King Crimson DVD-A Discussion

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Which KC albums are the best? What 5.1 versions to buy first for an introduction?

Get "In the Court of the Crimson King" & "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" for sure!
I would also say to get "Red" too, but since it looks like another reissue of that album is imminent, maybe wait on that one. :)
 
Get "In the Court of the Crimson King" & "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" for sure!
I would also say to get "Red" too, but since it looks like another reissue of that album is imminent, maybe wait on that one. :)

+1 for ITCOTCK- let's start at the very beginning- a very good place to start. Arguably their best.
 
Very important phase, has anybody come across the list of the six shows specifically chosen?

I haven't seen anything yet, but it appears that at least of the material is new transfers of some of the Great Deceiver stuff and (yippee!) there looks to be hi-res included....I'm guessing/hoping Neil will let us in on it all as soon as he is allowed to, but I'm guessing his earlier hints of there being some live stuff in the series of reissues is coming to fruition - David Singleton's June 12th diary:

The mastering of the first batch of 1974 KIng Crimson shows is now complete - the next task is the high resolution masters. Rather strange to be revisiting tapes that I first mixed a life time ago in 1991 for the Great Deceiver box set. Back then they were mixed onto half inch tape, then transferred into SADIE (a very early digital editor), before being mastered back onto half inch tape, and then finally mastered for CD at the Townhouse. For the new version, I am going back to the original mixes, which were entirely analogue (meaning that we can create a genuinely high resolution master). It also means that I am going back before the mixes were mastered by Tpny Arnold at The Courthouse and Ian Cooper at The Townhouse - two very good mastering engineers, so something of a challenge to ensure that they sound as good or better.
 
Lizard is the best King Crimson album.... IMHO, YMMV :eek:

If you want something more modern go for Discipline.... (as well as those mentioned above)...
 
Get "In the Court of the Crimson King" & "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" for sure!
I would also say to get "Red" too, but since it looks like another reissue of that album is imminent, maybe wait on that one. :)

commercially i would go with that though Lizard is my favorite
 
Get "In the Court of the Crimson King" & "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" for sure!
I would also say to get "Red" too, but since it looks like another reissue of that album is imminent, maybe wait on that one. :)

I would agree with this. ItCotCK is far from my favorite, but it is the first KC album, and since it is such a classic you should definitely give it a listen. Larks' is my favorite KC album, and it gives you a good sampling from that period of KC. Finally, I recommend Discipline. It is my second favorite KC album, and is the best of the 3 albums from that period (the 80s).

Those 3 albums are very different from each other. Robert Fripp is the only constant in the band. If one of those doesn't tickle your fancy, move on to the next. I am sure you will find something you like.

Lizard is probably the most polarizing KC album in the catalog. Many say it is their favorite, but many also hate it. If you are a jazz fan, then this may become your favorite too. But, I still wouldn't recommend it as the album to start with in the KC catalog. It may scare you away completely :)
 
Andrew Keeling has prepared incredibly comprehensive books of musical analysis for the albums he deemed the most important in the King Crimson catalog. These include: In The Court Of the Crimson King, In The Wake Of Poseidon (+McDonald/Giles) and Larks' Tongues In Aspic. These are fantastic reads for fans of the band and music lovers in general.

I agree with the recommendation to start with Court and then Larks & Discipline; it will be easier to absorb the rest and put them into perspective. It's a classic and everybody should have at least one copy!
 
Which KC albums are the best? What 5.1 versions to buy first for an introduction?

The Court of the Crimson King was done in 1967. These guys were making this stuff when I was still in HS. Left in 68. And King Crimson was already established. here we are- 46 yrs later-still listening. And you thought the Stones were old?
 
The Court of the Crimson King was done in 1967. These guys were making this stuff when I was still in HS. Left in 68. And King Crimson was already established. here we are- 46 yrs later-still listening. And you thought the Stones were old?

Not to be too anal about it but Court was 1969....still, does't diminish the point you're making!
 
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=4240

The Road to Red...is built from this...
RoadToRed1.jpg
Stay tuned for more details soon...

As excited as I am about the release of this box set (especially if it contains Blu-Ray like the Larks' box set), I will nonetheless be disappointed if that means that the release of "Beat", "Three of a Perfect Pair", and "THRAK" will be delayed by another year (at least).
I hope DGM releases (at least) one of the above 3 as well this year too.
My ears (and more importantly my wallet) would prefer a new surround mix over one we already have and enjoy.
Just my thoughts on it...
 
Has there been any discussion on a corrected 5.1 mix of Red?
The 1st disc and the replacement they sent (which turned out to be identical) have weird, very unmusical distortions. Entirely unlistenable.

I originally thought that these were just not so good after the fact surround remixes and moved on. (Actually the remixes of LTIA and SABB sound small and clunky compared to the original stereo mixes on the DVD's too. But not outright flawed like the Red disc.) Kind of a bummer as these are by far my favorite KC albums.

But now that I've heard more Steve Wilson remixes... this just doesn't add up. Are all 3 of these discs flawed like the first Tull TAAB DVD?

His remixes of Lizard and Islands make the original stereo mixes sound like appalling demos! I'd like to have that experience with these 3 albums too.
 
Has there been any discussion on a corrected 5.1 mix of Red?
The 1st disc and the replacement they sent (which turned out to be identical) have weird, very unmusical distortions. Entirely unlistenable.

