Apple “Mac” Multi-Channel Production and Playback Surround Sound Infomation

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Old Quad Guy

Quadraphonic Preservation
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Hopefully we can help Apple users with Multi-Channel production and playback on their Apple computers.

One thing as an Apple fan since 1990 (first used Mac Plus with 4 Meg RAM) I’ve always been discouraged by the fact Windows machines always seem to have more options with software / hardware. That’s to be expected since 85% of all computers are PC. You can now get a Windows tower fully loaded with powerful computing power for around $500. I also felt “in the dark” without knowing the Windows operating system. But I’ve always liked the smooth interface of Apple computers and never had any virus problems until I owned a Windows PC. In the end, IMHO I’ve found both systems great and productive to use, not really that much difference. So even if you don’t own an Apple computer, let’s try to help our Apple friends get hooked up with Multi-Channel. And if you’re an Apple person with Multi-Channel information please post. Thanks.

Apple computers with Intel chips are able to run Windows with Apple’s Boot Camp : http://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp/ and should give “Mac” users even more options. Multi-Channel options are out there even if you’re using a Power Mac 8500 or G3 / G4. There are sound cards, audio programs and system software that will work with them. So we're going to try and help.

The first place Apple users should check out is Apple’s message board and post questions there. If you do, please give us the good word with links. Again, thanks in advance.

 
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Soundtrack Pro 3 allows Apple users to mix in Multi-Channel:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/surround-mixing.html

Quote:
"Soundtrack Pro 3. Comprehensive 5.1 Surround Support. Build a cinematic soundtrack for your theatrical film or make even a modest project sound as if it belongs in the theater. Soundtrack Pro 3 gives you everything you need to create immersive surround mixes."

I noticed a cool feature with Sound track Pro 3, with the Multi-channel mixing mode for movies you can have both simultaneous 5.1 and stereo mixes with your sound track for video or audio production. I also found an Apple support page that should give us some info about what programs we can use with Multi-channel on Apple computers.

Soundtrack Pro: Unexpected results when exporting multichannel audio files
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3154

Quote:
“Products Affected Soundtrack Pro 2.x, Logic Studio, Final Cut Studio 2, Soundtrack Pro 3.0, Final Cut Studio (2009), Logic Studio (2009)”
 
Thanks to one of our new members Bertoa, here is the latest Mac software running on a Dell laptop.
Portable multi-channel soundstudio:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?12905-Portable-multi-channel-soundstudio

The M-audio Sonica Theater audio should also work on an Apple computer. Here is a PDF about the device, no Apple info though: http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/press_releases/M-Audio_SonicaTheater_PR.pdf

Amazon product info and reviews by PC / Apple reviewers for M-audio Sonica Theater:
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Sonica-Theater-24-Bit-Surround/dp/B00009L7N9

Here is a link to M-Audio where they have Multi-Channel cards for Apple:
http://www.m-audio.com/

Check out these Cards to see if they will work with your Apple computer:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces

This "Quadraphonic" card supposedly works with Apple computers:
Audiophile 2496 - 4-In/4-Out Audio Card with MIDI and Digital I/O
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html
 
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For surround analog playback I use a Gigaport-HD. That's a USB sound card with 8 outputs no inputs. Works with mac core audio so no driver needed (also comes with ASIO, WDM, etc etc. drivers for windows).

I feed that into a creative DTS-610 to encode DTS on the fly, but I can also go analog into my HT.

For recording I use an M-Audio Transit.

Since DTS encoders for mac are scarce and expensive I've used the M-Audio Transit to record (optical) the output of the DTS-610 and burned DTS CD's from the resulting wave file.

This is on an intel MAC mini running snow leopard (which now lives in my car).

For playback of stuff that's already DTS encoded, I use the optical out on the Mac Mini. I have a guide on how to play DTS surround music in iTunes, over at surroundbyus.com, if anyone is interested.

Z
 
Check out these Cards to see if they will work with your Apple computer:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces

These cards from M-Audio claim to work with Apple G3/G4/G5 depending on the type of Apple computer one owns and its configuration (these cards will also work with Windows PC):

Audiophile 2496 - 4-In/4-Out Audio Card with MIDI and Digital I/O
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

G3* 500MHz with OS 9.2.2, 128MB RAM

G4* 500MHz with OS X 10.1.5, 10.2.6, 10.3.8, 10.4, 10.5.1 w/ 256MB RAM**

OMS 2.3.8 for MIDI under OS 9.2.2

Currently there are two models of Apple’s G5 that are incompatible with this product. Please click this linkfor more information.

