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More Santana Surround Sound SACD Reissues from Sony Japan?

4-earredwonder

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#21
possibly, Ralph.. though when ABC/Dunhill/Command got taken over by MCA rather a lot of master tapes of U.S. origin are said to have grown wings and flown to Japan post '79, that's all I'm saying... also, we know Universal have the Quad of Diana Ross' "Last Time I Saw Him" at least, so maybe those Motown Quads are safely tucked up in UMG's vaults after all :)
I certainly hope you're right, Adam. So it would be up to Universal Japan to release those QUADs [if they exist intact]. One would think that with SONY Japan stepping up to release some of their QUADs on SACD, Universal would follow suit. One could only WISH! SHM~SACDs MULTICHANNEL!:banana::banana::banana::banana:
 

fredblue

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#23
Ok that's right they did put it out no fear of it being out already by AF, same as AP doing Blow By Blow, Headhunters, and BS&T, fearless ambition.
Very good point.. and it is (and I'm not bashing them, just expressing my h.o) something I did struggle with AF's approach somewhat.. so what if MFSL did "That's The Way Of The World" & "They Only Come Out At Night" on SACD a decade+ ago..!?
After all, they were Stereo only, didn't sound great and are now long out of print and hard to find.
If AF had done those two on Surround SACD the whole endeavour may have been more successful for them and for us - just how I feel and I am glad and thankful for all they did - and wish they were continuing with 5.1/Quad but at this point they appear not to be, so hopefully Sony Japan & Dutton Vocalion will continue where they left off.
 

bmoura

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#24
There will likely be more SACD reissues from the Sony Music vaults.
For albums recorded in the US, those tapes are likely in the Sony Music US vaults - not Sony Japan's.
 

fizzywiggs41

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#25
There will likely be more SACD reissues from the Sony Music vaults.
For albums recorded in the US, those tapes are likely in the Sony Music US vaults - not Sony Japan's.
I'm not certain that's a certainty, Brian.

They could very well have Master Copies of a number of Popular Artists in Sony's Japanese Vault . (JEFF BECK , once again)
And I don't believe they needed CBS USA ' permission even back then .The transport of tapes would be a problem-- so they keep a copy-no worries for CBS ! They had agreements and were practically related in the 70's me thinks.
Sony was indeed the equal partner for promotion of SQ Quad , they had like investments , Sony made Encoders , equipment etc., so retention of "master copies" in the same family just makes sense.
I'm certain there were likely many titles of quad backup copies of these masters in the U.S and Japan .




But now I'm hoping MCA (KING RECORDS) did something likewise.......

Oh for the love of STEELY DAN !!!--- and let's not forget all those tapes that "Japanese collectors" bought up with the dissolution of ABC RECORDS AMERICA , perhaps there was an associate from MCA JAPAN in that foreign sell off.??
 

fredblue

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#26
There will likely be more SACD reissues from the Sony Music vaults.
For albums recorded in the US, those tapes are likely in the Sony Music US vaults - not Sony Japan's.
Do you mean there will likely be more Audio Fidelity SACD reissues from Sony vaults?

If so, in Surround?
 

fredblue

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#27
I'm not certain that's a certainty, Brian.

They could very well have Master Copies of a number of Popular Artists in Sony's Japanese Vault . (JEFF BECK , once again)
And I don't believe they needed CBS USA ' permission even back then .The transport of tapes would be a problem-- so they keep a copy-no worries for CBS ! They had agreements and were practically related in the 70's me thinks.
Sony was indeed the equal partner for promotion of SQ Quad , they had like investments , Sony made Encoders , equipment etc., so retention of "master copies" in the same family just makes sense.
I'm certain there were likely many titles of quad backup copies of these masters in the U.S and Japan .




But now I'm hoping MCA (KING RECORDS) did something likewise.......

Oh for the love of STEELY DAN !!!--- and let's not forget all those tapes that "Japanese collectors" bought up with the dissolution of ABC RECORDS AMERICA , perhaps there was an associate from MCA JAPAN in that foreign sell off.??
With you 100%, FW.

Unless an exhaustive search has been undertaken of Japan (not just labels but collectors, etc) - period - then it's all still up for grabs imho..

..way too much unique Quad (and/or uniquely QS or CD-4 in Japan, when the domestic U.S or UK release was SQ matrix) was released in Japan for there not to be any hope.
 

bmoura

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#28
I'm not certain that's a certainty, Brian.
When an album is released in Japan, or in the UK, for example, that doesn't tell us where the album tapes are stored.

Another example: Universal Japan has released a number of albums on Single Layer SACD in recent years.

