Quad Mix Hall Of Shame (A List of Fake and/or Very Conservative Quad mixes)

[sjcorne]

John Lennon- Imagine ?

Also, the Canadian Q8s of all Jim Croce albums EXCEPT the greatest hits are double stereo according to Jon's analysis here https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/jim-croce-canadian-q8s-rca-carts.13301/

 

[Q-Eight]

Both Westbound Q8's (Cosmic Slop & Ecstacy) are very much fake.
However, I'd like to argue that Tony Orlando & Dawn's Greatest Hits is most certainly NOT fake. TWO songs on the album utilize the mono tape (for whatever reason) so obviously those two songs are fake, but the rest of the album is quite discrete. Sort of like the Tommy James Q8 where you have a mix of a real and fake.

One of the Herb Alpert's uses the three-track tapes, while the other is fake. I thought it was the Greatest Hits that was fake but Whipped Cream uses the 3-tracks. I'll have to double check on that one.

(I actually have a digital copy of the 3-track multi to "A taste of Honey"! )

 

[quicksrt]

Great list to have - and could save some folks time and money - that could have been spent on acquiring real quad mixes that are known to impress!

 

[Eggplant]

Very few of those titles are actually fake.
Most of the early A&M’s are just very conservative, as has been discussed before.

Cat Stevens / Greatest Hits is definitely not fake and not as conservative as the other A&M titles listed.
Grand Funk / American Band? Not even close.

Pretel Logic has been discussed in detail before.
It’s real, but VERY conservative. An odd duck.

You missed the first fake quad I ever bought: Chi-Lites / Greatest Hits.
I was extremely disappointed to hear the rears were just delayed fronts.

 

[fredblue]

hmm..

shall we just scrap this thread altogether?

or we could rename it;
"Beware all ye Quaddies! Underwhelming Quad mixes ahead!"

 

[fredblue]

list updated

 

[4-earredwonder]

hmm..

shall we just scrap this thread altogether?

or we could rename it;
"Beware all ye Quaddies! Underwhelming Quad mixes ahead!"

The late, great Orson Welles made a film once entitled F is for FAKE.

Stick to yer guns, Adam, being the NRA gun~toting Brit that you are!

Besides 1/2 of the Silverline "MLP DVD~Audios" being UNABASHED Fakes and the fact that 99% of ALL Classical releases are AMBIENCE ONLY in the rears [to satisfy the PURISTS], you're on the right track.

Lock and load........freddieblue!



If Karen had only eaten her wheaties! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CiAKpx5_Nv4/TzwsvH_5-uI/AAAAAAAAE2E/AuIxs0hq9rA/s1600/Muhammad_Ali.jpg

 

[fredblue]

thread title updated to;

"Quad Mix Hall Of Shame (A List of Fake and/or Very Conservative Quad mixes)"

hope this helps

 

[4-earredwonder]

thread title updated to;

"Quad Mix Hall Of Shame (A List of Fake and/or Very Conservative Quad mixes)"

hope this helps

EH!

IMO, 'Conservative QUAD' ain't fake ........ it's just polite discrete...as in 'paging GILES MARTIN!'adding salt to the Pepper!

 

[fredblue]

EH!

IMO, 'Conservative QUAD' ain't fake ........ it's just polite discrete...as in 'paging GILES MARTIN!'

well, Giles Martin never mixed anything in Quad in the 70's, so we don't have to worry about all that!

the above list is of 70's Quad mixes, either fake or very conservatively mixed.. any suggestions or additions along those lines, let's be 'avin 'em..!!

 

[4-earredwonder]

well, Giles Martin never mixed anything in Quad in the 70's, so we don't have to worry about all that!

the above list is of 70's Quad mixes, either fake or very conservatively mixed.. any suggestions or additions along those lines, let's be 'avin 'em..!!

You're correct, Adam, Giles was probably playing in the QUAD in the 70's. http://aspaceto.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/A-Frame-Quad-1-e1440720443794.jpg

I will definitely come up with some zingers of which THERE ARE MANY.

A worthwhile thread, my compatriot!

 

[fredblue]

You're correct, Adam, Giles was probably playing in the QUAD in the 70's. http://aspaceto.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/A-Frame-Quad-1-e1440720443794.jpg

I will definitely come up with some zingers of which THERE ARE MANY.

A worthwhile thread, my compatriot!

thanks Ralph, you're a champ!

 

[4-earredwonder]

thanks Ralph, you're a champ!

As are you, Adam.

Glad I did EAT MY WHEATIES http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CiAKpx5_Nv4/TzwsvH_5-uI/AAAAAAAAE2E/AuIxs0hq9rA/s1600/Muhammad_Ali.jpg

 

[quicksrt]

Yeah stick with it and don't worry be happy. You can always make corrections later.

 

[Q-Eight]

Grand Funk / American Band is also not fake. Like most of the Capitol Q8's, it's underwhelming. I would also imagine the lack of usable instrument tracks plays a big part. I mean, what can you do with drums, bass, an organ and a guitar? If you listen, the fronts are very dry, the drums are very prominent as well as vocals and organ.
The rears feature (smothered in echo) the vocals, drums but the organ is nowhere near as prominent but the rhythm guitar is very prominent. Lead guitar appears in the front channels with its' echo in the rears. There may also be some vocal splitting front to rear, but it's more a matter of which overdub went where.