I originally thought that these were just not so good after the fact surround remixes and moved on. (Actually the remixes of LTIA and SABB sound small and clunky compared to the original stereo mixes on the DVD's too. But not outright flawed like the Red disc.) Kind of a bummer as these are by far my favorite KC albums.

But now that I've heard more Steve Wilson remixes... this just doesn't add up. Are all 3 of these discs flawed like the first Tull TAAB DVD?

His remixes of Lizard and Islands make the original stereo mixes sound like appalling demos! I'd like to have that experience with these 3 albums too.
I did just play Red and it is fine on my OPPO 105. But your comment got me thinking because my dvd-a of "Anathema: We're Here Because we're Here" had the same issue as your Red. I just could not listen to it because of all the bad distortion. That was when I was using my Pioneer 79avi. I recently got the Oppo 105 so I just played Anathema for the first time and it sounds fine - it's a whole new disc. So I wonder - is your player at fault?
 
Which KC albums are the best? What 5.1 versions to buy first for an introduction?

In the Court and Starless & Bible Black . The latter has the bonus attribute of being a mix of superb live and studio performances.

Red is overrated and it's always sounded to me like the band was a bit exhausted and repeating itself by then.
 
I haven't seen anything yet, but it appears that at least of the material is new transfers of some of the Great Deceiver stuff and (yippee!) there looks to be hi-res included....I'm guessing/hoping Neil will let us in on it all as soon as he is allowed to, but I'm guessing his earlier hints of there being some live stuff in the series of reissues is coming to fruition - David Singleton's June 12th diary:

I would hope Asbury Park June 1974 (the source of most of USA) makes the cut.
 
Has there been any discussion on a corrected 5.1 mix of Red?
The 1st disc and the replacement they sent (which turned out to be identical) have weird, very unmusical distortions. Entirely unlistenable.

I originally thought that these were just not so good after the fact surround remixes and moved on. (Actually the remixes of LTIA and SABB sound small and clunky compared to the original stereo mixes on the DVD's too. But not outright flawed like the Red disc.) Kind of a bummer as these are by far my favorite KC albums.

But now that I've heard more Steve Wilson remixes... this just doesn't add up. Are all 3 of these discs flawed like the first Tull TAAB DVD?


No. S&BB doesn't sound small or clunky to me. 'Side 2' (the title track and Fracture) in surround, played at appropriate volume, are devastating. Larks suffers for me mainly because the material is so very familiar (I used to play part II in a band) and, compared to S&BB, it's more 'pastoral'.


His remixes of Lizard and Islands make the original stereo mixes sound like appalling demos! I'd like to have that experience with these 3 albums too.

Well those 3 were better records in the first place!
 
I did just play Red and it is fine on my OPPO 105. But your comment got me thinking because my dvd-a of "Anathema: We're Here Because we're Here" had the same issue as your Red. I just could not listen to it because of all the bad distortion. That was when I was using my Pioneer 79avi. I recently got the Oppo 105 so I just played Anathema for the first time and it sounds fine - it's a whole new disc. So I wonder - is your player at fault?


Well, what would differ between players to account for this? Are you guys still using analog outs in this day and age? If so, the output voltage can vary between players, conceivably (though it shouldn't happen) causing distortion from one and not the other.
 
I did just play Red and it is fine on my OPPO 105. But your comment got me thinking because my dvd-a of "Anathema: We're Here Because we're Here" had the same issue as your Red. I just could not listen to it because of all the bad distortion. That was when I was using my Pioneer 79avi. I recently got the Oppo 105 so I just played Anathema for the first time and it sounds fine - it's a whole new disc. So I wonder - is your player at fault?

Well, my 'player' is an Apogee Rosetta800 192k. I absolutely guarantee the data stream is not corrupted (ripped to flac files like any/all DVDA or blu-ray surround releases). No chance of corruption. These 3 5.1 remixes sound 'legitimate' in the same way the flawed Tull TAAB disc sounded 'legitimate'. No obvious digital corruption or noises. It just sounds like a very poor mix (Red being by far the worst).

But also note that the extra live tracks on the Red disc sound amazing. Other moments on these 3 remixes sound quite good too. I honestly thought these were just so-so remixes thrown on the discs as bonus tracks (because you can't have a DVDA without a surround mix right?). With the exception of the extra live bonus tracks on the Red disc and some of the tracks on SABB, the original stereo mixes for these 3 albums mastered to 24/96 blow the remixes out of the water (listening thru the same Apogee converters).

But like I said, now that I've heard more of Mr. Wilson's work, this just doesn't seem reasonable anymore.

I even loaded the tracks into a DAW to look at. They sound exactly the same played back thru ProtoolsHD and Reaper as they do thru Songbird - as they should and as as all other surround program I own does. No shenanigans with my system.


Am I really the odd man out here? Even though I think every other remix I've heard by this gentleman was spot on?

Something has to have gone wrong in the mastering here...
 
Lets see. Red includes the seminal cuts Red and Starless and sounds like a resurgence is under way. OTOH Fripp commented that during the making of Starless And Bible Black that the energy level reached such a low level, there was some question as to continuing. The reason that SABB is half live was due to a lack of new studio material. All these records have their strengths, it's a matter of taste.
 
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