View Poll Results: Favourite 2011 Boxset:

Voters
59. You may not vote on this poll
  • Derek & The Dominos - Laya..

    1 1.69%
  • Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon

    13 22.03%
  • Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here

    13 22.03%
  • Jethro Tull - Aqualung

    28 47.46%
  • Steven Wilson - Grace For Drowning

    1 1.69%
  • Rush - Sector 1

    0 0%
  • Rush - Sector 2

    1 1.69%
  • Rush - Sector 3

    1 1.69%
  • The Who - Quadrophenia

    1 1.69%
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Thread: The Year of the Box

  1. #1
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    Default The Year of the Box

    As this has been a great year for Uber-Super-Deluxe Limited edition boxsets. I thought it would be fun to vote for your favourite boxset of 2011 (with surround of course!)

    The options are (I hope I've got the main players!):

    Derek & The Dominos - Laya....
    Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
    Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
    Steven Wilson - Grace For Drowning
    Jethro Tull - Aqualung
    The Who - Quadrophenia
    Rush - Sector 1
    Rush - Sector 2
    Rush - Sector 3

  2. #2
    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Oops, I meant Sector 2
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    i have not bought Aqualung despite the Steven wilson mix, the cost was just too high for the ammount of redundacy in the box, i.e. vinyl

    Did grace for drowning really qualify on the box front I know there was the deluxe book, but if you extrapolated that then discs like Histoire de Melody Nelson shoudl be included 2CD DVD and LP same as the derek and the Dominoes box?

    Anyway for me it was DSOTM which had just about everything including outtakes two surround mixes in hi rez and live stuff too much non music related stuff though !!!
    Cheers Fletch

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Looking at this list makes me realize how much money I've spent this year...I own all of these sets except Layla, and I love them all...not sure what my vote is yet, probably either Aqualung or Wish You Were Here

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    None of the above. This one:

    22655_large.jpg
    Kal Rubinson
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
    None of the above. This one:
    How is the mix on that set, Kal? I see that you only gave it 3.5 stars for audio (here).
    "You gotta always remember, the name of the game is 'What does it sound like?' That's always the end result - I don't care if you got 90 tracks. What does it sound like, baby?" - Ray Charles

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    So, does anyone have a guess - or even better, inside information - as to what boxes we might hope to see in 2012? I need to save up, since November 2011 is KILLING me!!! (And I've only bought a FEW of the boxes...)
    "You gotta always remember, the name of the game is 'What does it sound like?' That's always the end result - I don't care if you got 90 tracks. What does it sound like, baby?" - Ray Charles

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    The Beatles (now on Universal) SHM-SACD boxset may be a bit pricey.

    Hasn't been announced yet though.

    I voted for the Tull box. I should be receiving it sometime in the next 3 days. Lacking Chinese marbles and polyester scarfs made it score a bit higher.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by dr. simple View Post
    How is the mix on that set, Kal? I see that you only gave it 3.5 stars for audio (here).
    There was no option for performance. Besides, I do not recall having rated it.
    Kal Rubinson
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by dr. simple View Post
    How is the mix on that set, Kal? I see that you only gave it 3.5 stars for audio (here).
    One reviewer said: "some who have purchased the original disc have said that (like Sym. #2) the audio is not a true discrete 5.1 DTS Master-Audio mix but a repurposed stereo mix."

    I have no doubt he is correct as most classical 5.1 is the ambient variety. Get any tacet release, AIX or 2L for true discrete 5.1 classical.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by wanners View Post
    One reviewer said: "some who have purchased the original disc have said that (like Sym. #2) the audio is not a true discrete 5.1 DTS Master-Audio mix but a repurposed stereo mix."
    Yup. Not perfect but the performances are extraordinary.

    I have no doubt he is correct as most classical 5.1 is the ambient variety. Get any tacet release, AIX or 2L for true discrete 5.1 classical.
    Poor terminology. "True discrete 5.1" can have only ambient information in the surrounds or it can be an immersive mix. IMHO, the latter is generally unrealistic and unsatisfying, with a few exceptions. There isn't a recording on 2L or AIX that I would trade for this set although Tact has a few winners.
    Kal Rubinson
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    Contributing Editor, Stereophile
    http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
    Yup. Not perfect but the performances are extraordinary.

