How should I listen to Suzanne Ciani "LIVE Quadrophonic"?

[emh15206]

I just received "LIVE Quadrophonic" as a gift from my partner (number 139 of 227!). This incredible piece, which was made possible by the Buchla 227 quad output module, includes a custom quadrophonic hardware decoder that allows you to use a conventional turntable. According to the instructions, you plug the conventional two-channel turntable into your pre-amp, plug your pre-amp into the decoder, and plug the decoder into your quadrophonic audio receiver.

Here's the problem: I don't have a quadrophonic audio receiver. Go figure. Here's what I do have:

Turntable: Edwards Audio Apprentice TT1 mk2
Pre-Amp: Turntable Lab: Rolls VP 29.TTL
Audio Receiever: Denon S900W with five speakers, though the center channel is really only good for dialogue so I unplug when listening to music and will unplug when listening to this quadraphonic record. No sub-woofer.

Another post (https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/analog-discrete-to-hdmi.24175/) recommends using a Creative DTS-610 to convert the four audio signals to digital, then pass it to the receiver in 5.1 via HDMI or Optical.

What do you think? Am I understanding this correctly? Will this work such that I get a quadrophonic experience? I really don't want to listen to this in mutli-channel stereo....I want to experience it as it was intended!

Cross-posted at: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-should-i-listen-to-suzanne-ciani-live-quadrophonic
https://forum.audiogon.com/users/emh15206

 

[sjcorne]

Ok...so I assume that "quad module" it comes with has a two channel input and then a four channel output, as all quad matrix decoders do, correct?

You need to run the line out of your preamp into the 2 channel input (passing the stereo signal from the LP into the decoder), and then four channel output into one of the multichannel inputs of your receiver (this passes the decoded four channels into your receiver).

 

[emh15206]

I understand that part. The problem is that the denon s900w does not have multi channel inputs to my knowledge, only stereo rca, optical, and HDMI.

 

[jimfisheye]

Well, there are two parts to this.

1. Decoding that old encoded format that is encoded to two channels on the vinyl to derive the original 4 discrete channels of audio. (These decodes are not perfect FYI.)
2. Playing 4 (for quad) or 6 (for 5.1) channels of audio into a sound system.

#1 Can get hairy! It's analog equipment and there may be some fiddling involved to get the best results. This is the furthest thing from trivial too! Some hardware decoders only worked so well. There may be quality issues with the vinyl pressing that affect it. Lots of variables!

#2 is easier. Once you have multichannel audio (4 or 6 channels), you literally just feed that to 4 or 6 amp channels which are plugged into speakers. (Or plugged directly into powered speakers as their amps are built in.) You can use whatever you like here. Can be a surround receiver with 6 amp channels built in. Could be 2 separate stereo amps (for quad - or 3 for 5.1). Could be 4 or 6 powered speakers. It's really no different than hooking up two channel stereo in concept.

Putting together a system leads to some choices. A computer with a thunderbolt or full featured HDMI port*** can patch right into a surround receiver with an HDMI input. This is slick. You drop a multichannel FLAC file into a media player and hit play. Set the receiver input for 1:1 (ie. make sure no "suck buttons" are on for playing with reverbs and such) and it just works. The 'old school' method here (when you don't have thunderbolt or an HDMI capable receiver) is to use what's called an audio interface. Plugs in with USB, firewire, or thunderbolt and has the audio outputs on the back of it. Then analog cables to analog inputs on a receiver or stack of multiple stereo amps.

The old generation analog formats (encoded vinyl or tapes) is actually the tricky part here!
You may in fact decide to not entertain that part and just find a digital copy of it. 24 bit HD FLAC files for surround music is as happiness and light as it gets.

You'll notice that all the pieces required come in different bundles. Like speakers vs. powered speakers for example. Powered speakers are simply speakers with amps built into the boxes. An HDMI surround receiver is an HDMI audio interface + 6 channels of DA converters + a 6 channel preamp (for the volume control) + 6 channels of amps built into the same box.
So ponder that for a moment. Take inventory of your current gear. Now go shopping for only the pieces you need. Don't duplicate expensive bits that you only need one of.

