Gentle Giant's "Free Hand" and "In'terview" coming on DVD audio in february..

[LizardKing]

I've been reading this thread with some interest, and have another idea that 'may' be able to shed some light on whether it's correct or not.

I believe there was a release of this album on CD that had the fans complaining, and it's been suggested that they may have folded down the four channel master for that release.

Personally, i would boubt that. It's more likely they would have used an encoded master instead of the stereo one. So, i ask, does anyone have this CD release?

If so, i could test it to see if it is encoded, and if so this may well answer whether this new release is correct or faulty.

And another thought, has anyone contacted EMI?


OD

I've gone back to Amazon, but not EMI.....

I'll need to mention that I(we) think its RS/LS swapped...

[oxforddickie]

it was an offer in an attempt to put all of the speculation to bed, and if the release is found to be faulty, then a concerted effort could be made to EMI to have it corrected.


OD

[LizardKing]

In regards to Free Hand:

After another listen with RS/LS swapped I'm pretty sure this is correct for the following reasons:

1. No weird double tracked vocals in LF & RS.... they are now LF & LS...
2. Placements better match the original, e.g. opening guitar in LS matches Left in original stereo mix.. & Opening vocal in left (LF & LS) in tracks 1 & 2...
3. It doesn't effect the front channel/ back channel echo's call/responses.

What's the address to contact EMI?

[jdmack]

And if someone does contact EMI about the "Free Hand" quad mix, please suggest that the 14 seconds of silence between "On Reflection" and "Free Hand" might be a mistake as well.

J. D.

[Robert van Diggele]

In regards to Free Hand:

After another listen with RS/LS swapped I'm pretty sure this is correct for the following reasons:

1. No weird double tracked vocals in LF & RS.... they are now LF & LS...
2. Placements better match the original, e.g. opening guitar in LS matches Left in original stereo mix.. & Opening vocal in left (LF & LS) in tracks 1 & 2...
3. It doesn't effect the front channel/ back channel echo's call/responses.

What's the address to contact EMI?

Perhaps we can try EMI Canada again, via their webform, like we did when the 5.1 mix for Aqualung was first announced. Only thing is, which department do we use to make sure the requests go to the same person? Manufacturing/Quality Control?

Perhaps we can use this as well for replacement discs of the said Aqualung BD (without the clicks), or are there other ways to get that one?

[blue.monk]

Well, even though it shares many (if not all) of the instrumental and vocal variances found in the quad mix, it is now evident to me that the One Way mix is NOT derived from the quad. I compared the mixes of 3 tracks (Just the Same, On Reflection, Talybont) from the 3 releases (original stereo, One Way, quad). Each mix contains panning and delay that are distinct from the other versions (even if one were to re-assign the quad channels as suggested previously).

A sample of the many variations I found:

JUST THE SAME
Moog solo - quad and orig. stereo add prominent delay, One Way is almost completely dry

ON REFLECTION
A capella intro - all 3 versions demonstrate unique placement of the 4 vocal parts with only the orig stereo not using the 'center'

TALYBONT
Guitar panned position - center (quad), right (One Way), left (orig. stereo)
Tambourine delay - opposite channel from source (quad), no movement from source (One Way, orig. stereo)

I'm intrigued by these variations. Even if we never solve the mystery of the One Way release I sure have enjoyed revisiting this brilliant LP.

Eric

[LizardKing]

My query with Amazon.co.uk about the channels being swapped is "Still being investigated"...but

"Please be assured that we shall contact you shortly with further information."

[LizardKing]

So has anyone else tried swapping the rear channels - and what do you think?

[jdmack]

So has anyone else tried swapping the rear channels - and what do you think?

I prefer it and think that's it's probably right.

J. D.

[stormchaser]

I gave Interview a shot. I'm not really familiar with Gentle Giant (although I tend to like prog) and although I generally like the mix, I just can't get into this music. As always, YMMV.

[MyCuff]

I gave Interview a shot. I'm not really familiar with Gentle Giant (although I tend to like prog) and although I generally like the mix, I just can't get into this music. As always, YMMV.

Exactly the same for me...

[SMS]

So has anyone else tried swapping the rear channels - and what do you think?

I just created a bluray of "Free Hand" after swapping the rear channels, and I agree that this greatly improves the mix. There is no question in my mind that this was how the mix was intended.

I haven't spent much time comparing to the stereo mix. But, on the original disk, I found there were simply too many instruments or sounds mixed across the LF/RS and RF/LS. Basically, lots of things were mixed diagonally across the sound stage... right through the listener. It just didn't sound right.

Now, I hear those same instruments/sounds mixed to the far left or right. The sounds stage immediately grew in width. It sounds so much better now.

I did have a slight issue creating the bluray with audiomuxer. I ripped the 96kHz/24bit DTS track first. No problems there. Audiomuxer saw the .dts file as 96khz/24bit. But then, I converted the DTS track to mono wav files. These mono wav files are seen as 48khz/24bit. I tried every option I could see, including upsampling to 96khz, and they were always 48khz. Strange. VLC saw them as 48khz too. Although... for some reason VLC also saw the original .dts file as 48khz, rather than 96khz as seen in audiomuxer. Any idea what is going on here?

Anyhow... I gave up and just merged the mono 48khz .wav files in audiomuxer (after swapping the rear channels), and authored the bluray. It sounds so much better despite the potential reduction in sampling frequency.

The mix is truly fantastic after swapping the rear channels. The fidelity isn't stellar, likely due to the age of the recording, but the ambitious mix certainly makes up for it.

