QS albums that are actually only plain stereo

There are quite a few albums that, although not officially released as Quadraphonic, have been thought to be 'secret' unmarked QS releases. The reason for this would appear to be the QS decoders aility to create an artificial surround soundfield from stereo sources using the random out of phase information that often exists in many recordings.

I've been testing many of these albums using the latest QS decoding process, and so far all have failed to show them to be nothing more than normal stereo releases. The reason for this is the accuracy of the process, which relies on the exact phase information being there to decode.

I do realise this list may come as something of a disapointment to many, especially as 'Tommy' is included. I've listened to the decoded album, and it's bog standard stereo. This is obviously not the same mix as used in the original film, which was QS encoded.

Albums not QS encoded:

Grateful Dead - Steal Your Face
Gloria Gaynor - Experience
Climax Blues Band - Stamp Album
Tommy - Original Soundtrack

I'm wearing my fire-proof undies, so flame away......


OD

Hi OD

I own "Tommy - Original Soundtrack Recording". The Polidor Japan release MP 9492/3.
And it still has the that typical extra banderole on the cover with price, title etc on it in japanese. And on this banderole there is the "Quintaphonic Sound QS" logo, similar the one you can see as my avatar. However nowhere else on the cover and records any further evidence can be found.
Listening to the records I would judge them as being quad, not just pseudo, although it is not very spectacular.

If I remember right it was mentioned in another thread here once, that only the jap. version of Tommy is in quad. Same as it happens to be for example with Santan Lotus and others.

I'll probably move back to Europe early next year and would borrow you the japanese Tommy for conversion then.
If I find the time I also will try to record directly from the QRX 2 channel tape out to 96Khz 24 bit Stereo on the ZOOM H2n PCM Recorder, which I just bought last week to record the sounds of nature (in Quad), and upload the WAV's for you or send an SD card.

BR,
Peter

Haha, fooled myself

with the switches in the right position on the QRX, my Tommy, sounds, other than I said before, spectacular. @:
Well, it is late night and i should have used my glasses.

oxforddickie said:

There are quite a few albums that, although not officially released as Quadraphonic, have been thought to be 'secret' unmarked QS releases. The reason for this would appear to be the QS decoders aility to create an artificial surround soundfield from stereo sources using the random out of phase information that often exists in many recordings.

I've been testing many of these albums using the latest QS decoding process, and so far all have failed to show them to be nothing more than normal stereo releases. The reason for this is the accuracy of the process, which relies on the exact phase information being there to decode.

I do realise this list may come as something of a disapointment to many, especially as 'Tommy' is included. I've listened to the decoded album, and it's bog standard stereo. This is obviously not the same mix as used in the original film, which was QS encoded.

Albums not QS encoded:

Grateful Dead - Steal Your Face
Gloria Gaynor - Experience
Climax Blues Band - Stamp Album
Tommy - Original Soundtrack

I'm wearing my fire-proof undies, so flame away......


OD

Click to expand...

I'm not surprised - there are official SQ releases that are not quad - like "Barbra Streisand Live" - that's a stereo album, I don't think I've ever heard anything from the rear channels - even playing it in synthesized SQ, it sounds like a slightly 'wide' but otherwise mono LP.

Isn't the original Star Wars soundtrack LP release supposed to be "unmarked" QS?

I've always wondered which soundtrack they used for the original Pan/Scan LaserDisc transfer of Tommy - was it the Quintophonic mix with the discrete Center mixed in, in which case the QS would still be there, or was it a Dolby Stereo remix? Or just plain stereo?

Here's weird - the April 19, 1986 issue of Billboard has an article about stereo for home video and claims that CBS/Fox remixed "Return Of The Jedi" for home video in the SQ matrix for a "4-channel surround sound effect" Here's the link. I don't believe it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=HS...CE0Q6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=sansui DS-77&f=false

Disclord said:

Here's weird - the April 19, 1986 issue of Billboard has an article about stereo for home video and claims that CBS/Fox remixed "Return Of The Jedi" for home video in the SQ matrix for a "4-channel surround sound effect" Here's the link. I don't believe it.

Click to expand...

Couldn't see the part that mentions it, but if you think about that certain album that what SQ encoded and released in 1985, does it really seem that odd? Of course, proof is required, but it may be worth hunting down the version of that time....