Tapes for those albums have been largely sourced from the UK and US vaults of Universal along with artists, engineers and producers.
Not from Universal Music in Japan.
 

fizzywiggs41

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#29
When an album is released in Japan, or in the UK, for example, that doesn't tell us where the album tapes are stored.

Another example: Universal Japan has released a number of albums on Single Layer SACD in recent years.

Tapes for those albums have been largely sourced from the UK and US vaults of Universal along with artists, engineers and producers.
Not from Universal Music in Japan.
That's good to know, but when a QUAD album was or is created that changes the whole ball of wax , as would likely be the case with Sony back in the 70's.
Backup Quad masters being exchanged for the Sony Encodes for the very large Asian market should be factored in. And Q4 mixes of any artist Sony has to promote , regardless of their original home base.

It would however be much easier for them to ship Encoded masters for Sony's use , but given that Sony manufactured the Encoders and co-shared in the SQ investment , Q4 masters retention would be a safe bet .





Universal Music.....likely a rarer opportunity , but only the Vaultmeister knows for certain. There are English speaking groups that Phillips etc.released in Japan exclusively, for Quad . Provided the Home Base Europe/America, did not insist on their
storage elsewhere ., in some cases at the artists choice , providing the label still has access.
 

bmoura

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#30
I'm sure you're right, Brian but with all those disappearing American QUAD remasters either going up in smoke:flame or being tossed in the trash doubtful whether SONY US or Japan would allow the same fate to happen to those ultra valuable Santana QUAD masters.....especially since they've been one of SONY/Columbia's BIGGEST A list providers since the late 60's.
Sony Music does a very nice job with the masters of all of their artists.
That explains why so many of the recent reissues come from their vaults.
 

sjcorne

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#31
I voted 6. Disappointment abounds with no surround. I won't bore you with a big review as others who posted before me have done a great job. My 6 vote is a mixture of feelings I have about this new release all jumbled up. Packaging superb and fun, a little larger in size than the previous Japan releases. Sonic quality is way better than the Audio Fidelity release of just a few months ago, very clear and robust, unlike AF's kind of muddy. Surround is almost non existent, a good example is Disc 1, Track 3, which has a laser sounding instrument, that would have been a no brainier to mix and spin around all the speakers in the room, but unfortunately just stays stereo. However, what makes this not a waste of plastic is the, I will call it "enhanced stereo sound", of course fills the listening room, which is great.
It is a live recording and as we all know our expectations should never be high on true discrete surround sound on old live recordings.
Am I glad I purchased it ? That's really the question. I could have passed. But it is nice to know that there are two SACD versions out now and one, this one, is superbly better than the other. The other reason only now that I have it, is "I am showing support for other Santana albums to be released in 5.1 SACD. That is not a good enough reason for me, but it helps.
My prediction is the next two will be Abraxas and Caravanseri.
Why do you think they would skip the first album? Don't get me wrong Abraxas and Caravanseri especially would be awesome but the first one is the only one I haven't heard the discrete mix of (aside from the 3 cuts on the greatest hits). Unfortunately, I found a Q8 that immediately snapped on first playback a few years ago, so I just have to live with the SQ disc and script decoded conversion for now. "Shades of Time" is one of my favorite Santana tracks and it kills in quad.
 

rtbluray

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#32
Why do you think they would skip the first album? Don't get me wrong Abraxas and Caravanseri especially would be awesome but the first one is the only one I haven't heard the discrete mix of (aside from the 3 cuts on the greatest hits). Unfortunately, I found a Q8 that immediately snapped on first playback a few years ago, so I just have to live with the SQ disc and script decoded conversion for now. "Shades of Time" is one of my favorite Santana tracks and it kills in quad.
Sony Japan are under no obligation to release any more Santana Quadraphonic mixes on Multichannel SACD, and if they do, they are certainly in no obligation to go in chronological order. (After all, the Jeff Beck Japanese Multichannel SACDs certainly were not released in chronological order.)

Now, let's get back to discussing "Lotus", shall we?

;)
 

marpow

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#33
Why do you think they would skip the first album?
Why do I think Japan is going to offer Abraxas and Caravaseri as the next two SACD 5.1's ? In all the stuff you get with Lotus there is a picture brochure where those two covers are displayed, also we know there has been a DTS version of Abraxas, also when Jeff Beck came out with Blow By Blow there was a little picture of Rough and Ready, when everybody on the Forum was saying I hope they do I said they will based on that little picture. So I say that because of the packaging in Lotus and a hunch that the Japanese like to give little hints. Or maybe it's all bullshit, but you did hear it from Marpow first.
 

