Inexpensive all in one player

Happened to look at the latest AAFES catalog and it lists a new Pioneer DV-655A DVD player that supports both DVD-A and SACD and you can purchase it at the base for $239! Now unless that price is a misprint, that's a hell of a deal.
Here's a link to one on another site:
shop.store.yahoo.com/jbro.../1071.html

Price says $581.00 and change
Rob

I would hold on just a little more. Pioneer is releasing a cheap universal player soon in the UK. The last I heard, the equivalent retail price is around US$270. Hopefully, there will be a US model soon after.

www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/dv563/index.htm

I have heard that the cheap universal players convert DSD to PCM at the expense of SACD quality. If it is just about multichannel reproduction that would be fine, but if you are interested in sound quality you should keep this in mind. I do know that Pioneer has done this in the past, so I would check it out first.

Mike.

Could you give a little more detail on this? I'm not up to speed. What is DSD? And I thought that SACD used PCM so how could it be degraded. Am I wrong? Finally, how does one know if a particualr DVD player has these problems. Maybe I don't know enough to ask the right questions. :x

Direct Stream Digital is the recording method that is used for SACD, as opposed to PCM on DVD-Audio. The prevailing opinion is that DSD sounds better. Whether it does or it doesn't is likely subjective, but it can't be beneficial to convert from one to the other in terms of overall sound quality.

Since it would be expensive to add both to a universal player, I have read that the cheaper ones (the Pioneers have been mentioned) convert DSD to PCM to save the cost of the additional circuitry. I don't know much more about it than that. I do know that my two (SACD only) Sony players sound better than the few universal players I have taken home to try.

Brian Moura my be able to shed some more light.
What is your opinion Brian?

Mike.

I believe that most combo players (not just the cheap ones) convert DSD to PCM. You need to be very careful and do your homework before you settle on a combo player. Another "gotcha" is that most combo players will support surround sound of one format but not the other (usually surround support for DVD-A but only stereo support for SACD). Again, be very careful and do your homework!

In the final analysis, it may be better to get two cheap players (one for either format) instead of a single cheap combo player that makes necessary compromises. However, a more expensive (and presumably better) combo player may still out-peform the cheaper dedicated players for their respective formats, and still compare favorably to the price of two "cheap" players.

Also, conversion of DSD to PCM probably won't make a noticeable difference for the vast majority of consumers, but it is a concession that I would never make. It's just another level of conversion taking you farther from the source.

Correct. Direct Stream Digital (DSD) is the recording and storage format used for SACD while DVD-Audio discs use PCM.

Pioneer was criticised by many for doing a DSD -> PCM conversion in its first SACD/DVD-A player. So potential buyers of such players now ask if such a conversion occurs.

You'll also want to run the outputs of an SACD player through an analog input to preserve the analog quality of playback.

I learned this first hand when switching my SACD player's output from a Meridian 861 (where an analog -> PCM step occurred) to the Meitner Switchman II (where the signal stayed analog). Bottom line: big improvement !

>>Direct Stream Digital is the recording method that is used for SACD, as opposed to PCM on DVD-Audio. The prevailing opinion is that DSD sounds better. Whether it does or it doesn't is likely subjective, but it can't be beneficial to convert from one to the other in terms of overall sound quality.

Since it would be expensive to add both to a universal player, I have read that the cheaper ones (the Pioneers have been mentioned) convert DSD to PCM to save the cost of the additional circuitry. I don't know much more about it than that. I do know that my two (SACD only) Sony players sound better than the few universal players I have taken home to try.

Brian Moura my be able to shed some more light.
What is your opinion Brian?

My brother just ordered the Pioneer DV-655A through the Navy Exchange catalog for me for only $170 direct from Japan, including shipping. It's apparently Region Free and does automatic PAL conversion. What Hi Fi gave this player a glowing review. It supposedly has very hi end Crystal Semiconductor DACs, so I'm pretty stoked. And to think I was about to spend $120 on some piece of crap generic international DVD player on line last week.

It looks like the North American 45a. If this is true you will enjoy it. I have had one for about 4 months now and I also know other people that have one. It is killer in DVD-A, DVD-V and CD playback. The DSD to PCM conversion may be a concern to you for SACD. However in the last few weeks I have heard SACD on a stand alone Sony player with discs that I have and I personally would not worry about this. Becks "Sea Change" on my system (45a) killed the standalone Sony playback mainly in detailing. I am just saying that I don't think you should worry about it for now. Enjoy!