I am so glad I made the purchase despite this issue. I've been a fan of "Free Hand" for years, but I am enjoying it much more now. I haven't listened to Interview yet. I never got into that one like I did "Free Hand". Maybe I will now that it is in quad. :-)

Brad

[LizardKing]

FYI - I just got this reply from Amazon UK about the channels being swapped :

I'm writing you back regarding your query about order # 202-7138153-3156335 for the "Free Hand (2012 - Remaster)" audio.

I have received an update from our technical team that the audio on the release of the "Free Hand (2012 - Remaster)" was approved by the band and has been taken directly from the original Quad tapes. It was released here for the first time as the band want it to be heard.

Therefore, they have confirmed that there should be no problem with the audio.

[LizardKing]

............

I did have a slight issue creating the bluray with audiomuxer. I ripped the 96kHz/24bit DTS track first. No problems there. Audiomuxer saw the .dts file as 96khz/24bit. But then, I converted the DTS track to mono wav files. These mono wav files are seen as 48khz/24bit. I tried every option I could see, including upsampling to 96khz, and they were always 48khz. Strange. VLC saw them as 48khz too. Although... for some reason VLC also saw the original .dts file as 48khz, rather than 96khz as seen in audiomuxer. Any idea what is going on here?

Anyhow... I gave up and just merged the mono 48khz .wav files in audiomuxer (after swapping the rear channels), and authored the bluray. It sounds so much better despite the potential reduction in sampling frequency.

......

FYI - I had the same issues.... I think (tell me if I'm wrong) you need a proper DTS decoder not just the "open source" one that comes by default????

[SMS]

FYI - I had the same issues.... I think (tell me if I'm wrong) you need a proper DTS decoder not just the "open source" one that comes by default????

Glad to hear it wasn't just me :-) This was my first attempt at using audiomuxer, so I thought for sure it was operator error.

Perhaps you are right. However, the one that comes with it is certainly able to decode the stream. It just seems to convert it to 48khz.

It is also odd that VLC sees the ripped DTS stream as 48khz, while audiomuxer sees it as 96khz. VLC doesn't usually get those things wrong.

[SMS]

FYI - I just got this reply from Amazon UK about the channels being swapped :

I'm writing you back regarding your query about order # 202-7138153-3156335 for the "Free Hand (2012 - Remaster)" audio.

I have received an update from our technical team that the audio on the release of the "Free Hand (2012 - Remaster)" was approved by the band and has been taken directly from the original Quad tapes. It was released here for the first time as the band want it to be heard.

Therefore, they have confirmed that there should be no problem with the audio.

Hmmm... interesting. I am not sure where Amazon would get this information. It is not like they have a relationship with "the band". Perhaps they passed the question along to EMI, and this response came from EMI. If so, I guess there is little chance of EMI releasing a "fixed" version.

I guess it isn't absolutely obvious that the rear channels are swapped. If the band did actually listen to the Quad before the release, would they have picked up on the Error? If there wasn't talk about it here, I am not sure I would've picked up on it. I may have just thought the LF/RS vocal mix was a strange choice. Once you are listening for the error, however, I found there were clues in most of the tracks.

[capsid]

How about contacting Dan Barrett who runs the official web site?

http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/Dan_Barrett

He may be able to contact the band members directly to ask them.

[jdmack]

How about contacting Dan Barrett who runs the official web site?

http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/Dan_Barrett

He may be able to contact the band members directly to ask them.

I actually did that around the time of my postings above. I received no response.

J. D.

[Old Quad Guy]

Regardless, I'm really grateful Gentle Giant put these releases out there with the original Quad mixes. These mixes could just as easily be sitting there still in the vaults otherwise as most bands have done so far. So I'm putting my order in for both through Amazon U.K.

Free Hand (2012 - Remaster) [CD+DVD]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Free-Hand-Ge...t_mus_ep_dpi_1

In'terview (2012 - Remaster) [CD+DVD]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/InTerview-Ge...2484522&sr=1-2

[John Svensson]

I must pay my compliments to CD Universe on my defective copy of this, they accepted it for return and replaced it with the correct CD/DVD surround package....and they even opened it and played the DVD disk for me to ensure that it was also not defective before shipping it to me <having asked my permission>. Bravo.
Can't add anything to the mis-mixed debate as I 've only given it one run through......but I liked these guys quirky time signatures and the instrumentation is first rate. The use of the rear speakers is direct from 1975! Me likey. John

[Ge Someone]

However, the one that comes with it is certainly able to decode the stream. It just seems to convert it to 48khz.

It is not so strange. The DTS formats are backwards compatible. DTS 96/24 is an extension to normal DTS (48kHz, full bitrate). So a DTS 96/24 stream contains also the DTS core which decoders use that can't handle the 96/24 extension. (The same with DTS-ES and even DTS-HD).

What you need seems to be AudioMuxer together with the ArcSoft DTS decoder. Or maybe eac3to (not 100% sure about DTS 96/24 with that).

[Ge Someone]

Has anyone else tried comparing quad decoding of the One Way CD with the quad mix on this release?

FWIW I've read that the (wrong) One Way CD was from a rough mix tape that should not have been used at all.

[David Barrickman]

This may be a dumb question please forgive me I am a bit of a newbie...
Is the DVD playable on a US region 1 player? My concern is since it is UK

release it is a region 2 DVD...none of the players that I use at home are region free...
Have any of you been able to play the DVD on a US/Canada region 1 player?
Latecomer to this thread, read it all and very informative...long time GG fan. Thanks very much!

P.S visited Amazon UK looked at product description/details and did not see info about what region code the DVDs in these two releases are...could the discs be "region free" since they are music not a movie?

[elroy]

^^^
Yes, I have no problem with the DVD.

[David Barrickman]

Thanks a lot! Guess I'll be placing my 1st order with Amazon UK...my local independent brick and mortar "record" store
sadly went out of business recently. Looking forward to hearing these quad mixes!