Petition to UMG to release the early Steely Dans in 5.1

[humprof]

The Tull sets are actually distributed by Warner Music, not Universal, but I agree. They are amazing, well-priced sets, and many have sold out from many stores, so they do sell well.

I appreciate the correction. Hard to keep it all straight, even after reading the Chrysalis Wikipedia page carefully...

I think the main issue is that Steely Dan aren’t ones to want include any kind of extra material in any kind of reissue, so apart from straight remasters and 5.1 Surround mixes, we probably won’t see anything else released from them, so that really doesn’t fit into Universal’s current box set model.

You're probably right about that. Unless Fagen has a late-life change of heart and decides to okay some of the better bootlegged stuff--demos & outtakes, live radio broadcasts, etc.--or even just "Dallas" and "Sail the Waterway," then the only option for a box set from existing material, assuming the quad masters still exist, would be the three quads plus Pretzel 5.1.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I appreciate the correction. Hard to keep it all straight, even after reading the Chrysalis Wikipedia page carefully...



You're probably right about that. Unless Fagen has a late-life change of heart and decides to okay some of the better bootlegged stuff--demos & outtakes, live radio broadcasts, etc.--or even just "Dallas" and "Sail the Waterway," then the only option for a box set from existing material, assuming the quad masters still exist, would be the three quads plus Pretzel 5.1.

If RBCDs of outtakes and cutting room floor paraphernalia sell box sets, I'll be a monkey's uncle. MOST of us [but NOT all to be fair] just want the 5.1/4.0 remixes and are tired of paying for vinyl, multiple RBCDs, hard covered books, etc. in portentous boxsets which only take up space...and empty out wallets!

IMO, Steely Dan's music speaks for itself and should NOT require any further gimmickry to sell in appreciable amounts!

 

[JonUrban]

AF asked UMG/UMe or whatever they are now about the "missing Elton's". They actually offered them to AF......with a huge "IF". It was too big of an "if" for them to accept.

So they are aware they are there, and Elton is not opposed to them being released. It's purely a numbers game. Purely numbers.

This kind of numbers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[4-earredwonder]

AF asked UMG/UMe or whatever they are now about the "missing Elton's". They actually offered them to AF......with a huge "IF". It was too big of an "if" for them to accept.

So they are aware they are there, and Elton is not opposed to them being released. It's purely a numbers game. Purely numbers.

This kind of numbers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

So the perceived wisdom is by keeping them locked up tight in the vaults they are making NO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Methinks the powers that be at UMG are doing TOO MUCH:



Or, because it's cheaper now:

 

[ar surround]

If RBCDs of outtakes and cutting room floor paraphernalia sell box sets, I'll be a monkey's uncle. MOST of us [but NOT all to be fair] just want the 5.1/4.0 remixes and are tired of paying for vinyl, multiple RBCDs, hard covered books, etc. in portentous boxsets which only take up space...and empty out wallets!

IMO, Steely Dan's music speaks for itself and should NOT require any further gimmickry to sell in appreciable amounts!

You will never becoming a monkey's uncle! The only "extra material" RBCD that I played was Sgt. Pepper and the 9 minute version of FM's Sara, and that was only once for each. I haven't even looked at the discs of extra material in all my other sets. I'm sure that some of it is worth a listen, but there's too much other stuff to listen to. With these box sets, I take out the 5.1 discs, put them in convenient CD jewel cases, and the box set gets put away on the shelf. When Quadrophenia came out on Bluray, I sold the box set having not once listened to anything other than the 5.1 DVD-A and never looking at the book.

 

[JonUrban]

We don't have to like it but the reality of the market today for these people is clearly outlined below:

They don't want to make this: $$
They want to make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
If they can't make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
Then they'd rather make this: -0-

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Either it’s because Elton has not authorized their release, or Universal just aren’t smart enough to realize what they’ve got!
I agree that a Blu-Ray box set with “Elton John”, “Tumbleweed Connection”, “Madman Across the Water”, “Honky Chateau”, “Don’t Shoot Me, I’m Only the Piano Player”, “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” (already on Blu-Ray), “Caribou”, “Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy”, “Rock of the Westies”, and “Blue Moves” would be a contender for the greatest surround sound release of all time!

I always wondered why Universal never released more of these 5.1 mixes during their HFPA Blu-Ray initiative. They would have been better release choices than several that they did release...

