Oppo UDP-203 Multi Channel Analog Output Assistance Needed

[The56Kid]

Have had my 203 for the better part of a week and am loving it. Also have a 93 that I'm keeping as it's been a faithful companion for many years now.

Decided I wanted to take advantage of the 203's DACs for playback of MC sources, so I connected the 203's analog audio outputs to the corresponding inputs on my Yamaha RX-V1900. Since I only have a 5.1 setup, I set the 203's Speaker Configuration Down Mix Mode to 5.1Ch and the RX-V1900's INPUT CH setting to 6ch. The subwoofer is set to ON in the 203's Speaker Configuration menu.

I'll also mention that I have the RX-V1900's pre-outs connected to an Emotiva XPA-5 to power a suite of Monitor Audio Silver series speakers - Silver 8 Mains, Silver Centre, and Silver FX surrounds. My Outlaw LFM-1 Plus subwoofer is connected to the RX-V1900's subwoofer pre-out.

For whatever reason, I'm not getting any output to my sub when the Multi input source (Multi Channel Analog Output) is selected for the RX-V1900. The mains, center, and surround speakers are all properly engaged. I also have the 203 connected to the RX-V1900 via HDMI and when that input source is selected for the RX-V1900, the sub is properly engaged along with the other 5 speakers. This same phenomena occurs when playing back stereo sources like a CD - mains active but no sub for Multi input source; mains and sub active for HDMI input.

I've checked the analog audio output connections between the 203 and the RX-V1900 and even swapped the Center and Subwoofer connector cables, but I keep getting the same result.

If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I pride myself in being able to setup my gear and resolve any issues I encounter, but this one is throwing me for a loop!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Ill take a stab at this. Do you know how bass management works?

The Yamaha probably switches to a direct mode when its MC analog inputs are selected. If so, there is no bass management, meaning no low bass from the mains or surrounds, or center is being routed to the sub. When you choose a digital input there is functional bass management which will remove low bass from the mains, surrounds and center and route it all to the sub.

With many AVRs you have a choice with the stereo analog inputs. They can be run in direct mode, which again means no bass management and no sub output. Or they can be run in one of the surround modes the AVR offers, in which case the AVR converts the stereo analog signal to digital and applies the chosen DSP, part of which is likely bass management.

So at least for stereo sources, the system seems like it is working as it should. What I don't understand yet is why the LFE output from the 5.1 source is not getting to the sub. There is a cable running from the OPPO's LFE analog out to the AVR, correct? Also the LFE channel itself typically has its own level control, be sure it isn't turned down. Also be sure the music source or disk you are playing truly does have an active LFE track.

 

[The56Kid]

Thanks for the response, LuvMyQuad!

It isn't always easy to communicate clearly, but I'm experiencing the same issue for both MC and stereo sources - sub won't fire when hardwired analog audio outputs are engaged. You raise a good point regarding bass management and I'll try to outline the RX-V1900 LFE setup options to provide further clarification of my current setup. I apologize in advance for the length of this message, but I want to put out as much info as possible to aid arriving at a resolution quickly!

Under the Speaker Configuration menu of the RX-V1900, there is an option to setup the 'LFE/bass out' that features two levels: 'LFE signals output' and 'Low-frequency signals output'. The available 'LFE/bass out' selections are: BOTH, SWFR, FRONT.

For 'LFE signals output', the following occurs for each selection:

BOTH: Subwoofer - Output; Front Speakers - No output; Other Speakers - No output
SWFR: Subwoofer - Output; Front Speakers - No output; Other Speakers - No output
FRONT: Subwoofer - No output; Front Speakers - Output; Other Speakers - No output

For 'Low-frequency signals output', the following occurs for each selection:

BOTH: Subwoofer - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to 'SMALL'; Front Speakers - Always output the low-frequency signals of the front channels; Other Speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to 'LARGE'
SWFR: Subwoofer - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the speakers set to SMALL; Front Speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE; Other speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE
FRONT: Subwoofer - No output; Front Speakers - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to SMALL; Other speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE

Given these options I have the 'LFE/bass out' set to BOTH and have experienced zero issues with subwoofer engagement. My main/front speakers are set to LARGE and the Center and Surrounds are set to SMALL.

The RX-V1900 'manuals does point out that 'the digital sound field processor' is automatically disabled when 'MULTI CH' is selected as the input source, but I don't care for or use any of the available DSPs. Additionally, there is a Tone Control on the front panel of the RX-V1900 for individual Treble and Bass adjustments that I do use. The manual states that the Tone Control is not in effect when the Pure Direct mode is activated or when 'MULTI CH' is selected as the input source.

In the Pure Direct section of the manual, nothing is mentioned regarding loss of bass management, although I previously noted that when Pure Direct is selected, my subwoofer does not engage which is the largest reason why I never use the Pure Direct option.

 

[quoddiophile]

You have probably done this already but you should probably recheck your OPPO settings.

In the OPPO (I have a 205 but it should be the same for the 203), go to the Audio Processing menu.

1. Go to the Speaker Configuration and set all speakers to SMALL. In your case, the REAR (Labelled SBL and SBR) speakers will be set to NONE.
2. Make sure the SUB is enabled.
3. Set the SUB crossover. I would use 80 Hz but you can always tinker with this later.