* G3/G4 accelerator cards not supported; OS 10.3 required for Dolby Digital and DTS “pass-through” with Apple DVD Player
** Please check the minimum system requirements of your DAW software as they may be higher.
*** Intel based Mac Pro & DualCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported.


Delta 66 - Professional 6-In/6-Out Audio Card with Digital I/O
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta66.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

G3/G4* 500MHz

G5 w/PCI-X expansion slots** - Incompatible exceptions

OS 9.2.2, 128MB RAM; OS X 10.1.5, 10.2.6 w/ 256MB RAM

Mac OS X 10.4.5, 10.5.1 w/512MB RAM

OMS 2.3.8 for MIDI under OS 9.2.2

* G3/G4 accelerator cards not supported
** Intel based Mac Pro & DualCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported.
*** M-Audio suggests you also check the minimum system requirements for your software, as they may be greater than the above.


Audiophile 192 - High-Definition 4-In/4-Out Audio Card with Digital I/O and MIDI
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

Macintosh G4 733 MHz

512MB RAM

OS X 10.1.5, 10.2.8, 10.3.8, 10.4, 10.5.1

Available PCI slot

Currently there are two models of Apple’s G5 that are incompatible with this product. Please click this linkfor more information
Intel based Mac Pro & DualCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported.


Delta 1010LT - 10-In/10-Out PCI Virtual Studio
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

G3/G4* 500MHz

G5 w/PCI-X expansion slots** - Incompatible exceptions

OS 9.2.2, w/ 128MB RAM

OS X 10.1.5, 10.2.6, 10.3.6, 10.4, 10.5.1 w/ 256MB RAM***

OMS 2.3.8 for MIDI under OS 9.2.2

* G3/G4 accelerator cards not supported
** Intel based Mac Pro & DualCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported.
*** M-Audio suggests you also check the minimum system requirements for your software, as they may be greater than the above.


Delta 1010 - 10-In/10-Out PCI/Rack Digital Recording System with MIDI and Digital I/O
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

OS 9.2.2* w/128MB RAM, Opcode OMS 2.3.8 for MIDI;

Mac OS X 10.2.8, 10.3.8 w/256MB RAM

Mac OS X 10.4.5, 10.5.1 w/512MB RAM

G3/G4 500**

G5 w/PCI-X expansion slots*** - Incompatible exceptions

* No ongoing updates/support for Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X 10.2.8
**G3/G4 accelerator cards not supported
***Intel based Mac Pro & DualCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported

Please check the minimum system requirements of your DAW software as they may be higher.


Delta 44 - Professional 4-In/4-Out Audio Card
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta44.html

Minimum System Requirements (Mac)

G3/G4* 500MHz

G5 w/PCI-X expansion slots** - Incompatible exceptions

OS 9.2.2 w/128MB RAM, Opcode OMS 2.3.8 for MIDI

Mac OS X 10.2.8, 10.3.8 w/256MB RAM

Mac OS X 10.4.5, 10.5.1 w/512MB RAM

* G3/G4 accelerator cards not supported
** Intel based Mac Pro & DuelCore G5 with PCI-Express expansion slots not supported.
*** No ongoing updates/support for Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X 10.2.8

M-Audio suggests you also check the minimum system requirements for your software, as they may be greater than the above.
 
For surround analog playback I use a Gigaport-HD. That's a USB sound card with 8 outputs no inputs. Works with mac core audio so no driver needed (also comes with ASIO, WDM, etc etc. drivers for windows).

I feed that into a creative DTS-610 to encode DTS on the fly, but I can also go analog into my HT.

For recording I use an M-Audio Transit.

Since DTS encoders for mac are scarce and expensive I've used the M-Audio Transit to record (optical) the output of the DTS-610 and burned DTS CD's from the resulting wave file.

This is on an intel MAC mini running snow leopard (which now lives in my car).

For playback of stuff that's already DTS encoded, I use the optical out on the Mac Mini. I have a guide on how to play DTS surround music in iTunes, over at surroundbyus.com, if anyone is interested.

Z

Thanks zeerround for the info. Have not tried your "DTS in iTunes" at http://www.surroundbyus.com yet, but it looks real interesting and have posted a link to the info. The "DTS in iTunes" PDF is a must read for both Apple and Windows users. Thanks again.


