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[4-earredwonder]

I gave away my Pioneer Laserdisc player and a few of the discs I had to some chap on AVS Forum. I still have several laserdiscs sitting in a box along with two Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs LP's. ELO "Time" and Toto "IV". They are the only two records I have left out of all my records.

I always wondered what format was coming next but I never expected we would have several choices like we do now to play music and watch movies.

If ONLY we had a crystal ball. But then again, most music/movie purchases and even equipment acquisitions are impulse purchases.

Just wish the music business didn't have so many confusing listening choices and replaced the CD with higher res physical discs on ALL titles [and not even necessarily in surround].

 

[winopener]

The numbers don't really line up here - DVDs took off pretty quickly. That matches what I recall - By the early 00s DVD was clearly seen as the future of video.

View attachment 29926

The numbers don't really line up here - DVDs took off pretty quickly. That matches what I recall - By the early 00s DVD was clearly seen as the future of video.

View attachment 29926

Right. Chinese players such as Raite 715, cloned under various unknown brands and looks, came out in 1999 on the 150$ price tag. Spreaded like wildfire, especially for the added feature of mp3 playback and macrovision off. Since they didn't want to pay any royalites to the dvd patent holder in theory they could not have access to undisclosed information needed in order to build a player ground up... and they solved the problem sticking inside the box a 5.25 pc atapi dvd-rom drive, which was becoming cheap and covered them legally in many countries, since it was a specific use of a regularly licensed product.

Add also:
Late 1999 the dvd protection scheme was broken.
In 1999 CD-R technology was becoming cheap and DVD-R was on sight on computer hardware.
=
You have the reason why DVD took off pretty quickly. These weren't exactly the reason wanted by the CE producers, but it went that way despite their will. All this in a single year, 1999.

 

[winopener]

In retrospect, honestly, think about it. The surround music market might have been better off if SACD and DVD-A never existed, and instead DTS Entertainment continued it's licensing of old quad material, and the mixing and creation of new releases in 5.1 on a DTS CD!!
Hmmmmmmmmm

Exactly. Brad started the DTS CD but could not go on because the majors smelled $$$ and didn't license anything else to him.

 

[bmoura]

But at least DTS put a warning on the disc that use of a DTS decoder was required to play the disc.

DTS did lower the volume on their music discs later on to try and get around this complaint by consumers and the record companies.
While it may have helped with consumers, the record labels were unconvinced about the format and its future on the CD disc.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Exactly. Brad started the DTS CD buy could not go on because the majors smelled $$$ and didn't license anything else to him.

But it was still 16 bit no matter how you want to cut it but I do agree, Brad Miller and company did a great job licensing music from companies who today could not be bothered. TOO BAD, they couldn't release MORE music in DVD~Audio because, IMO, they do sound spectacular and comfortably eclipse most or all 16 bit DTS RBCDs. Still too bad they couldn't reissue Band On The Run and Venus and Mars as DVD~Audios but at least we have the excellent Queen "Night At The Opera' and "The Game." I wish they could've released more Blue Note Titles from Capitol Records because Jazz is sorely lacking on the hi res front.

 

[bmoura]

Jazz is sorely lacking on the hi res front.

Depends on where you look. Lots of fine Jazz albums have been released in Hi Res Audio on SACD and DSD Download by Analogue Productions, Opus 3, Telarc/Heads Up and more recently 2xHD, among other labels.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&categoryid=391&orderby=14&GenreID=4
https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse#genre=34
http://shop.dsdfile.com/category/jazz/

 

[winopener]

But it was still 16 bit no matter how you want to cut it but I do agree, Brad Miller and company did a great job licensing music from companies who today could not be bothered. TOO BAD, they couldn't release MORE music in DVD~Audio because, IMO, they do sound spectacular and comfortably eclipse most or all 16 bit DTS RBCDs. Still too bad they couldn't reissue Band On The Run and Venus and Mars as DVD~Audios but at least we have the excellent Queen "Night At The Opera' and "The Game." I wish they could've released more Blue Note Titles from Capitol Records because Jazz is sorely lacking on the hi res front.