    Poor terminology. "True discrete 5.1" can have only ambient information in the surrounds or it can be an immersive mix. IMHO, the latter is generally unrealistic and unsatisfying, with a few exceptions. There isn't a recording on 2L or AIX that I would trade for this set although Tact has a few winners.
    You're good for a laugh. You define reality by your own definitions, hence you define your own limitations. I enjoy your commentary though.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Nope. I define reality by reference to real events. Live classical music events are performed (with a few exceptions) in front of an audience with the acoustics of the performance site providing an enveloping ambiance. Recordings of such music which offer a different perspective, such as with the performers surrounding the listener, are divorced from that reality, pure and simple.

    Now, it does not mean that such recordings cannot be enjoyable (I love some of the Tacet recordings but regard them as guilty pleasures) or, indeed, preferable to some listeners but they are not relatable to real performance events. Of course, for studio productions or music for which the composer/performer actually specifies some other perspective, that constraint no longer applies. As for my comment on preferring this to any of the 2L or AIX recordings (many of which I own and enjoy), it is based more on the performers and repertoire than on recording techniques.

    BTW, "true discrete 5.1" has a technical meaning, to me, which distinguishes it from synthesized 5.1 or matrix-encoded formats. It has nothing to do with the listener/performer perspective.

    Kal
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

    Poor terminology. "True discrete 5.1" can have only ambient information in the surrounds or it can be an immersive mix. IMHO, the latter is generally unrealistic and unsatisfying, with a few exceptions. There isn't a recording on 2L or AIX that I would trade for this set although Tact has a few winners.
    Or it can have both - full surround for antiphonal effects plus ambiance for capturing the size or sound of the recording venue or simply as a special effect. Sadly, I've noticed that modern ambience-type surround recordings still get it wrong most of the time - they capture the ambience from the back of the venue - behind the listener - instead of from the sides, when its the side reflections that determine our reactions to the venue and how it 'sounds' due to our being many times more sensitive to sounds coming from the sides of us VS from behind us. Also, artificial ambience generators are often used to further enhance the ambience, which ruins any attempt to accurately capture the recording venue's sound or realistic stereo soundfield. And the center channel is still rarely used right (or at all) either, when it can really enhance the listening experience - correctly recorded, 3 front channels are simply better at creating stable, realistic stereo soundfields.

    Quadraphonic and other technical documents at: Disclord
    The history and development of the LaserDisc System at: LaserVision Landmarks

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    I have to vote on Wish You Were Here, being my all-time favorite album and all that, although I'm not totally convinced about the mix and sound quality yet. I'm waiting for December to arrive which will mean major system overhaul, before opining on anything at all.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    I hope the discussion about "ambient surround" vs. "on stage surround" can be continued in a thread of it's own if desired.
    About these boxes, the Pink Floyd's and Steven Wilson's surround mixes can be had on single discs (SACD/BD) so a lot more of us were able to hear those. Not everyone will buy box sets that expensive, just to hear the surround mix.
    But 2011 was definitely a year for boxes with, let's say, a return of the surround release :-) Now where's that box with unreleased Elton Johns etc.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    I haven't voted yet, as I want to hear the Rush discs, and i'm also waiting to hear Aqualung - arghhh....

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ge Someone View Post
    Pink Floyd's and Steven Wilson's surround mixes can be had on single discs (SACD/BD) so a lot more of us were able to hear those. Not everyone will buy box sets that expensive, just to hear the surround mix.
    couldn't agree more. i don't got this marketing move, when album already done in different formats,
    labels prefer to pack it in one overpriced set thus doing narrowing sales. isn't possible to sell collectors
    box-set and separate, already existent prints at the same time?

  20. #19
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
    Nope. I define reality by reference to real events. Live classical music events are performed (with a few exceptions) in front of an audience with the acoustics of the performance site providing an enveloping ambiance. Recordings of such music which offer a different perspective, such as with the performers surrounding the listener, are divorced from that reality, pure and simple.