I think the Pioneer DV655A(Asia-Pacific)/656A(Europe)/45A(US) is a native SACD player, unlike the lesser models. They run Burr Brown PCM1738 and (in the case of the 655/6 models' rear and centre channels) DSD1702 DACs, both of which are native DSD chips I think, so no down-conversion occurs. This contrasts with earlier Pioneer universal players which (I think) used Crystal DACs.

Even if it does down-convert, the Pioneer universal does an incredible job for the money...

The 45a uses these same Burr-Brown chips.

Ok, I got the DV-655A through the Military Exchange Catalog and have run it for a couple of weeks now. All I can say is it is the best $240 (bought it before it went on sale!) I've spent on my system!

It has played everything I've thrown at it flawlessly. Easy to set-up, amazingly easy to use........load a disc, push play, listen.....whether its multichannel SACD, DVD-A, DTS cd, DTS cdr. My only complaint is that it doesn't play Dolby Digital cdrs.....but then again, no other player with built-in decoder will recognize them either (illegal format for DD).

A couple of main points:

1) It plays SACD High Rez...no PCM conversion. Of course the High Rez is only available out of the analog outputs...no DSD out the digital......but who cares? I don't have anything that would take a DSD stream anyway!

2) It does have bass management built-in......Hoorah!

3) It will "downmix" the center channel if you program it for no center channel........Absolutely great!!

I guess the consensus is that the 655A is the international model of the U.S. model DV-45A. I would note that it IS NOT the same as the 656A.....which is the identical chassis but without the multichannel SACD capability (and a lower price).
So, whether you can get your hands on the 655A for a really great price, or the DV-45A for a good price.....I would highly recommend these players.
Also, I was highly pleased that my restored QRX-999 handled the high resolution analog output just fine, and really "warmed" up my Klipsch LaScallas!
Ok......you're on a budget and want a killer quad setup?
Get yourself:
1) Quad receiver or 4channel separates of your choice
2) 4 matching speakers you like
3) Pioneer DV-45A or 655A
4) Room on your credit card for SACD and DVD-A releases when they finally come out!
5) Make friends with a couple of the good DTS converters around this board and get as many CDRs as you can!!

Enjoy the Hell out of it!!:rollin:

There is no way you're going to get better quad or 5.1 for the $$ than doing the above! And, to think I spent 20 years tweeking, experimenting.......and searching for good music!! And, then they come along and do this to us.....a great player for a great price......that will play all the digital quad formats we have available!
Forgive me oh great God of Quad........I even bought the Rolling Stones Hot Rocks and Best of the Byrds on STEREO SACD......just because I had to hear the High Rez release!!! I'm so ashamed:evil:

"Quad" Bob

I think I am starting to sound like a broken record as I have extolled the virtues of the 45a on various threads on this board for the past (almost) 6 months. I have been using it that long and it never ceases to amaze me. It has never had a problem with any disc that I have thrown at it and most of the time I leave the video out off and just play the music, even for DVD-A. The sound is fabulous for all formats. I use the 6 analog outs for everything. The receiver remote only does volume now. The other thing I adjust is my subwoofer volume on the back of the subwoofer. It's a beautiful and simple life now. I paid a whole lot more for my unit 6 months ago (about $900 Cdn including the taxes) but you know what, it was worth that much and still is. It has lasted about 2 months more than any other player that I have had and I will have it a lot longer.

"Quad" Bob if you really want to hear some good stereo SACD's get Security and "#3" of the Peter Gabriel discs. For stereo, I could not believe what these sound like.

Just to thoroughly confuse matters, Pioneer employers the DV-656A moniker on two different players.

In Europe, the 656A is like the 45A Elite except that in lieu of progressive scan, it has two RGB Scart outputs.

In the US, the 656A is a level below the 656A in Europe in that it does not handle SACD.

Say What?8o That figures! It's getting to be you need an Engineering Degree just figure out what's what!
0] Rob

I believe that I saw the Euro version of the 656a in a new Crutchfield catlog for $199.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>and really "warmed" up my Klipsch LaScallas![/quote]

Droooool! I've been wanting those speakers for as long as I can remember!
Brian