DTS CD used a adaptive lossy compression in order to use at best the +- 1250 effective audio payload from the 1411 of standard redbook cd, and was working at 20-bit depth. More than 3 times for Dolby Digital.
Of course dvda is better than dts cd, but dts cd is better than nothing...@:

 

[kap'n krunch]

My wife prefers playing her music on her phone with tiny built-in speakers instead of the nice stereo system in our living room, even when she's in the living room!

Keep in mind that women are totally different animals...their senses, especially hearing, are way more sensible than ours...and on top of that they can hear up to 22K, whereas us XYs go up to 18K...in a good day!!!

 

[holland123]

Jon, wow, I remember that thread, at first I thought who was this jimby guy who seemed to come out of nowhere and to be honest he was a tad combative as well. reading it over again i see that you are right he did impart a heap of insider info on us, but i think none of us really wanted to believe at the time, we all held out hope for a great return to what we had been promised. I still firmly believe that there were other forces at work which jimby was maybe not privy to, which is what I believe Jonathon and others were trying to say, but he wouldn't acknowledge that the possibility even existed.

as for my experience, once i stumbled into the kiosk at circuit city around 02-03 i was hooked, bought one of everything, only to find on return trips to the store less and less stock on the shelves until there was nothing.

 

[quicksrt]

But it was still 16 bit no matter how you want to cut it but I do agree, Brad Miller and company did a great job licensing music from companies who today could not be bothered. TOO BAD, they couldn't release MORE music in DVD~Audio because, IMO, they do sound spectacular and comfortably eclipse most or all 16 bit DTS RBCDs. Still too bad they couldn't reissue Band On The Run and Venus and Mars as DVD~Audios but at least we have the excellent Queen "Night At The Opera' and "The Game." I wish they could've released more Blue Note Titles from Capitol Records because Jazz is sorely lacking on the hi res front.

But how many Blue Note Jazz titles are quad mixes? It was about quad and 5.1 surround more than hi-res at that time.

 

[4-earredwonder]

But how many Blue Note Jazz titles are quad mixes? It was about quad and 5.1 surround more than hi-res at that time.

DTS had an arrangement with EMI/Blue Note and remixed some of their titles into 5.1. And then they suddenly stopped when DVD~A was no longer a viable format. I also treasure some of the more modern VERVE 5.1 titles like Gershwin World, the Diana Kralls, etc. I realize bmoura did correct me [re: lack of jazz titles] by pointing me to the older Mono, Stereo Blue Notes, Riverside and Verve Jazz titles from the 50's and 60's which I do have in abundance and more current DSD downloaded titles [which I don't do] but I was hoping for more current 5.1 remixes from Verve and Blue Note, SONY etc.

 

[bmoura]

DTS had an arrangement with EMI/Blue Note and remixed some of their titles into 5.1. And then they suddenly stopped when DVD~A was no longer a viable format.

Remember that DTS and Dolby are primarily in the business of making money through their licensing programs, not selling music, movies or concert video discs.
They get an upfront payment plus a payment for each audio device made with their technology. This far outstrips any money that the two companies may have made on DTS and Dolby encoded laserdiscs, music discs, DVDs, etc.

DTS Entertainment was an initiative designed to create demand by consumers for DTS equipped disc players, AV receivers, etc.
On that level, it worked and put them on the map. In a market that Dolby had dominated for years.

A smart move by DTS (and Dolby) to be sure.

 

[atrocity]

I agree, portable, decent sound, non linear editing, etc. but a real pain if a disc was corrupted as it could appear to go through the motions of recording and the issue was only revealed when attempting playback.

Interesting...I never encountered that. But it highlights another way Sony screwed up: Full integration with computers should have happened on day one. Maybe a situation like you describe could have been fixed with a PC utility.

 

[atrocity]

Could you be specific about "cd burning became easy and cheap"? Which Years?

I bought my first CD burner in 1998. It worked great, but getting a W*nd*ws computer to record for even a few minutes without audibly dropping samples was a nightmare.

DVD wasn't the first Video format on digital media. The first one was VideoCD, pushed by Philips and Sony (guess why? Royalties...) and gave a slight better quality than VHS

Was that the same format sold as CD-i in the USA? I ask because I remember once seeing a display for it in a store and it looked absolutely terrible.

