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Thread: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

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    900 Club - QQ All Star jdmack's Avatar
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    Default DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    I am forwarding this e-mail I received from Ott House Audio in Silver Spring, Maryland (just outside of Washington, DC). I hope to go to this. An RSVP required for anyone who is interested going. The event is June 16 at 6:00 PM.

    J. D. (who wonders how many people in this forum live near DC anyway?)

    ------------------------------------

    Ott House Audio and DTS would like to invite you to check out DTS' East Coast Product Launch Event! DTS will be introducing their new 7.1 UpMix plugin tool. All attendees will receive a free demo license for a week.

    Check out the Web link to the tool below!

    http://www.dts.com/Pro_Audio_Product.../Overview.aspx

    Please feel free to spread the word to all of your friends in audio.

    RSVP to ops@otthouseaudio.com. See you all there!
    www.otthouseaudio.com (for address and phone)

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    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Wow! Read this:

    Content that has not been matrix-encoded can be translated into width and depth information, creating a pleasing surround image — often indistinguishable from original surround sound content.
    Stereo signals that have already been matrix-encoded can be upmixed to a surround sound image that is more discrete than that of the complementary brand matrix decoder.
    :-jon

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    For sure i will be glad to listen what it does and compare with the SQ scripts we developed here.
    Too bad Silver Spring is just too far away from here...

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    Musician / Writer Old Quad Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Those who attend might ask how this plug-in would decode SQ / QS Matrix Quad. On the “Tech Specs” page it says: UpMix Channel Count : 2.0 to 5.1, 2.0 to 7.1 and 5.1 to 7.1. Would that mean a perfect 4.0 decode in all four speakers or a decode into 5.1 / 7.1? Also, any chance this plug-in will work with higher bit rates 24/96 and 24/192 in the future? Looks real promising from DTS.
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    If anyone is contemplating buying this - *DON'T*

    it sucks big time - after taking hours getting the thing to load in my ILOK stick and Plogue seeing it because of the ILOK - it does work

    very simple to use - tried a few songs then a complete CD - very little seperation

    results are just like using any upmixer on your receiver - in fact I have Neural DTS as one on my Denon preamp - and sounds same as playing the CD with neural

    only purpose of this VST would be for converting an old stereo movie soundtrack so they can say it has a 5.1 DTS track..

    I really expected it would be better than this..

    oh well..

    At least I didnt waste $500 to buy a copy
    John

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    It look interesting in theory, but IMHO, it wants to do so many things(stereo to 5.1 to 7.1 and vice versa??? ) that in the end it won't cut the mustard.
    I trust the members here and if MC Maniac sez it sucks; well , it most probably DOES!
    And if Neil sez that Penteo is superb, well, the same here....
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
    -------------------------------------
    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by MC Maniac View Post
    If anyone is contemplating buying this - *DON'T*

    it sucks big time - after taking hours getting the thing to load in my ILOK stick and Plogue seeing it because of the ILOK - it does work

    very simple to use - tried a few songs then a complete CD - very little seperation

    results are just like using any upmixer on your receiver - in fact I have Neural DTS as one on my Denon preamp - and sounds same as playing the CD with neural

    only purpose of this VST would be for converting an old stereo movie soundtrack so they can say it has a 5.1 DTS track..

    I really expected it would be better than this..

    oh well..

    At least I didnt waste $500 to buy a copy
    Thanks John. Your info is greatly valued and appreciated.
    :-jon

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    Musician / Writer Old Quad Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Bummer... I expected more from DTS.
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Quad Guy View Post
    Bummer... I expected more from DTS.
    yeah me too - this product has been around for some time and I assume DTS must have purchased it from Neural..unlikely DTS added anything to it
    John

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Zeeround read a bit as to what was under the hood with the Neural Upmix prior to its release. Seemed to combine some very good panning technology with some very simple, unimpressive Matrix-type stuff. One look at the GUI for the VST version of it, though, pretty much gives away what a simplistic tool this is. You've got one "width" slider and one "depth" slider. That's it.

    I'm actually not surprised. It's advertised as something to add width and depth to stereo movie soundtracks in order to create a 5.1 mix, and not for music. If you have an old movie with only a 2.0 mix, it will do a halfway decent job. SPEC absolutely smokes what this could do with music, though. Not even close.....and you save the $499.

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    It look interesting in theory, but IMHO, it wants to do so many things(stereo to 5.1 to 7.1 and vice versa??? ) that in the end it won't cut the mustard.
    I trust the members here and if MC Maniac sez it sucks; well , it most probably DOES!
    And if Neil sez that Penteo is superb, well, the same here....
    right.....the fact that the 5.1/7.1 has to neatly fold back to stereo very much hampers what can be done with the program.