Right hand column...SQ in 1985??? Hmmmmmmm....

oxforddickie said:

Couldn't see the part that mentions it, but if you think about that certain album that what SQ encoded and released in 1985, does it really seem that odd? Of course, proof is required, but it may be worth hunting down the version of that time....

Click to expand...

The part that mentions it is the 2nd to last column , 2nd or 3rd paragraph about CBS/Fox. Directly under the picture of the SSL mixing board.

It seems odd to me only because they already had Dolby MP Matrix encoded masters and such - and Dolby Surround decoders were appearing regularly in company line-ups - the Fosgate Tate had been dead for a few years and only the Aphex AVM-8000 SQ decoder was still on the market. So why go to the trouble? Of course, using SQ would allow the stereo surround effects and same sonic experience as the 70mm 6-track version of the film and be somewhat compatible with existing Dolby Surround decoders since Lf, Cf, Rf and Cb are all encoded the same in Dolby MP and SQ.
Maybe Gary Reber had convinced Fox that new Tate designs were going to come out? Reber did want SQ to be used for all home video versions of films and make a version of the Tate decoder that had a Center Front output. The Aphex SQ had such an output as did a prototype version of the Fosgate Tate II 101A decoder - but Jim Fosgate dropped Tate/Reber before it went into any kind of real production. Its drawback was the tape monitor in/out jacks were 'hijacked' to become CF, CB, CL, CR outputs and the "mono" switch position was changed to turn the extra outputs (and the extra Tate DES logic) on and off.

It is at the exact same time, as you stated. I have the P/S LD as well as the first widescreen LD of "Jedi" so I'll have to check them out with my Fosgate.

Don Latshaw, who invented the Synergex decoder used the P/S "Jedi" LD as demo material because it produced true stereo surrounds, like in the Endor/Cycle run sequence. Who knows? It might be true, a 'real' movie in SQ instead of just the porno "Insatiable II".

EDIT: I see Kap'n Krunch posted the part of the article that mentions it. And Kap'n, there was a digitally recorded SQ encoded album released in 1985 as well as a LaserDisc of one part of it.

Disclord said:

EDIT: I see Kap'n Krunch posted the part of the article that mentions it. And Kap'n, there was a digitally recorded SQ encoded album released in 1985 as well as a LaserDisc of one part of it.

Click to expand...

Indeed, and it was to have been released by now, but there are some issues regarding it. Firstly, it being an early digital recording means it show's it! It is rather thin and 'gutless', so will need to tweaking to make it sound more acceptable for today's ears, PLUS there's the issue that it was mixed using the Tate decoder as part of the mixdown.

I suspect this means that the album was mixed to the weakness's of the Tate (and all hardware decoders) and not (as it should have been) mixed to 4 channel with double checking via the Tate. This information is garnered from the overly extensive notes supplied with the album.

Disclord has been involved in this, and he advised me the differences between my decoded version and what he heard through his decoder, which is quite different. I think it's a shame that what is probably the last ever SQ encoded album commercially released is so badly hampered by a compromised mix.

Oh dear, double layered undies now on.... LOL

OD

SQ software in 1985? Return of the Jedi WAS on CBS/Fox. Reber aside, my guess is it was a last ditch by CBS attempt to resurrect SQ. With a little luck, it could have become the standard decoding scheme for cinema. In a dozen or so years, we might have had the SQ Digital decoding scheme. Can you say SQ Digital 7.1?

Linda
SQueaky Wheel

Quad Linda said:

SQ software in 1985? Return of the Jedi WAS on CBS/Fox. Reber aside, my guess is it was a last ditch by CBS attempt to resurrect SQ. With a little luck, it could have become the standard decoding scheme for cinema. In a dozen or so years, we might have had the SQ Digital decoding scheme. Can you say SQ Digital 7.1?

Click to expand...

By then CBS had long given up with SQ, it was all down to Tate themselves.

oxforddickie said:

Albums not QS encoded:

Grateful Dead - Steal Your Face
Gloria Gaynor - Experience
Climax Blues Band - Stamp Album
Tommy - Original Soundtrack

Click to expand...

There have also been some claims about Eagles Desperado being secret QS - even to the point there is a claim some copies even had a "'Q" added to the catalogue number.

Absurd, of course - even if Desperado in quad was leaked, wouldn't it be in the same system as the two official releases?

If it were a secret quad release, it would have been in EV, which they were using openly before they went CD-4. They were going to move to QS for releases, but stupidly were talked into going CD-4 by Mobile Fidelity, who wouldn't let WEA release their albums if they didn't use the system.