 

[winopener]

I bought my first CD burner in 1998. It worked great, but getting a W*nd*ws computer to record for even a few minutes without audibly dropping samples was a nightmare.

That's why i dedicated a machine only for this task. It was not a horsepower, just a 486dx2 66, but it was tuned just for that task.

Was that the same format sold as CD-i in the USA? I ask because I remember once seeing a display for it in a store and it looked absolutely terrible.

Yes and no: VideoCD keep the same movie specs and structure as CD-i Video but the CD is readable on pc/mac too (iso filesystem),while CD-i used a different filesystem thus appearing as a unreadable disc when inserted on a pc.
However CD-i ( i for interacitve) allowed also for games etc on the CD-i console. Still have one boxed somewhere, used to test the VCD authoring program on the CD-i for full compatibility.

 

[drphibes]

That being said, have the Steven Wilson remixes sold enough to truly justify the investment?

That they keep happening suggests yes, that it hasn't spread like wildfire suggests that it's not exactly knocked it out of the park.

 

[JonUrban]

Could you be specific about "cd burning became easy and cheap"? Which Years?

Well, I remember buying a Pioneer Elite PDR-99 CD recorder, and it was almost a $2000 investment. It was a pretty nice machine (for that money) and it worked like a cassette recorder. You had to use special "CONSUMER" CD blanks or you could not record. It was fun for a while, but then PCs got CD-ROM burners and the whole concept went out the window.

I think that's probably the best description of "cd burning becoming easy and cheap", because with the original CD Recorder/Players, it was nothing close to "cheap".

PS - I still have that PDR-99, and I haven't touched it in decades! But it sure looks nice!

(This one is not mine. I just found an image on the net)

 

[atrocity]

Well, I remember buying a Pioneer Elite PDR-99 CD recorder, and it was almost a $2000 investment. It was a pretty nice machine (for that money) and it worked like a cassette recorder.

I started with a much cheaper Pioneer myself. Used to record onto a rewriteable, then EAC the bits into the computer for prettying up. Now I just capture with a Roland R-05 at 24/94, import the WAVs into the computer, make it all pretty and SoX the final results down to 16/44.1. I archive the raw captures on Blu-ray just in case I want to go back to them.

 

[boondocks]

Thanks, Jon, for pointing out that old thread, I just don't understand how I missed it originally.... I only read about 3 pages in so far, but I get what the industry guy was saying. The total number of units sold of DVD-A was somewhat shocking, however. I know when I bought my old Samsungs (841/941) off Ebay, I bought what I could afford, be it DVD-A (my preferred format) or SACD, but based soley on titles available.

It's all the same old thing. I got out of the Army with a 4 channel 8 track, a very expensive (even at Miltary Audio store prices) quad receiver(w/cd4 decoder) , a Thorenz with shibata stylus, a Kenwood cassette deck of decent quality, some Q8's and a few CD4 titles, decent speakers, etc etc.

My friends, when I played back the quad, basically said "nnnh", absolutely no interest. In fact, I've met very few folks personally and face to face that give a rat's ass about high resolution audio through all these years since, what? 1972'ish?

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Thanks, Jon, for pointing out that old thread, I just don't understand how I missed it originally.... I only read about 3 pages in so far, but I get what the industry guy was saying. The total number of units sold of DVD-A was somewhat shocking, however. I know when I bought my old Samsungs (841/941) off Ebay, I bought what I could afford, be it DVD-A (my preferred format) or SACD, but based soley on titles available.

It's all the same old thing. I got out of the Army with a 4 channel 8 track, a very expensive (even at Miltary Audio store prices) quad receiver(w/cd4 decoder) , a Thorenz with shibata stylus, a Kenwood cassette deck of decent quality, some Q8's and a few CD4 titles, decent speakers, etc etc.

My friends, when I played back the quad, basically said "nnnh", absolutely no interest. In fact, I've met very few folks personally and face to face that give a rat's ass about high resolution audio through all these years since, what? 1972'ish?

I hate to admit it...but I was one of those "who needs 4 speakers" guys...there was a quad radio station(which went under quickly)within my listening area...back in the day my dream turntable was a Thorens...never got one..and the closest thing I came to a shibata...well it was the bread on a sandwich:violin