Let me play devil's advocate on your proposal...with the qualifier that I have and love all the EJ surround titles that have already been released....but IMO including these already released surround titles(and lets' not forget about Peachtree Road)in some box set would be a marketing mistake...because just offering them in blu ray audio isn't that big of an incentive because these titles already sound excellent(some more than others) and from MY experience watching the reactions of my friends in the surround community to "repeats"...it would be an epic fail....they aren't going to buy these things again just to get them on blu ray...and from the record companies perspective...think about this....since I've joined this forum...everytime there was a new member on here asking about surround titles to buy...I'd first mention EJ and the various titles you have included in your post and I highlighted...and some of these had been put on the market almost 15 years ago...BUT...and this is a key point....they were still available and CHEAP....so if the sales were robust on these...how many units were pressed to be able to sustain all those years and still be available and at a very cheap price...even if they made another run of the most popular titles...that's a long time to still have those in inventory...I suspect they didn't sell that well..

Now what I would like to see is a box set with the titles that weren't released in surround...Rock of The Westies(I have it on Gold CD)...Blue Moves...Caribou and Don't Shoot Me I'm Only the Piano Player....now that is something that would be appealing...the other thing we all have to consider is the age of some of this music...as every year goes by there are fewer and fewer "fans" of music that is 40 and 50 years old...in the eyes of the record companies this means fewer potential customers...and one final thing....I do suspect that some of these titles that are sitting in vaults will make their way to the audiophile community...but not necessarily the way a lot of us want...via the download method...right now this download industry is in it's infancy as far as multichannel rock offerings is concerned...but the technology will get better and then...just maybe...some of these titles will be released...

 

[4-earredwonder]

We don't have to like it but the reality of the market today for these people is clearly outlined below:

They don't want to make this: $$
They want to make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
If they can't make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
Then they'd rather make this: -0-

 

[4-earredwonder]

Let me play devil's advocate on your proposal...with the qualifier that I have and love all the EJ surround titles that have already been released....but IMO including these already released surround titles(and lets' not forget about Peachtree Road)in some box set would be a marketing mistake...because just offering them in blu ray audio isn't that big of an incentive because these titles already sound excellent(some more than others) and from MY experience watching the reactions of my friends in the surround community to "repeats"...it would be an epic fail....they aren't going to buy these things again just to get them on blu ray...and from the record companies perspective...think about this....since I've joined this forum...everytime there was a new member on here asking about surround titles to buy...I'd first mention EJ and the various titles you have included in your post and I highlighted...and some of these had been put on the market almost 15 years ago...BUT...and this is a key point....they were still available and CHEAP....so if the sales were robust on these...how many units were pressed to be able to sustain all those years and still be available and at a very cheap price...even if they made another run of the most popular titles...that's a long time to still have those in inventory...I suspect they didn't sell that well..

Now what I would like to see is a box set with the titles that weren't released in surround...Rock of The Westies(I have it on Gold CD)...Blue Moves...Caribou and Don't Shoot Me I'm Only the Piano Player....now that is something that would be appealing...the other thing we all have to consider is the age of some of this music...as every year goes by there are fewer and fewer "fans" of music that is 40 and 50 years old...in the eyes of the record companies this means fewer potential customers...and one final thing....I do suspect that some of these titles that are sitting in vaults will make their way to the audiophile community...but not necessarily the way a lot of us want...via the download method...right now this download industry is in it's infancy as far as multichannel rock offerings is concerned...but the technology will get better and then...just maybe...some of these titles will be released...

But you're overlooking one important point, CLINTY:

IF YOU BUILD IT......They WILL COME!

EJ is still touring and packing the house in VEGAS and other venues during his farewell tour!

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/my1035.com/files/2011/09/127539648.jpg

 

[rtbluray]

AF asked UMG/UMe or whatever they are now about the "missing Elton's". They actually offered them to AF......with a huge "IF". It was too big of an "if" for them to accept.

So they are aware they are there, and Elton is not opposed to them being released. It's purely a numbers game. Purely numbers.

This kind of numbers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That’s good to know that Elton is not opposed to their release.
If only Universal could see what Warner/Rhino did with the Chicago Quadio box set (and the upcoming Doobie Brothers Quadio box set too.)
I guess the only way we might hear those Elton John 5.1 surround mixes in the future is if Universal and Elton decide to put out some big box sets for each album.

