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Thread: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc!!

  1. #276
    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    I never ventured into digital tape formats, although I got into recordable a/v discs early on. I still have lots of tape gear, though I favor digital formats and LP's. Also embraced hard drives. my main system has three, and I own six total, nine inclucing PC's.

    For awhile, we sold large quantities of DAT's to data shops when I was in the computer industry. At that time, there were data cartridges with far higher capacity, which we sold in mega quantities to large data shops. Optical media obsoleted all the computer tape formats. Sorry, if I'm now reminiscing about a whole 'nother business.

    For photos & more info on Triad/That's cassettes: http://vintagecassettes.com/triad_thats/triad_thats.htm
    KWAD KITTY

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    700 Club - QQ All Star jaybird100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    One of my prized pieces of gear is a Sansui QSE-5B quad encoder. I've made some great QS-encoded recordings with it from discrete sources so I could play them where a discrete source couldn't go. When I had the DAT player in my car, I also had a Fosgate Audionics "Gavotte II" car surround processor, which did a great job decoding the QS matrix. It also did a great job synthesizing surround from stereo sources. Alas, it drowned when my car sprung a leak.
    Give me surround or give me silence!

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    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Now THAT's way cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird100 View Post
    One of my prized pieces of gear is a Sansui QSE-5B quad encoder. I've made some great QS-encoded recordings with it from discrete sources so I could play them where a discrete source couldn't go. When I had the DAT player in my car, I also had a Fosgate Audionics "Gavotte II" car surround processor, which did a great job decoding the QS matrix. It also did a great job synthesizing surround from stereo sources. Alas, it drowned when my car sprung a leak.
    KWAD KITTY

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star elmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    Ditto, Jaybird. We sold Triad, which was That's alter ego. I still have several. I thought they were great tapes. I rarely play a cassette anymore. I have over 1000, nearly all are mix tapes, my Oz series. Figure it out! The later projects were dbx encoded, which made them more unforgiving on dropouts. 1/3 of them are dbx, which can blow CD out of the water, especially LP transfers from my Ortofon MC cartridge. dbx LP's transferred to dbx reel or cassette are spectacular. I also had a Concord car fi w/dbx module.

    How long has it been since this thread discussed Bob or Quadio? Perhaps I just did.


    Yes, Elmer, they were the good ol' days.
    Triad was actually Taiyo Yuden's first attempt in the US - it was sold and distributed by Harmon Kardon. With That's it was a redesign and a foolish attempt to go direct - head to head with TDK, Maxell, Sony & Denon. All of the type II tapes were pretty comparable, give or take. They were trying to hang their hat on the Metal Bias Sonos tape -which was quite good if I say so myself - but they didn't have the marketing guns to go up against the big boys - it was a fun trip but a short one.

    And yes, we have driven this thread completely off it's original course - and I will share equal blame for that - perhaps it should be renamed. " Say farewell to Bob Vosqien - we hardly knew ye!'

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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by elmer View Post
    I don't mean to be obtuse, but I'm not sure what you mean.
    I mean, if the argument for not buying a BR player is "well there's just not enough stuff to play on it," that argument changes rather quickly if we're including movies as well.

  6. #281
    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    What's a BR player? Ah, you must mean Big Records. SQ or CD-4? lol!! When my kids were little, that's what they called 12" vinyl, my Big Records.

    Quote Originally Posted by DKA View Post
    I mean, if the argument for not buying a BR player is "well there's just not enough stuff to play on it," that argument changes rather quickly if we're including movies as well.
    KWAD KITTY

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star elmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by DKA View Post
    I mean, if the argument for not buying a BR player is "well there's just not enough stuff to play on it," that argument changes rather quickly if we're including movies as well.
    Well, I'm including movies, yeah. Why wouldn't I? I was responding to the comments "Not got into blu-ray as there is not enough good quality product Audio or Video" or "I don't buy into the image "quality" so I'll only get it if there is more BD Audio. I take these comments to mean that Blu Ray doesn't offer a superior visual experience nor is there enough content available to justify the purchase of a player - when to my ears and eyes that is simply not the case. The surround experience on a Blu Ray movie can be spectacular - even if you hate James Cameron and the concept of Avatar the movie, even in 2D it is a spectacular visual accomplishment. It also presents an unparalleled surround experience that I can have in my home using a player that costs less the $100. There are many more great BR experiences both movie and concert video (as I stated in my previous post). So, the argument that there isn't enough good quality audio or video quality BD content out there - just doesn't ring true to me.

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    500 Club - QQ All Star grill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Avatar on 3D TV is still fanatastic (although not an IMAX 3D experience ofc). Wish the blu-ray technology would have already been discovered in the quad era!

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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by elmer View Post
    Triad was actually Taiyo Yuden's first attempt in the US - it was sold and distributed by Harmon Kardon. With That's it was a redesign and a foolish attempt to go direct - head to head with TDK, Maxell, Sony & Denon. All of the type II tapes were pretty comparable, give or take. They were trying to hang their hat on the Metal Bias Sonos tape -which was quite good if I say so myself - but they didn't have the marketing guns to go up against the big boys - it was a fun trip but a short one.