4-earredwonder

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#34
Sony Japan are under no obligation to release any more Santana Quadraphonic mixes on Multichannel SACD, and if they do, they are certainly in no obligation to go in chronological order. (After all, the Jeff Beck Japanese Multichannel SACDs certainly were not released in chronological order.)

Now, let's get back to discussing "Lotus", shall we?

;)
Well, that's certainly a given but since there ARE potentially 13 additional Santana QUADs rife for re~release on QUAD SACD I should hope SONY Japan would at least explore the possibility of eventually releasing them. We all know Lotus which has the LEAST discrete mix was released to coincide with Santana's 2017 Japan Tour, and we're all hoping it sells well as to encourage more releases from that Supergroup and at probably $50 a pop, it would make credible business sense, as well.

ALL the Jeff Beck QUADS were released.....so why not Santana?
 

fredblue

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#35
Why do you think they would skip the first album?
Why do I think Japan is going to offer Abraxas and Caravaseri as the next two SACD 5.1's ? In all the stuff you get with Lotus there is a picture brochure where those two covers are displayed, also we know there has been a DTS version of Abraxas, also when Jeff Beck came out with Blow By Blow there was a little picture of Rough and Ready, when everybody on the Forum was saying I hope they do I said they will based on that little picture. So I say that because of the packaging in Lotus and a hunch that the Japanese like to give little hints. Or maybe it's all bullshit, but you did hear it from Marpow first.
Hope so, Caravanserai in Quad is (to me) to Larry Keyes what the 5.1 mixes of Homecoming, Winelight & Captain & Me are to Elliot Scheiner (among his surround masterpieces imho). Back on topic, sorry, might still get this Lotus set, beggar the expense and unadventurous surround, it just looks so beautiful..!!
 

4-earredwonder

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#36
Hope so, Caravanserai in Quad is (to me) to Larry Keyes what the 5.1 mixes of Homecoming, Winelight & Captain & Me are to Elliot Scheiner (among his surround masterpieces imho). Back on topic, sorry, might still get this Lotus set, beggar the expense and unadventurous surround, it just looks so beautiful..!!
Of course you KNOW you WANT IT, Adam.

It's in your DNA!:yikes

Just give the rear speakers in your mind a rest.
:zzzzz
 
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#37
Still not in the mood to throw in on Lotus in hopes it will encourage a release of Caravanserai. I'm convinced it will get into the pipeline on its' own.

I'm just on pins and needles hoping the industry itself doesn't try one more time to hack SACD and DVD-A translations of old Quad mixes, in hopes they can focus all the marketing and excitement to yet another format (Atmos) that really can't hope to hit its' stride until Atmos arrays are more common in the home (sooo, what-? Five-to-seven years...?) That's a helluva long bucket of water to pour on releases of existing mixes the public could at least be enjoying now with their existing equipment.

Yes, I bought Chicago Transit Authority to contrubute support for the Quadio line, and yes, we finally got our love back in the form of a Big Box O Chicago. So...why am I not quite on board for springing $90 for Lotus, hmmm? Maybe with maturity comes balance; I probably didn't have the original 3-LP set laid-out in my bedroom more than 5 times after college, and the first CD release perhaps 3 times...without even knowing I had the ability to hear the quad processing with my Dolby PLII on. Strange: a $30 Caravanserai, sure - even though I've already bought the original Japanese SACD; but, $90 for a release 3x as big, not salivating...? Crickets...going off in my head.

OH, WAIT...I've heard these particular crickets before...right before Dewey Redman comes in.....!
 

Frogmort

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#38
... in hopes they can focus all the marketing and excitement to yet another format (Atmos) that really can't hope to hit its' stride until Atmos arrays are more common in the home (sooo, what-? Five-to-seven years...?) [
From first hand experience, most every Atmos soundtrack that I've heard summed down to just TrueHD 7.1 on my system has been miles ahead of most standard 7.1 TrueHD surround tracks that I've heard, which can be pretty impressive. The extra object-based surround encoding translates to a much more involving and active surround mix even when summed down. I love it, even though I don't have the equipment to fully realize the full-on object based sound.
 

rtbluray

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#40
we definitely need a Santana "Quadio" box!!!!
Unless Sony are willing to adapt a similar concept that Warner Music & Rhino Records did with the Chicago Quadio box set, I think the only way we will see any Santana Quadraphonic mixes reissued is through Sony Japan on Multichannel SACD in the very expensive 7" packages.
"QUADIO" is strictly a Warner Music/Rhino Records concept.
 
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