SQW Carole King in Composer A Setting.

Hi Everyone,

My Carole King album-Music states that it is quadraphonic but it doesn't state whether or not it's SQ or QS. I'm assuming QS as it is on the Ode label. Well, it sounds absolutely fantastic throught the Composer A setting of my Lafayette SQW. One can really hear the congas circling through the rear channels-lots of nice descrete sounding things going on. I always heard that the Composer A setting served as a really good QS decoder. Any thoughts on this?

I think I read in the SQ-W manual that the Composer A setting IS a QS decoder. Like most things QS, as long as you didn't call it QS, you didn't have to pay licensing fees.

I wonder why they did it that way? Just seems odd.

That's like a salesman telling you " It's Quad *wink, wink* but it's not SQ or CD-4 or EV-4 *wink, wink* "

I remember reading years ago that this decoder did
a top job decoding QS the writer said that at the time
before he had heard Vario/matrix this is the best QS decoder
ron

The big clue that this record is QS is on the inner sleeve where it mentions the Sansui decoder.

Doug

I'm pretty sure this was the first pop/rock major label LP released in quad. Irt was the first one I ever saw & bought. It is QS.

There's a CBS CD issue from the 90s that's QS encoded as well. It's what I used for my DTS transfer, and it came out great! I forget the issue number off the top of my head, but it's posted in the "CDs in Quad" thread.

Q-Eight said:

I think I read in the SQ-W manual that the Composer A setting IS a QS decoder. Like most things QS, as long as you didn't call it QS, you didn't have to pay licensing fees.

I wonder why they did it that way? Just seems odd.

That's like a salesman telling you " It's Quad *wink, wink* but it's not SQ or CD-4 or EV-4 *wink, wink* "

Click to expand...

Actually, Sansui charged no fees for QS - it worked like Dolby does with software; No license fees were involved at all, only rules as to logo use.

I hated how manufacturers equated QS and RM as the same thing, when they were not at all. QS's 4 corner locations were encoded the same as RM, but that's it - the encoding didn't match anywhere else.

BTW, does anyone know what companies, besides Sansui, used the Vario-Matrix chips in their receivers decoders? I ask because several Sansui ad's for QS claim that companies like Marantz and Yamaha are used the 3-IC Vario-Matrix in their products but I don't recall that ever being the case.

Cool, I have a mint condition Lafayette SQW, will have to find a copy of this.

And thanks for the discussion, I was wondering about Composer A and Composer B. So what is Composer B? My Lafayette manual is pretty vague about it:

"This selects another type of decoder circuit which can be used with 4-channel records, etc., which have been encoded by means of a matrix system other than SQ. It can also be used to produce "derived" 4-channel sound from conventional stereo program sources..."

Later it does add (pg. 20) that "the Composer B position will present the performance predominantly in front of the the listener, and with a slightly less ambience developed at the rear." Sort of like Sansui's "Hall" selection under QS synthesizer except you don't alter the position of the speakers

Interesting stuff. The Composer-A circuit in the Lafayette SQ-W decoder is actually a Dynaquad-derived setup, only using amplification for the rear speakers, with a little of the left front in the left rear, and the right front in the right rear to give the illusion of channel separation between the two rear speakers. One of the trade magazines at the time claimed that the Composer A circuitry (in a different Lafayette product) gave "ideal" playback of QS material, which was entirely a conincidence. When the "geniuses" at the top at Lafayette disbanded the Composer A circuit for the "RM" circuit, they did their customers a tremendous disservice, as it worked poorly both as a "Regular Matrix/QS" decoder, or one to simulate quad from 2-channel material.

The Composer B circuitry, despite the statements in the instruction manual was nothing more than a basic, single matrix SQ circuit, which frankly, did a pretty lousy job of simulating quadraphonic sound from stereo sources.

So how does the Lafayette SQ-W's "Full Logic" SQ mode compare to that of other decoders such as an unmodified Sansui? My understanding is that it is supposed to be one of the better decoders out there, allegedly second only to the Tate II. Wors like this are of course pretty inflammatory. As an owner of both a Sansui QRX-7001 and a Lafayette SQ-W, I will have to admit I haven't compared them side by side to see if how the SQ modes compare subjectively, but this will be some good homework for me. Anyone have any comparative data?
Thanks

ezed1 said:

So how does the Lafayette SQ-W's "Full Logic" SQ mode compare to that of other decoders such as an unmodified Sansui? My understanding is that it is supposed to be one of the better decoders out there, allegedly second only to the Tate II. Wors like this are of course pretty inflammatory. As an owner of both a Sansui QRX-7001 and a Lafayette SQ-W, I will have to admit I haven't compared them side by side to see if how the SQ modes compare subjectively, but this will be some good homework for me. Anyone have any comparative data?
Thanks

Click to expand...

The SQ-W is a Full-Wave Matching Logic with CBS's Vari-Blend F/B logic. In other words, it's a gain-riding power-transfer decoder and when a Center Front source is dominant, instead of reducing the gain of the rear channels like the standard front-back logic did, it blends the back channels to mono to cancel Center Front in the back - corner sources are gain-riding. It does not blend the front channels if a Center Back signal is predominant because you'd instantly hear the front go to mono. The SQ-W was an excellent decoder - for a power-transfer (gain-riding) type unit. But, it still has all the faults of a gain rider - non-constant power, sources moving as front or back predominates, etc... and it creates a 'triangle' of sound instead of a 360 soundfield. The "Paramatrix" type 'super' decoders (i.e. parametrically variable) Tate's and Scheiber 360 decoder that use selective cancellation are so superior that there is no comparison.

BTW, the Sansui only ever implemented Front-Back Vario-Matrix for SQ - corner sources have only basic matrix separation - and the phase angles of the sounds are always wrong due to the way Sansui implemented SQ decoding. They never did it any other way.

Disclord said:

The SQ-W is a Full-Wave Matching Logic with CBS's Vari-Blend F/B logic. In other words, it's a gain-riding power-transfer decoder and when a Center Front source is dominant, instead of reducing the gain of the rear channels like the standard front-back logic did, it blends the back channels to mono to cancel Center Front in the back - corner sources are gain-riding. It does not blend the front channels if a Center Back signal is predominant because you'd instantly hear the front go to mono. The SQ-W was an excellent decoder - for a power-transfer (gain-riding) type unit. But, it still has all the faults of a gain rider - non-constant power, sources moving as front or back predominates, etc... and it creates a 'triangle' of sound instead of a 360 soundfield. The "Paramatrix" type 'super' decoders (i.e. parametrically variable) Tate's and Scheiber 360 decoder that use selective cancellation are so superior that there is no comparison.

BTW, the Sansui only ever implemented Front-Back Vario-Matrix for SQ - corner sources have only basic matrix separation - and the phase angles of the sounds are always wrong due to the way Sansui implemented SQ decoding. They never did it any other way.

Click to expand...

this thread is crazy.

so are you saying the Tate's and Scheiber 360 are better than the sq-w for decoding stereo to quad? on composer b.

Then what is the sq-w best used for? What is the finest recording one can get to demonstrate the sq-w's skills.

ps what carol king album are we talking about?

elguapo511 said:

ps what carol king album are we talking about?

Click to expand...

Carole King - Music
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?10041-King-Carole-Carole-King-Music-QS-Q8

And then there's the Sony SQD-2020 verses the Tate.