How dumb was that!!!! I can't imagine the 'Mystic Moods' and the train sound effects albums were massive sellers.

OD

oxforddickie said:

If it were a secret quad release, it would have been in EV, which they were using openly before they went CD-4. They were going to move to QS for releases, but stupidly were talked into going CD-4 by Mobile Fidelity, who wouldn't let WEA release their albums if they didn't use the system.

How dumb was that!!!! I can't imagine the 'Mystic Moods' and the train sound effects albums were massive sellers.

OD

Click to expand...

Brad Miller absolutely HATED all 2 channel matrix systems... he and Lou Dorren were the major pushers of CD-4 to WEA and RCA. In the 2nd issue of The Perfect Vision from 1987, Brad is still complaining about 2 channel matrixing, this time in reference to Dolby Stereo, and trying to promote discrete quad with his and Lou Dorren's COLOSSUS system.

oxforddickie said:

If it were a secret quad release, it would have been in EV, which they were using openly before they went CD-4. They were going to move to QS for releases, but stupidly were talked into going CD-4 by Mobile Fidelity, who wouldn't let WEA release their albums if they didn't use the system.

How dumb was that!!!! I can't imagine the 'Mystic Moods' and the train sound effects albums were massive sellers.

OD

Click to expand...

The Mystic Moods were an interesting amalgam of Brad Miller's vision and various musicians he gathered together to make what on the surface seemed to be mere 'mood' or 'bachelor pad' music on a par with what Enoch Light did first Command, then with Project 3. But they were really romantic albums that used real sound effects to give a more 'organic' soundscape that mingled music with the outside elements, from rain and thunder to trains and boats and planes, etc.... Though their albums were never more than modest sleepers, whether on Philips (which were leased from Mobile Fidelty, which retained the rights), WB (on which one can find some of those albums reissued) or his own label, most of the MM releases did make Billboard's chart, which proved, if nothing else, that there was a small audience for what, IMO, amounts to the earliest music that one could consider in some ways 'New Age.' Rod McKuen and Anita Kerr's San Sebastian Strings albums were heavily influenced by Miller's work, sold many more copies, and are just as forgotten today. To be sure, this kind of atmospheric pop had far more thought put into it than, say, the likes of anything ever perpetrated by Faith, Conniff, Welk, Vaughn, Winterhalter, or the like. And for all the lushness and nice dynamics of the sound, the end result was nonetheless slight and fleeting, not the sort of thing to stay with you (even in Quad).

As for his 4-channel preferences, if he preferred CD-4, hard to damn him for that, really. It may be, however, that Miller knew execs and engineers at WEA well enough to persuade them that CD-4 was the way to go. And if we speculate further that he might have talked them into issuing quad reels--something CBS and others declined to do--then a tip of the hat to him.


ED

If anyone is interested in reading about the Mystic Moods, the history of mood music, Muzak etc there is a great book called Elevator Music by Joseph Lanza. You can read about Brad Millers 4 channel tape installation at the San Francisco airport Hilton, connected to a light show...

Neb-Maat-Re said:

There have also been some claims about Eagles Desperado being secret QS - even to the point there is a claim some copies even had a "'Q" added to the catalogue number.
Absurd, of course - even if Desperado in quad was leaked, wouldn't it be in the same system as the two official releases?

Click to expand...

you're talking about this one?

Well, that's a little odd. best i do a test...............

The question that would need to be asked though is, if it was mixed in quad, why no official release?

Also, when did WEA announce they were moving over to CD-4?

OD

OK, so let the testing begin...

The first thing to do with any album that may possibly be QS (or any of the RM based matrix's) encode is to listen to it in stereo. Because of the encoding the front channels will have a limited L/R separation and the rears will normally sound as if they are coming from beyond the speakers, like an artifical expanded stereo effect.

This album sounds firmly stereo, with the sound limited to the space between the two speakers, and the acoustic guitar at the start of Doolin-Dalton is firmly on the left speaker.

But i'll do a test on this track - TBC........

OD

OK, did two decodes. It certainly isn't SQ, awful. As to QS/EV, well i think i'll leave it open for people to decide. Would you all like a DTS file of the first track to listen too?

OD

what source you used?
i'm asking 'cause neither CD or new 180 grams LP didn't gave satisfactory result.