Other links:
Creative DTS-610
http://us.store.creative.com/Home-Theater-Connect-DTS610/M/B002651ZEM.htm

M-Audio Transit
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit.html

Gigaport-HD
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaporthd/

Gigaport-HD Users guide PDF:
http://www.esi-audiotechnik.com/download/ESI/GIGAPORT_HD/GIGAPORT_HD-English.pdf

Gigaport-HD Home Page: http://www.esi-audio.com/

ESI - GIGAPORT HD Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ESI+-+GIGAPORT+HD&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g3&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Apple - Airport Express:
http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/
 
Thanks for this thread OQG!
DTS Playback is fairly simple, VLC or divx player or itunes thru the Optical out of the Mac (the MOTU 828 do NOT pass dts info thru its opt out)

My setup is simple and most of you know it;
Recording:
Technics SL-QL1 Linear tracking w Ortofon OM 20/ Akiyama mixer MX-1/ MOTU 828 mkII /iMac (or G5) /Logic Pro 8 /.

The part us "Maqueros" are screwed with is the processing or scripts to decode the LPs since NO Mac program has a "Center channel extractor" that is needed for decoding... so , we have to resort to our...ugh...Windoze XP
 
Thanks for this thread OQG!
DTS Playback is fairly simple, VLC or divx player or itunes thru the Optical out of the Mac (the MOTU 828 do NOT pass dts info thru its opt out)

My setup is simple and most of you know it;
Recording:
Technics SL-QL1 Linear tracking w Ortofon OM 20/ Akiyama mixer MX-1/ MOTU 828 mkII /iMac (or G5) /Logic Pro 8 /.

The part us "Maqueros" are screwed with is the processing or scripts to decode the LPs since NO Mac program has a "Center channel extractor" that is needed for decoding... so , we have to resort to our...ugh...Windoze XP

Thanks for the info Kap. Yes, eventually we need Windows for something... Also, was not able to see certain web pages properly and some web forms wouldn't work. :eek:

VLC media player: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Divx software: http://www.divx.com or http://www.divx.com/en/win

Divx 7 for Mac software: http://www.divx.com/en/software/mac

MOTU 828mkII USB | Sweetwater.com: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828MkIIusb

MOTU 828 mkII google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=MOTU+828+mkII+&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

MOTU Audio Home Page: http://www.motu.com/audio

Apple - Logic Studio: http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/

Logic Pro 8 google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
 
This is interesting. Evidently the Talking Heads "Brick" was mixed using a Mac G5 with Pro Tools.

Jerry Harrison: Talking Heads in Surround Sound
Page 1: http://www.apple.com/pro/techniques/harrison/index.html

By Dustin Driver

Surround sound is perfect for action movies, but for the entire Talking Heads music catalog? Jerry Harrison, the keyboardist and guitarist for the legendary band, thinks so. “It’s a new way to experience this wonderful music,” he says. “You hear more deeply into each song; it becomes so visceral.”

Harrison, master remixer E.T. Thorngren, and engineer Matt Cohen remixed all eight Talking Heads studio albums in surround sound for the massive DVD/CD compilation “Talking Heads Brick.” The opus cleaned house at the 2005 Surround Music Awards, winning four awards, including “Best Overall Surround Release of the Year.”

“‘Talking Heads Brick’ is almost a month’s worth of enjoyment. There’s a lot of material in the set and all of it is new in some way.”

Since then, Harrison has woven surround sound mixes of his own albums and is currently finishing the surround mix for the film “Ten Days Out: Blues from the Backroads.” The film features guitar virtuoso Kenny Wayne Shepherd playing with both legendary and little-known blues masters in the Deep South. Harrison’s shop, Sausalito Sound in California, is at the forefront of surround sound remixing. “Surround sound just sounds fantastic,” he says. “It’s the difference between listening to an MP3 and a CD. It’s dramatic when you have a proper system.”

Remix
The early sound of Talking Heads tended toward the sparse, seasoned with haunting vocals. It wasn’t until the fifth and sixth studio albums — “Remain in Light” (1980) and “Speaking in Tongues” (1983) — that the band beefed up its sound. So when Rhino Records asked Harrison to go over the Talking Heads catalog for reissue, they asked him to start there. “Because they’re so dense with material, they seemed ideal for multichannel audio,” he says. “We did those two and they came out so well that we decided to put all the albums out at once.”

“Talking Heads Brick” contains all eight Talking Heads studio releases remixed in 5.1 surround sound, plus several music videos and previously unreleased songs on dual DVD/CD disks. “It’s almost a month’s worth of enjoyment,” says Harrison. “There’s a lot of material in the set and all of it is new in some way.”

Harrison secured all the original Talking Heads studio tapes and had them dubbed to hard drive at a 192kHz sample rate, giving him complete control over every song in the collection.

From there, his team was ready to massage them with his Power Mac G5 running a 72-output Pro Tools HD system.

