel invoked.
I would think I need to redo all this with the center turned down to see if that would be better.
Anyway, that's what I have so far.

vinylguy4

 

[chucky3042]

Review of Surround Master Center Channel in QS mode

First, I usually use the Surround Master in 4.1 mode, haven't used the center
channel in quite a while. I have the QS+SQ Vinyl version of the SM.
IIRC the SQ mode should not be used with a center channel. So I'd rather
not change cables when switching from SQ to QS. Also the listening session
today confirmed my prior feelings about using the center with QS.

Center channel volume set the same as I use with all my digital media and I
don't feel the center overwhelms.
First I tested a couple stereo LPs in QS mode with and without the center.
Van Halen 5150, happend to find a quiex vinyl pressing today.
Eddie's guitar is usually mixed hard left. With the center
invoked, the guitar was just left of center. Without the center channel, guitar
was hard left. As with most of the rest of the material I played, most everthing
seemed to be focused toward the center. Kinda like the wide mono mixing.
Next was Champaign Woman In Flames. Got a minty copy on my recent visit to Seattle.
The first 3 songs on side 1 were focused mainly toward the center but the last song
was well spread across the front when using center channel. Without center, all songs spread
across the front from speaker to speaker.
Next was QS pressing of Rufus Rags to Rufus. Again, the sound seemed focused in the center
when center channel present. Without center channel, sound spread and got a much more emersive
quadraphonic experience.
Last was Steely Dan Countdown to Ecstasy, QS pressing. Same experience as the others.
The center of the sound field overwhelmed. Voices and other instruments well focused in the center.
For me to get a good front and back (and corners) balance, needed to run without the center
channel invoked.
I would think I need to redo all this with the center turned down to see if that would be better.
Anyway, that's what I have so far.

vinylguy4

Hi Vinylguy

Dumb question, when in 5.1 mode (center channel) you need to move the front left and front right outputs from the SM to the 5.1 positions on the back of the SM . Meaning do not use the 4 channel output?

Regards

Chucky

 

[vinylguy4]

Maybe that is my issue. I can move the cables and try again.
Did I remember correctly that SQ mode does not use center channel?
Can't use the 5.1 outputs for SQ mode?

 

[vinylguy4]

Please ignore all that rubish I posted earlier.
Chucky was correct, I had my front cables in the 4 channel slots.
Moved the front cables to the 5.1 front slots and kept the center connected.
Replayed Steely Dan Countdown to Ecstasy QS with volume same as before.
Again the center seemed to dominate the fronts. But the rears were much better in balance volume wise.
So I dropped the volume on the center channel by 3 dB, now that's the ticket.
Voices and drums still well focused in the center where appropriate. Now the
sound field well spread across the entire front. Rear volume now in proper balance with the fronts.
Replayed Van Halen 5150, still with the center dropped 3 dB and got good results.
Soundfield well spread across the front with Sammy well focused in the center.
Didn't seem to be much happening in the rears on this one but it's a stereo LP so that
can be expected.

I always sit in the sweet spot, so no need to get the extra center focus needed for off center seating.
Will need more extensive listening to see which I prefer, 4.1 or 5.1 for QS mode.

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Vinylguy4

Yes you can use the center channel with SQ.

 

[dwight]

Chucky, Old flame here, and the word exquisite is not too far flung to describe the center channel extraction that your SURROUND MASTER delivers. I use an Altec 802D compression driver and a 511 B Altec horn as the showcase for my center channel and it is thrilling to hear great and powerful voices isolated beautifully to finally emanate from that velvet power with pure three dimensional clarity. I cannot be separated from my SM, and I am stunned that one of the other big audio forums is clueless, no matter how many times they are informed about your important piece of audio mastery. Perhaps the following quote by the great philosopher Herbert Spencer explains it: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-----that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Dwight