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Thread: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

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    Default The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    I have other DVD-Audio titles, they play fine. SACDs also play fine.

    The DVD-Audio I have of Tommy, sadly, is an exercise in frustration.

    I can hear the player whirr and pause at the beginning of the album, and at many tracks on the album. As a result, I "miss" a half second to a second of the beginning of what seems like most tracks. Most notably the very beginning of "Overture" and the transitions between "Cousin Kevin" to the "The Acid Queen" and "Fiddle About" to "Pinball Wizard" (track 1, tracks 10-11, tracks 12-13). "I'm Free" also begins about a half second into the song. Infuriating!

    Some transitions, such as "Amazing Journey" to "Sparks", are seamless and have no problems at all.

    If I force the player to play the DVD-Audio as if it's a DVD-Video disc, the transitions are all perfect. Playing the disc as a DVD-Video in a computer (mac mini, late 2009 model) also works fine. This would be great, except I purchased the disc for the higher resolution audio.

    Anyone else have this problem?

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    .
    Last edited by Malcolm2010; 10-14-2010 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Me being an idiot and not reading the post correctly !

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Had a similar problem with one of my Doors/Perception/5.1 discs. I wiped it clean, with "Invisible Glass cleaner"; works great on auto glass, & solved my DVD/A problem, as well. No guarantees, but worth $3-4, to try.Good luck; BTW: My copy of "Band On the Run"/DTS/5.1/purple label, had a similar problem, in reference to missing the first few seconds of track one. Later found out, it was a mfg. defect, which was corrected, & now has a yellow label.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by drphibes View Post
    I have other DVD-Audio titles, they play fine. SACDs also play fine.

    The DVD-Audio I have of Tommy, sadly, is an exercise in frustration.
    Why not just pick up the SACD? Most stores have it. Sounds better too. I have both. The dvd-audio version is difficult to sell since it's so common, and apparently may even still be in print.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by narcopolo View Post
    Why not just pick up the SACD? Most stores have it. Sounds better too. I have both. The dvd-audio version is difficult to sell since it's so common, and apparently may even still be in print.
    While that will probably work, there's a bigger potential issue I'm trying to deal with here. If Tommy is not somehow a problematic release, then it's likely that I will have problems with many DVD-Audio releases and should choose between avoiding them, replacing my player, or learning to live with the problem. A big reason why I bought this player was its ability to play both SACD and DVD-Audio, I feel now like I've been suckered.

    Oppo service had this to say:

    Unfortunately with DVD-Audio titles there will likely always be some truncation when the first track is being loaded. This is due in part to standard handshakes (when using the HDMI cable) and in part due to the player needing to re-option and buffer a new audio stream when engaging the MLP soundtrack for the first time.

    We have been working with our engineering group to resolve this issue through firmware, but at this time we do not know if we will be able to fix it through firmware.


    I think this probably also explains the pauses elsewhere on the disk. Their answer suggests that audio analog output might not have this problem; I'm also going to ask if this problem is with all of their players or just the BDP-80.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by drphibes View Post
    ...

    [I]Unfortunately with DVD-Audio titles there will likely always be some truncation when the first track is being loaded. This is due in part to standard handshakes (when using the HDMI cable) and in part due to the player needing to re-option and buffer a new audio stream when engaging the MLP soundtrack for the first time.
    Are you unable to use the analog outputs on the player, or does the player only offer stereo analog outputs?

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    Smile Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    I have an Oppo BDP-80, although I have left it in Europe and can't currently test the DVD-Audio of 'Tommy'. Before taking it I tested the 30 or so DVD-Audios which I am sure included 'Tommy' and had no problems. In fact I haven't yet found a disc it wouldn't play except as noted elsewhere the DTS-ES Midnight Oil 'Capricornia' Disc which would play through the amps decoder. When here I had the 80 connected via the analog outputs. The same in Europe.

    I also have an Oppo BDP-83, here, connected via HDMI to a Denon AVR-1910. I just tested the DVD-Audio of Tommy and it played perfectly (The setup on the Denon was highly complex and not intuitive). With the exception of the same Midnight Oil problem, I also haven't found a disc that won't play.

    If possible I would try the analog inputs to see if the same problem exists. It may be something to do with the HDMI handshake specific to your setup.

    I am exceptionally happy with both Oppo players , so far the best BluRay,DVD, DVD-A, SACD,CD players I have yet owned. I have not been able to replicate the truncation issue as Oppo has described.