    Now, it does not mean that such recordings cannot be enjoyable (I love some of the Tacet recordings but regard them as guilty pleasures) or, indeed, preferable to some listeners but they are not relatable to real performance events. Of course, for studio productions or music for which the composer/performer actually specifies some other perspective, that constraint no longer applies. As for my comment on preferring this to any of the 2L or AIX recordings (many of which I own and enjoy), it is based more on the performers and repertoire than on recording techniques.

    BTW, "true discrete 5.1" has a technical meaning, to me, which distinguishes it from synthesized 5.1 or matrix-encoded formats. It has nothing to do with the listener/performer perspective.

    Kal
    Thanks for the explanation. The producers of TACET and 2L recordings have addressed your points as i'm sure you are aware, so I won't go into that, except to say that the "reality" of the position of the listener in most live events is simple economics only. Creativity in mixing for home entertainment is a separate artistic endeavor and should not be confused with anything other than that. By reality I meant the limits of your perspecitve. We simply don't know what any classical composer thought about the positioning of a listener in their own home listening to a recording. I don't expect to convince you to like real surround sound. And how is it you have dibs on the defintion of "true" discrete 5.1??

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by wanners View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. The producers of TACET and 2L recordings have addressed your points as i'm sure you are aware, so I won't go into that, except to say that the "reality" of the position of the listener in most live events is simple economics only.
    True but the composers created for that expected arrangement. There are instances where they specified different relationships between the performers and audience.

    Creativity in mixing for home entertainment is a separate artistic endeavor and should not be confused with anything other than that.
    Agreed but then the issue of "reality" is moot. BTW, John Culshaw was an advocate of that creativity in stereo times and, although they were controversial, he produced some amazing recordings. They were based on his studies of the composer's text.

    By reality I meant the limits of your perspecitve. We simply don't know what any classical composer thought about the positioning of a listener in their own home listening to a recording.
    Red herring. We do not know what any composer who died before surround/multichannel thought about it. OTOH, have you come across Immersion (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...9TOM/starkland Fascinating.

    I don't expect to convince you to like real surround sound. And how is it you have dibs on the defintion of "true" discrete 5.1??
    I have no more right than anyone else but I parse the term as follows:
    5.1? I think that's obvious.
    Discrete? The channels are not matrixed nor synthesized ad hoc.
    "True?" To what? I have given you my reference. What's yours? For example, how do you define real as in "real surround sound?"
    Kal Rubinson
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    Contributing Editor, Stereophile
    http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    For me "true" surround sound is the use of discrete musical elements in more than just the front speakers. The elements can be one or more instruments/vocals combined, but you can't have to many instuments repeated in all the speakers. So, by those terms, ambience only in the rears and 5ch stereo could not pass for real surround sound in my book. Your amazon link didn't work, can you resend or tell me what it was.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by wanners View Post
    For me "true" surround sound is the use of discrete musical elements in more than just the front speakers. The elements can be one or more instruments/vocals combined, but you can't have to many instuments repeated in all the speakers. So, by those terms, ambience only in the rears and 5ch stereo could not pass for real surround sound in my book.
    I understand that. My issue is that the term "real" is personal and I would prefer to use the term "immersive mix" to describe this more objectively. Clumsy, I know, but communicative.
    Your amazon link didn't work, can you resend or tell me what it was.
    I fixed the link, I think, but here's a different one to the same release: http://www.starkland.com/st2010/index.htm
    Kal Rubinson
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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ge Someone View Post
    I hope the discussion about "ambient surround" vs. "on stage surround" can be continued in a thread of it's own if desired.
    I had hoped that, too.
    "You gotta always remember, the name of the game is 'What does it sound like?' That's always the end result - I don't care if you got 90 tracks. What does it sound like, baby?" - Ray Charles

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    Quote Originally Posted by dr. simple View Post
    I had hoped that, too.
    Well, I was just responding to wanners and he to me. If the mods wish to extract our exchange to a new thread, that's fine. It may or may not live on its own.

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    Default Re: The Year of the Box

    It's a tough vote. The Layla mix is far superior to the SACD, but the PF boxes give us the quad mixes in hirez as well as the 5.1. I don't have the Tull or Who boxes, but I probably should get them. I really don't know any Rush songs, might be something worth looking into for the new year. Since the Dark Side quad was available on the underground DVD-A, the WYWH should get my vote. However, I missed and checked DSOTM. Oh well, they're all good!

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