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star neil wilkes's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by DKA View Post
    right.....the fact that the 5.1/7.1 has to neatly fold back to stereo very much hampers what can be done with the program.
    The Penteo system also folds back down to phase-perfect original stereo too.
    The DTS offering is definitely superior to the TC Unwrap, and the Lexicon upmix in the 960L unit.
    However, I will want a lot more time to check it out properly when it is available for PC properly, rather than the ProTools plugin.
    Let's face it guys - PT is not all that great, although better than Logic (most things are), because of the fixed point processing forcing dither on every floating point plugin.

    My biggest worry with stuff like this is that they will be used as a cheap alternative to a proper, discrete remix.
    FWIW, where upmixing is necessary, I would rather either
    A - Use Penteo, or
    B - get one of the upmixers who really knows their stuff to do the job instead.

    I want to believe (to paraphrase Fox Mulder) but I have doubts.....
    I played with this during the AES show in London recently but was unable to adjust on the fly as it was being demoed in PTLE (which sucks a big, fat one)
    and the CPU kept crapping out if the interface was still open so very hard to tell on what I saw & heard.
    It did decode the SQ CD of SuperSession very nicely - no doubt a all in my mind that sounded great - and DTS were accepting any & all files to run through it.
    It will get better as it gets developed, I think.
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Agreed, but let's face it: it's slim pickings out there. If you want just about anything other than the 0.5% of recorded music available in surround (minus the surround that was released commercially and doesn't sound very good.....what does that percentage come down to? ), you've got to take matters into your own hands sometimes. In my case, change "sometimes" to "most of the time."

    From just looking at the screenshots, there's just not enough options to give the user the control they need to work with music with Neural Upmix and make it sound better than something someone could have done with a simpler method five years ago.

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star neil wilkes's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by DKA View Post
    Agreed, but let's face it: it's slim pickings out there. If you want just about anything other than the 0.5% of recorded music available in surround (minus the surround that was released commercially and doesn't sound very good.....what does that percentage come down to? ), you've got to take matters into your own hands sometimes. In my case, change "sometimes" to "most of the time."
    This is my whole point - rather than using things with limited control, I would much rather get a proper upmixer like yourself to do this.
    The results will be better because it was done by someone who gives a damn, and can check the output, rather than by an algorithm with no musical taste
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Quote Originally Posted by neil wilkes View Post
    This is my whole point - rather than using things with limited control, I would much rather get a proper upmixer like yourself to do this.
    The results will be better because it was done by someone who gives a damn, and can check the output, rather than by an algorithm with no musical taste
    Let the record show that I was not trying to milk Neil for a compliment here.

    If there were more people willing to take the time to learn, and perfect, doing this, who utilize some sort of quality control, and not just looking for "one button" solutions, there'd be a lot less negativity about going from stereo to 5.1 among some folks on here for sure.

    Anyways.....back to your regularly scheduled thread....

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star neil wilkes's Avatar
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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    Agreed with the above.
    My point was solely that an algorithm cannot do what a good upmixer can, and I have DKA foremost in mind as I am listening to his work as I write this.....
    I wish I had the time to do this myself, but there are not enough hours in the day as it is........

    I know there are some very good people out there, and prefer a well crafted upmix to a bad algorithmic one
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    I remember Cai really got into it with John from Penteo, to the point that he scared John away (!!), and I really did not feel the same way, but I did and still fear that the upmix thing will be a "cheap" way for labels to get surround stuff out, forgoing a real surround remix.

    Despite what any upmix software can do (and the SPEC is pretty impressive), when you break an upmixed track into 4 or 6 seperate channels, the individual channels sound pretty crappy compared to a real surround remix. When you break down the finest upmix, it exposes it to reality.

    The REAL surround mix must always be the goal.
    :-jon

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    Default Re: DTS 7.1 Upmix plugin launch event near Washington, DC

    I know where you're coming from Jon, and agree - hence my point earlier on in post #12.
    The sheer amount of faking going on with Blu Ray is scary - I know because we are doing some of it on classical titles.
    No names, no pack drill, but I know I have been responsible for 6 Blu Ray 5.1 classical upmixes.........yet AFAIK, this is not mentioned on the packaging.

    It is also criminal how many BD titles have repurposed Dolby Digital audio, where it is decoded back to LPCM & rendered as "5.1 LPCM" for the BD version.
    I still believe the RPGA guide gets it right when it says...

    In addition, we recommend the placement of a prominent label on all surround sound products to identify whether or not a true multichannel remix was done.
    Wherever a true multichannel mix has been done, we recommend the following terminology:
    "The surround performance on this DVD / SA-CD is a full remix taken from the original multitrack masters."
    Wherever upmixing tools have instead been used, we recommend the following terminology:
    "The surround performance on this DVD / SA-CD was electronically recreated from the original stereo source without the benefit of the multitrack masters."
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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