    'Tommy' is still playing. What a great album.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    That is very good news - I'll get right on connecting the oppo to the receiver via analog audio.

    I presume I would I still send the video out through HDMI and just reconfigure the oppo to send out audio via analog?

    Thanks everyone, this has been a big help.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    I hate to burst your bubble, but I gave up on my Oppo because of said "truncation". Prior to giving up, I had the 6-channel going analog and the HDMI going to the TV.

    Actually, a thought I've been entertaining is unplugging the HDMI altogether to see if I still have truncation.
    "You gotta always remember, the name of the game is 'What does it sound like?' That's always the end result - I don't care if you got 90 tracks. What does it sound like, baby?" - Ray Charles

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    I have an 80 as well, but it is hooked up via analogue (video component and audio RCA) only.

    There was a bunch of talk at SHF about any HDMI connection to the 80 (and I think the 83) causing the burps at track start on DVD-A playback. Have a read over there.
    'No one I think is in my tree...'

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Yes. I have the 80 with video hooked up by HDMI to either a Samsung 32" LED or LCD and Multichannel audio hooked up by analog. 83 is all HDMI via the Denon receiver. I have no truncation on any setup.

    I wonder what the difference is?

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by channelar View Post
    Yes. I have the 80 with video hooked up by HDMI to either a Samsung 32" LED or LCD and Multichannel audio hooked up by analog. 83 is all HDMI via the Denon receiver. I have no truncation on any setup.

    I wonder what the difference is?
    Maybe we should compare firmware. At some point, I updated the firmware on my device to the most current version. I didn't notice the problem until after this, but it may have been there before the update and I missed it.

    My firmware is:

    Main: BDP 80-14-0522

    Loader: BT0410 85750410

    Sub: MCU 80-06-0118

    Chip: 0B.00.01.00

    ..assuming I copied this correctly.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by filper View Post
    I have an 80 as well, but it is hooked up via analogue (video component and audio RCA) only.

    There was a bunch of talk at SHF about any HDMI connection to the 80 (and I think the 83) causing the burps at track start on DVD-A playback. Have a read over there.
    I'm revealing my ignorance, but I'm going to need a pointer on what/where SHF is. I presume it's S-H- Forum. Thanks everyone for your help and patience.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by drphibes View Post
    I'm revealing my ignorance, but I'm going to need a pointer on what/where SHF is. I presume it's S-H- Forum. Thanks everyone for your help and patience.
    Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed you knew what SHF was...

    Try here http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...d.php?t=204865

    and here http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...highlight=oppo

    The answer/thoughts are somewhere in those two threads.
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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    The truncation issue is a definite bugbear, and can easily be eliminated altogether by correct mastering & MLP encoding.
    All it takes is the addition of 2 seconds silence at the leading end of the masters - not exactly rocket science.
    It's the same with DTS and with Dolby Digital too - Dolby Labs & DTS all recommend adding the 2 seconds at the start to avoid this issue.
    It's caused - as Oppo correctly say - by the handshake of HDMI and also by the time it takes slower decoders to lock down onto a stream & start outputting sound.

    Address all complaints to the mastering house used - in the case of "Band on the Run", the error is inexcusable - just plain sloppy.
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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    Default Re: The Who's Tommy DVD-Audio playback trouble on an Oppo BDP-80

    Quote Originally Posted by neil wilkes View Post
    The truncation issue is a definite bugbear, and can easily be eliminated altogether by correct mastering & MLP encoding.
    All it takes is the addition of 2 seconds silence at the leading end of the masters - not exactly rocket science.
    It's the same with DTS and with Dolby Digital too - Dolby Labs & DTS all recommend adding the 2 seconds at the start to avoid this issue.
    It's caused - as Oppo correctly say - by the handshake of HDMI and also by the time it takes slower decoders to lock down onto a stream & start outputting sound.

    Address all complaints to the mastering house used - ...

    Panasonic Disc did the authoring on Tommy - at the time this title had no known problems on any released players. It's only when HDMI audio became available much later did some problems appear. HDMI audio was not in the original DVD-A spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by narcopolo View Post
    Why not just pick up the SACD? Most stores have it. Sounds better too. I have both. The dvd-audio version is difficult to sell since it's so common, and apparently may even still be in print.
    You guys crack me up... you do realize that it's the exact same 96/24 PCM surround mix that was used to make both the SACD and DVD-A version? Any audible differences is most likely attributed to the hardware in your player.

    Of course the SACD version doesn't have the great video interview with Pete.

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