But tweaking classics like “Burning Down the House” and “Psycho Killer” wouldn’t be easy. “We came up with a philosophy,” he says. “We liked the band in front of you. We liked a stereo stage that expands around you. We wanted the impact of the band; we didn’t like the idea of the listener being in the middle of it all. It just seemed too tricky and a bit unnatural.”

The engineers at Sausalito Sound took advantage of the 5.1 surround environment to spread out the sound. “Certain things work well in the rear channels,” says Harrison. “The sonically dense songs sound fantastic. We were able to take overlapping parts and put them on separate channels, which made the songs sound clear and alive. Even with the more sparse material, a few parts on the rear channels have a big impact.”

Staying True
When they sat down at their Power Macs to remix the Talking Heads collection, Harrison and his crew were mindful of fans’ expectations. “People have listened to the music carefully for years,” says Harrison. “You want the listeners to feel like there’s more to it, but you don’t want them to say, ‘Wow, this is totally different.’ For the most part, we stayed true to the original mixes. If something nice came into the song as it was fading out, we extended the mix a little bit — we weren’t locked into the time constraints of an LP.”

As a bonus, the team did add a few new mixes of some iconic songs. “We did include an additional extended mix of ‘Burning Down the House.’ We started with the original arrangement, but took it in a new direction. We felt much freer with that song because we already had the original mix in the compilation.”

Harrison used digital audio filters sparingly. “We did use some equalizers and compressors and a little reverb for 5.1 surround from Trillium Lane Labs. The studio is also filled with a ton of old analog compressors that we still use. They have a sound that can’t be completely recreated in the digital realm. We run the digital audio out to them and bring it back into Pro Tools. We’re essentially combining things from both the digital and the analog world.”

Fully Equipped

Recording and editing surround sound takes some specialized equipment. Sausalito Sound has a Power Mac G5 system running Pro Tools HD with 48 channels of Dangerous Music 2-Bus and 2-Bus LT that send signals to six audio channels on a separate Pro Tools system. To listen to their handiwork, Harrison has two surround systems: Blue Sky’s Sky System 5.1 and five Yamaha NS-10M speakers powered by vintage Hafler 220 amplifiers. A powerful Meyer Sound subwoofer rounds out the system.

Keep It Separated

Harrison likes to have dedicated systems for the various tasks involved in running a studio. “We have one machine that does the mix, another strictly for recording, and a third for effects,” says Harrison. “It helps out a lot, especially when we’re running 192 kHz tracks with effects. Splitting the load up between several CPUs smoothes things out.”

Listen Carefully

“Talking Heads Brick” is more than just a new collection of CDs. For Harrison, it’s a way to recapture the communal feeling that an LP release used to encourage. “When I grew up, you’d sit down and listen to an album with your friends,” he says. “It was a big deal.”

Surround sound encourages listeners to share their experience. “It takes a little more effort to truly appreciate the music,” says Harrison. “You have to invest in the system and set it up correctly. Then you almost have to press your heads together to get into the right spot to hear the intricacies of the music. There’s a sense of community and value to the music. It brings back the excitement of listening together that we remember from the days of vinyl.”

Jerry Harrison: All Blues
Page 2: http://www.apple.com/pro/techniques/harrison/index2.html

Equipment List

Computer System
Power Mac G5
Pro Tools HD 7.1
MOTU MachFive Sampler
Digidesign 192 I/O audio interface
Digidesign HD Accel Card
Canopus Video Converter
Dangerous Music 2-Bus
Plug-ins
Waves Platinum, Diamond, and Surround Bundles
Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Atmosphere and Trilogy
McDSP plug-ins
Impact and Revibe
Studio Equipment
Empirical Labs Distressor
Focusrite 3 Stereo Compressor
Thermionic Culture Phoenix Compressor and Culture Vulture
Alan Smart Stereo Compressor
UREI LA-4 Limiter
dbx 160x Compressor
Roland Dimension
Cyclosonic Panner
SPL Transient Designer 9842
EMU Proteus 1
EMU XP
EMU ESI-32
Keyboards and Synths
Voce V3
Korg Wavestation
Waldorf Microwave
Roland D-550
Yamaha TX-816
Nord Lead
Yamaha DX7
Prophet T8

Jerry Harrison and E.T. Thorngren at Harrison’s Sausalito Sound studio in Sausalito, California.
 

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Yeah , I'm sure most of the mixing is done ina Mac now...funnily enough you can't play a MCh DVDA in a Mac...

BTW, this thread got me going and I spent several hours trying to decode SQ in Logic in real time by using the same file in 8 different channels.....I managed to decode Center, Lf, Lc, Rf and Rc... couldn't do Lr, Cr and Rr though...
 
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