You have to do Bass Management in the OPPO because your receiver almost certainly forces the Analog signal to be
passed through with no processing. If the SUB is not enabled in the OPPO and the speakers are set to large in the OPPO,
no LFE/SUB signals will be sent to your receiver. With the multi-channel analog outs BASS MANAGEMENT can only be
done in the OPPO.

I am doing this somewhat off the top of my head but it is simple to check and if it solves at least part of your problem...

Jim

 

[LuvMyQuad]

For 'LFE signals output', the following occurs for each selection:

BOTH: Subwoofer - Output; Front Speakers - No output; Other Speakers - No output (this is not correct. You should be getting LFE signal in both the sub and the fronts when this is set to both. Re check this.)
SWFR: Subwoofer - Output; Front Speakers - No output; Other Speakers - No output (correct)
FRONT: Subwoofer - No output; Front Speakers - Output; Other Speakers - No output (correct)

For 'Low-frequency signals output', the following occurs for each selection:

BOTH: Subwoofer - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to 'SMALL'; Front Speakers - Always output the low-frequency signals of the front channels; Other Speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to 'LARGE' (correct)
SWFR: Subwoofer - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the speakers set to SMALL; Front Speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE; Other speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE (correct)
FRONT: Subwoofer - No output; Front Speakers - Outputs the low-frequency signals of the front channels and other speakers set to SMALL; Other speakers - Output the low-frequency signals if the speakers are set to LARGE (correct)

Given these options I have the 'LFE/bass out' set to BOTH and have experienced zero issues with subwoofer engagement. My main/front speakers are set to LARGE and the Center and Surrounds are set to SMALL.

The RX-V1900 'manuals does point out that 'the digital sound field processor' is automatically disabled when 'MULTI CH' is selected as the input source, but I don't care for or use any of the available DSPs. Additionally, there is a Tone Control on the front panel of the RX-V1900 for individual Treble and Bass adjustments that I do use. The manual states that the Tone Control is not in effect when the Pure Direct mode is activated or when 'MULTI CH' is selected as the input source.

In the Pure Direct section of the manual, nothing is mentioned regarding loss of bass management, although I previously noted that when Pure Direct is selected, my subwoofer does not engage which is the largest reason why I never use the Pure Direct option.

You have to understand, regardless of whether you use Pure Direct mode or not, if the input source is "MULTI CH" all DSP is likely being disabled, including the bass management, which is also a DSP function.

What are the speaker settings in the OPPO set to?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You have to do Bass Management in the OPPO because your receiver almost certainly forces the Analog signal to be
passed through with no processing. If the SUB is not enabled in the OPPO and the speakers are set to large in the OPPO,
no LFE/SUB signals will be sent to your receiver. With the multi-channel analog outs BASS MANAGEMENT can only be
done in the OPPO.

Jim

Yes... what he said.

 

[The56Kid]

Guys, many thanks for the responses. I did have the mains set to LARGE in the 203. As soon as I set them to SMALL, the 203 engaged my sub as desired!

You learn something new everyday and I didn't realize bass management in the Yamaha was bypassed when the analog outputs are employed.

Again, thanks!!!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Guys, many thanks for the responses. I did have the mains set to LARGE in the 203. As soon as I set them to SMALL, the 203 engaged my sub as desired!

You learn something new everyday and I didn't realize bass management in the Yamaha was bypassed when the analog outputs are employed.

Again, thanks!!!

Most AVR's work that way. There were (are?) a few high end pre/pros that did bass management in the analog domain, but even then, it was typically only BM for the stereo sources. And for good reason. For example I have a turntable in my system. And I rely on a sub for bass output because my mains are not full range. If I use a direct mode for the turntable signal there is no bass management, and therefor no bass below 50 HZ or so. If I use a non-direct mode, I get the proper bass output, but I've compromised the purity of the turntable signal by encoding it to digital, doing the DSP, and converting back to analog for playback.

The answer? Do the Bass Management in the analog domain. Which is what I do by using a 5.1 electronic crossover between pre/pro and power amp.

I'm happy you got it all to work out,

 

[quoddiophile]

Really glad that it worked out for you. I know how frustrating it can be. Enjoy your system. The analog outs on the OPPO are terrific!

Jim

 

[The56Kid]

I’m still trying to work things out via the analog outs. Making all speakers SMALL in the 203 does allow sub engagement, but I lose the oomph normally provided by the low freq drivers in my mains so my overall sound is too thin sounding. I lowered the crossover frequency in the 203 from 80 to 40 Hz in hopes of getting some decent amount of bass to the mains, but it still wasn’t enough.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I’m still trying to work things out via the analog outs. Making all speakers SMALL in the 203 does allow sub engagement, but I lose the oomph normally provided by the low freq drivers in my mains so my overall sound is too thin sounding. I lowered the crossover frequency in the 203 from 80 to 40 Hz in hopes of getting some decent amount of bass to the mains, but it still wasn’t enough.

try setting the speaker options in the AVR to "both". You should also be able to increase the sub level independently from the LFE level. Try boosting the sub level.