*** Watch out and read the manuals before you buy! They make budget computers with an HDMI port but it's restricted to video only. They make receivers with HDMI inputs that are restricted to video only. Seriously read the manual for anything before you buy it! You can get burned with some of this stuff if you aren't careful.

Any computer from the last 10 years with USB or firewire and any of the multitude of USB or firewire audio interfaces made will always work. More cable patching to do vs. the single thunderbolt to HDMI cable but it just works.

 

[sjcorne]

I understand that part. The problem is that the denon s900w does not have multi channel inputs to my knowledge, only stereo rca, optical, and HDMI.

Ok, I understand- that DTS-610 unit would solve the problem (it puts out lossy 44/16 DTS over optical or coax), and I believe there are also units out there that convert multichannel RCA in to HDMI out.

 

[emh15206]

Thank you both!

The hardware decoder was specifically manufactured with this recording in mind and the piece was created with the intention of the vinyl being the "definitive" listening experience. If I understand correctly, this is the first newly manufactured quadraphonic record pressing in three decades. Nonetheless I will likely listen to the multichannel HD FLAC file from my laptop over HDMI. I'm still going to pursue a DTS-610 with the understanding that it will encode my analog mutlichannel signal into a lossy format just so I can give this a spin on a proper turntable.

 

[fredblue]

are your turntable & preamp hooked up to one of the line in's on your Denon receiver?

if so, you could try playing the disc back thru the PLII Music mode or similar setting.. should provide a reasonable approximation

 

[barfle]

I believe there are also units out there that convert multichannel RCA in to HDMI out.

Got any idea what the make and model might be?

 

[sjcorne]

Got any idea what the make and model might be?

A quick Amazon search yielded this- https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-LPCM-Analog-Surround-Decoder/dp/B071KXR3G2

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Edit: I see this has split into another thread: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/quad-to-hdmi-converter.25489/#post-391396

 

[jimfisheye]

Get one of the small audio interfaces with at least 4 analog inputs to get the analog audio 1. Digitized, and 2. into the computer.

For the return trip (playback), patch a thunderbolt to HDMI cable from computer to receiver.
If you don't have a new enough computer for TB (or it's a budget model without the port), get an audio interface that also has at least 6 outputs and connect them analog to your receiver.

 

[barfle]

A quick Amazon search yielded this- https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-LPCM-Analog-Surround-Decoder/dp/B071KXR3G2

That goes the wrong way, I'm afraid. It has an HDMI input and analog outputs.

 

[atrocity]

That goes the wrong way, I'm afraid. It has an HDMI input and analog outputs.

I share your frustration. I think we're up against a combination of low demand and HDMI being infested with l*wy*rs. I've always gotten the impression that HDMI is 50% about simplification and 50% about controlling what people are allowed to do with the hardware they paid for.

 

[barfle]

I share your frustration. I think we're up against a combination of low demand and HDMI being infested with l*wy*rs. I've always gotten the impression that HDMI is 50% about simplification and 50% about controlling what people are allowed to do with the hardware they paid for.

I understand that the producers want to get paid for their work, and I'm fine with that. They've been bitten by everything from Betamax on, so I understand why Digital Rights Management exists. Yeah, it can backfire on us end-users, but by and large I haven't had trouble. And I don't see how this item would cause any issues anyway. I could record SQ and QS on cassettes, and as long as the heads were properly aligned, they played back OK.

 

[furui_suterioo]

if you had another amp or receiver laying around you could use the denon for the front and other amp or powered speakers for the back, otherwise it will have to run through hdmi in some way on a receiver that doesnt have analog multichannel input, i listen to this through youtub from my laptop to quad receiver in qs or sq mode it sounds good. also recomend Morton Subotnick Touch