    And yes, we have driven this thread completely off it's original course - and I will share equal blame for that - perhaps it should be renamed. " Say farewell to Bob Vosqien - we hardly knew ye!'
    We may have gone off-course, but it's a pretty lively discussion. And I agree, if he was still around, we probably chased Bob off.
    Give me surround or give me silence!

  10. #285
    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    We are DERAILING the thread, my fellow QQ mates!

    BD image quality should have another thread....

    Back on track...Mr. Vosgien; if you are there, would keep us up to date and at least tell us where you are ( Capitol??? Which dept,?) and what might be the future of Quad releases?

    Cheers....
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
    -------------------------------------
    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star winopener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird100 View Post
    I remember That's tape; I worked in a store that sold it. I also tried it, and it really wasn't all that bad, but clearly there were better ones out there. I usually preferred Maxell or TDK.
    I've recorded hundreds of That's tapes back in the days, and while in term of absolute performance the edge on Chrome was still on Basf CHD2, they performed quite well and could be pushed up in levels more than any other before going into saturation.
    What made a big yes for me with That's tape was the quality/price ratio: for ferro tapes, normally used in cars etc, the That's FX was miles better than any other Ferro 120uS tape with a low price more.

  12. #287
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star winopener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by elmer View Post
    Back in the day, I worked for a little company called Taiyo Yuden - they were introducing a new CD recording audio tape called That's (That's was a disaster - and my introduction to the CE business). To attract crowds to our booth at CES in Chicago, we did a live demonstration of Recordable CD technology complete with Japanese engineers in white lab coats - and a very talented buddy of mine playing a Midi Synth set-up live as proof. The CD-R set-up was a real Rube Goldberg contraption the size of a small refrigerator with a rather complex Sonic Solutions authoring set-up. This was the first demonstration of Recordable CD technology in the US- ah the good ol' days!
    Year of that demo?

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    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    El Capitan, ever the gentleman!

    Bob, if you're still here, on the "Listening to in surround" thread, CTA is perhaps my most listened to surround album. The Quadio release was mastered well, albeit lossy. I've always marvelled that the mix on CTA is great, perhaps better than some of the other Chicago albums. I always loved it on SQ.

    Yes, the BD, Triad/That's discusssions should be moved to it's own thread. Winopener, I should let Elmer answer, my guess is mid '90's, perhaps '95 on that CD-R demo at CES. Elmer, what's the REAL answer? In the mid 80's, I recall a demonstration at CES of a 5 1/4" floppy disc recording digital audio. The poor inventor sat at a keyboard DESPERATELY trying to get it to work. "Prediction and proof" is a key concept in selling a/v gear. "Now you'll notice that it does/sounds/looks like thus..." It had better do what you predicted, or you're sunk!

    We had a promo on BASF ferri-chrome: 4 tapes and a padded carrying case. I bought several, with car stereo in mind. The tapes sounded great, but weren't durable. They developed dropouts pretty quickly. A couple years later, I returned to ferri-chrome, this time with Denon. Those tapes WERE durable and sounded great!

    When this train runs off the track, it won't be back no more. - The (New Orleans) Radiators

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    We are DERAILING the thread, my fellow QQ mates!

    BD image quality should have another thread....

    Back on track...Mr. Vosgien; if you are there, would keep us up to date and at least tell us where you are ( Capitol??? Which dept,?) and what might be the future of Quad releases?

    Cheers....
    KWAD KITTY

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    300 Club - QQ All Star vinylguy4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    We are DERAILING the thread, my fellow QQ mates!

    Back on track...Mr. Vosgien; if you are there, would keep us up to date and at least tell us where you are ( Capitol??? Which dept,?) and what might be the future of Quad releases?

    Cheers....
    I don't have anything to add about BV's quad releases.
    I did get the 2012 Grammy's CD, was mastered by Robert Vosgien at Capitol Mastering.
    He's still around, but paying the bills with stereo.

    vinylguy4

  15. #290
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star elmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by winopener View Post
    Year of that demo?
    1988/89 - I have a demo CD-R somewhere with Carlos Alomar playing a short piece on the original That's CD-R promo piece. But the Chicago CES demo was definitely the first one done live.

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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by winopener View Post
    I've recorded hundreds of That's tapes back in the days, and while in term of absolute performance the edge on Chrome was still on Basf CHD2, they performed quite well and could be pushed up in levels more than any other before going into saturation.
    What made a big yes for me with That's tape was the quality/price ratio: for ferro tapes, normally used in cars etc, the That's FX was miles better than any other Ferro 120uS tape with a low price more.
    The only problem I had with That's tapes was too many dropouts. I used a deck with variable bias adjustment and got great sound on the recordings, but they started developing severe dropouts after relatively few playings. Other tapes didn't have that problem.
    Give me surround or give me silence!