I guess AF also tried to get "Pretzel Logic" but it was a similar situation where Universal were demanding too high of a number that AF could not meet (not to mention that apparently Steely Dan would not approve of such a reissue anyway.)

Oh well, like I said before, thank goodness for Rhino. They appear to get it.

 

[rtbluray]

Now what I would like to see is a box set with the titles that weren't released in surround...Rock of The Westies(I have it on Gold CD)...Blue Moves...Caribou and Don't Shoot Me I'm Only the Piano Player....now that is something that would be appealing]

That will probably never happen.
Either they will do a box set with all classic surround titles together or they will release each mix on its own as part of a deluxe edition box set.
I can't see any other scenario besides these.

Oh well, like I've been saying, thank goodness for Rhino. They get it.

 

[4-earredwonder]

As I mentioned in my above Post, Elton John is STILL touring and the ole saying ....Get It While The Iron's HOT has never been more apropos.......It IS his farewell tour so what better time??????

 

[Clint Eastwood]

That will probably never happen.
Either they will do a box set with all classic surround titles together or they will release each mix on its own as part of a deluxe edition box set.
I can't see any other scenario besides these.

Oh well, like I've been saying, thank goodness for Rhino. They get it.

I agree that it won't happen...I think the time when those albums were relevant(for sales not listening)has passed....I'm at the point where I'm just glad to get any title in surround...and I feel we will get some...just not very many...

 

[Scott65]

We don't have to like it but the reality of the market today for these people is clearly outlined below:

They don't want to make this: $$
They want to make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
If they can't make this: $$$$$$$$$$$
Then they'd rather make this: -0-

Pity they dont think like this: $$ > -0-

 

[atrocity]

Pity they dont think like this: $$ > -0-

This is what's always driven me crazy about this whole thing. The potential is there to make SOMETHING instead of NOTHING, but they suffer from Microsoft Syndrome, where anything short of total world domination isn't worth the trouble.

But what do I know? I'm just a retired nobody who gave five rides on Sunday because Lyft guaranteed $40 minimum regardless of the fare. Sure, it was only $40...it also took next to zero effort on my part and I'd have felt stupid if I hadn't done it.

And while I sense this isn't a popular opinion here, I'm perfectly happy with downloads, partly because I keep everything on hard drives anyway and partly because I'm willing to, in a sense, meet the record companies half-way. I assume that NOT having to manufacture and distribute discs and packaging that may or may not sell would save significant up-front costs, in turn making the prospect more appealing. It would also allow them (should they wish) to be format-agnostic and let the buyers choose PCM or DSD. If not having a pressed disc is part of the cost to me of getting the music and part of the incentive for them to provide it, I'm OK with that.

Anticipating one potential record company concern, does anyone know if material from HDTracks or similar vendors winds up on file sharing sites in significant numbers? My gut feeling is that the type of people interested in quad/surround/hi-res are NOT going to rush to share it, but maybe I'm fooling myself.

 

[John Svensson]

Sorry, I want a physical something. I'm not spending my time and effort for the privilege of being sold a product. This is like the coming wave in grocery stores...You want to buy some Rice Crispies? Then go unload our truck, stock the shelf and we'll let you swipe your card and get your a** out the door.

 

[atrocity]

Sorry, I want a physical something.

I'd prefer it. But in the end (apparently unlike the record companies) I'll happily accept something over nothing.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I'd prefer it. But in the end (apparently unlike the record companies) I'll happily accept something over nothing.

AFAIK, at this juncture, the majors aren't releasing pop/rock/jazz music as 5.1 FLAC downloads.....only hi res stereo.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Unfortunately, we seem to be paying for convenience today with digital downloads over buying a disc in some cases. I just got to the point that I can stream CD quality from Tidal, purchase the actual disc with Surround and save money in the long run. $20.00 is a lot less than I’d spend purchasing all the discs I’d want. Plus, I don’t have to store anything. Yes, I still have a lot of Hires downloads that I’ve purchased in the past on hard drives but I seem to be playing them less and less. Will my decision change on how I purchase music in the future? Maybe. It will depend on what that future holds. I haven’t found that fountain of youth yet. So, I’m not getting any younger.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

AFAIK, at this juncture, the majors aren't releasing pop/rock/jazz music as 5.1 FLAC downloads.....only hi res stereo.

If that happens, I may entertain going that route. I probably would rather see someone like Tidal offer surround sound but because of bandwidth, I don’t see that happening any time soon.