If the first song leaves you wondering, the second song on the tape "Stop Lookin' Back", has the drums mixed in more of a "super-stereo" fashion, using all the channels. Organ is very much in the rear but the guitar is front center.

It's not a four-corner, Columbia mix, but it expands the stereo versions a fair bit. It's still quite underwhelming, but maybe that could also be due to some track bleed-through as well. Maybe I was over critical in previous posts, but perhaps a modern attempt at this mix could breathe some new life into it?

(I also believe it to have a swapped channel due to the fact that the indian drums at the end of "Loneliest Rider" pan around in an X (FL, FR, BL, BR) rather than a nice circle around the room.

 

[ubertrout]

I think the Colin Davis recording of the Berlioz Requiem on Pentatone goes essentially into the box of being a "fake quad" even though it's from a authentic quad source. The Berlioz Requiem is written to have four brass choirs ring out from the four corners of the church during the Tuba Mirum, and if you don't use the surround channels for that, you're wasting your time with quad. Contrast with the Abravanel/Utah Vanguard recording, where the quad mix uses the rear channels sparingly except during the Tuba Mirum, giving the explosion of the brass choirs the impact it's supposed to have.

It's a shame because the Colin Davis recording is widely regarded as a top contender in stereo.

 

[Flaquad]

Grand Funk / American Band is also not fake. Like most of the Capitol Q8's, it's underwhelming. I would also imagine the lack of usable instrument tracks plays a big part. I mean, what can you do with drums, bass, an organ and a guitar? If you listen, the fronts are very dry, the drums are very prominent as well as vocals and organ.
The rears feature (smothered in echo) the vocals, drums but the organ is nowhere near as prominent but the rhythm guitar is very prominent. Lead guitar appears in the front channels with its' echo in the rears. There may also be some vocal splitting front to rear, but it's more a matter of which overdub went where.

If the first song leaves you wondering, the second song on the tape "Stop Lookin' Back", has the drums mixed in more of a "super-stereo" fashion, using all the channels. Organ is very much in the rear but the guitar is front center.

It's not a four-corner, Columbia mix, but it expands the stereo versions a fair bit. It's still quite underwhelming, but maybe that could also be due to some track bleed-through as well. Maybe I was over critical in previous posts, but perhaps a modern attempt at this mix could breathe some new life into it?

(I also believe it to have a swapped channel due to the fact that the indian drums at the end of "Loneliest Rider" pan around in an X (FL, FR, BL, BR) rather than a nice circle around the room.

Perceptive observation! In the book An American Band: The Story of Grand Funk Railroad by Billly James Grand Funk drummer Don Brewer explained that they tried a quad mix on their last power trio album E Pluribus Funk (1971) but he did not like it:

"We tried quad on E Pluribus Funk and it took a long time...unless you do an exceptional amount of overdubbing where you've got three guitars playing and two bass lines playing and everything and you use a lot of orchestration, it sounds empty to me, at least for rock music. You have to really use a lot of fill-in stuff, it just splits everything up too much. I think it'll eventuallly happen. They keep making improvements on it so that it's not so alienated and empty." (pg. 65)

 

[Q-Eight]

Perceptive observation! In the book An American Band: The Story of Grand Funk Railroad by Billly James Grand Funk drummer Don Brewer explained that they tried a quad mix on their last power trio album E Pluribus Funk (1971) but he did not like it:

"We tried quad on E Pluribus Funk and it took a long time...unless you do an exceptional amount of overdubbing where you've got three guitars playing and two bass lines playing and everything and you use a lot of orchestration, it sounds empty to me, at least for rock music. You have to really use a lot of fill-in stuff, it just splits everything up too much. I think it'll eventuallly happen. They keep making improvements on it so that it's not so alienated and empty." (pg. 65)

Yep. In that case, you'd be relying on a lot of drum tracks to fill the channels and, in most cases, it's way too difficult to filter out leakage on drum tracks. So, the snare mic will still pick up the kicker among others, the tom mics will pick up the snare.... it becomes not so discrete if you're trying to mix in Quad. Or worse, spreads it out so thin, you can barely hear the drum kit when everything gets going! The mix they've given us.... meh, it could be better - but it could be worse!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yep. In that case, you'd be relying on a lot of drum tracks to fill the channels and, in most cases, it's way too difficult to filter out leakage on drum tracks. So, the snare mic will still pick up the kicker among others, the tom mics will pick up the snare.... it becomes not so discrete if you're trying to mix in Quad. Or worse, spreads it out so thin, you can barely hear the drum kit when everything gets going! The mix they've given us.... meh, it could be better - but it could be worse!

I would think in a Steve Wilson or Elliot Scheiner's hands they'd figure it out. Because now all those instruments are crammed into two stereo channels...instead of FIVE. Just doesn't make sense!

And I was under the impression that drum kits are recorded in isolation booths so leakage won't occur.

 

[quicksrt]

I would think in a Steve Wilson or Elliot Scheiner's hands they'd figure it out. Because now all those instruments are crammed into two stereo channels...instead of FIVE. Just doesn't make sense!

And I was under the impression that drum kits are recorded in isolation booths so leakage won't occur.

No, there are not enough instruments crammed into the stereo spread with regards to Grand Funk Railroad. The band is a very basic stripped down affair unless it's a track with orchestra or more than usual setup. Quad is very revealing and can sound empty and exposed was the point made.