  17. #292
    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    My experience with Triad/That's was quite the opposite. I used both bias adj. and test tones on two 3-head decks, first on a Kenwood KX-1030, later with a H/K CD-401, which I still own. Tapes were encoded through a dbx 224, which effectively renders a dropout twice as soft. Most playback was on my Concord car-fi w/dbx, the rest on various decks in our store. As I mentioned earlier, BASF ferrichrome was the most dropout prone, and that was without dbx!! Car CD was a comedown after this!

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird100 View Post
    The only problem I had with That's tapes was too many dropouts. I used a deck with variable bias adjustment and got great sound on the recordings, but they started developing severe dropouts after relatively few playings. Other tapes didn't have that problem.
    KWAD KITTY

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    700 Club - QQ All Star jaybird100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    I had the best results with Maxell and TDK tapes. Once I had a recorder that was able to use metal tapes, I pretty much used them exclusively. I got great sound from them, and they sounded quite good in the car, too. It's a shame Philips wouldn't allow unidirectional quad cassettes. Discrete quad on a cassette may have kept things going a good bit longer. With good tape, discrete quad cassettes would have sounded terrific.
    Give me surround or give me silence!

  19. #294
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Oh My. This thread is so depressing to read through from the beginning.

    Such joy, hope and disbelief that too suddenly vanished like a ghost in the night. Damn corporations, they giveth and the quickly and swiftly taketh away.
    It really makes you want to scream. First off, the chances of a program like this (Quadio) coming to fruition are so damn remote, to actually have it happen, then suddenly be pulled away like a carrot on a stick is bewildering.

    So close, yet so far. Close to the Edge, you might say......

    Well, at least we have that one coming, thanks to SW and NW.
    :-jon

  20. #295
    formerly "quadwreck" too
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    The only solution is an independent label dedicated to surround mixes, just like what Mobile Fidelity, Audio Fidelity (etc) do for audiophiles.

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    700 Club - QQ All Star jaybird100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadwreck View Post
    The only solution is an independent label dedicated to surround mixes, just like what Mobile Fidelity, Audio Fidelity (etc) do for audiophiles.
    I thought we had that with Koch, but what have they done lately?
    Give me surround or give me silence!

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    Signal Initiator Perpendicular's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    How about Music Valet? At the rate he's going, we might get one release per year.
    OPPO BETA GROUP

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star 0tto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    i'm strongly believe that holy place won't be vacant for too long.
    vanishing of record labels and swallowing of their archives by UMG, Sony and WEA happened because of poor sales of
    music in general.
    those big 3 now holding huge catalogs but not yet done anything to recoup such expenditure. if you have noticed, lately
    there are very much actions, which hints that they now in search of new forms and models of doing business.
    hopefully surround releases is a part which got their attention as well. at least past and present years saw
    unprecedented amount of surround titles after almost 10 years of dead calm since early 2000-ish.

  24. #299
    Masters of Fine Listening rtbluray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadwreck View Post
    The only solution is an independent label dedicated to surround mixes, just like what Mobile Fidelity, Audio Fidelity (etc) do for audiophiles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
    How about Music Valet? At the rate he's going, we might get one release per year.
    Well the truth is, we already have two independent labels that while they are not strictly dedicated to producing 5.1 mixes have done a great job of getting the majority of the recent mixes out on the marketplace for all of us to enjoy.
    These labels are Kscope (with Steven Wilson, Nosound, Blackfield, Katatonia, Anathema, etc) and DGM/Panegyric (with King Crimson, XTC, Yes, The Vicar, etc), not to mention of course all of the other Steven Wilson mixes completed for other labels like Sony (with ELP), Chrysalis (with Jethro Tull), and CherryTree (with Hawkwind).

    As good as Richard's intentions may be with Music Valet (and as much as everyone else on here, including myself, support him), chances are unless he is able to get a 5.1 mix of an earth-shatteringly significant album made, he's not gonna make enough sales to survive in the marketplace by ONLY selling 5.1 mixes.
    Stereo is still the norm and we all still listen to stereo when we can't get access to 5.1, like on computers, iPods, and cars, so only providing a 5.1 mix is probably not a financial safezone, especially giving how much music sales have dropped off since the millennium.

    The CD/DVD-A and CD/Blu-Ray releases that have been or will be released are our best chances to help give 5.1 surround a proper bounce back.

    Surround yourself with the best.

    Coming in 2014: "Trilogy" (ELP), "Beat" (King Crimson), "Drums & Wires" (XTC), "Relayer" (Yes), and more!

  25. #300
    Signal Initiator Perpendicular's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc

    Well then, Richard's intentions may be to find that album that no one else would think or want to do in surround. And maybe he's not doing it for financial reasons alone. This may be the reason why we might not see any new releases via Music Valet for a while and they could come in 1-2 at a time.
    OPPO BETA GROUP

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