DVD/DTS Poll Gentle Giant - Free Hand [DTS 96-24/DD DVD+CD]

I see that there's been more chatter on channel swapping since I last checked this thread. I tried the swap suggested by ArmyOfQuad and I do believe he nailed it. The soundstage is much better defined and makes for a stronger surround presentation. Unfortunately the sound remains very woolly which I suspect is due more to the source material than the mastering. So based on the swapped-channel version I give it an 8.

I love the material and hope that this title might be on Mr. Wilson's 'to do' list.

This is my second GG album (The Power And The Glory was my first), and I think the musical content is really fantastic. This album has all the technical brilliance and syncopations of TPATG, but has a more loose, organic feel with a warmer and more melodic sound... It also rocks a little more with a stronger guitar presence. I feel echoes of Yes and Steely Dan several times throughout the album. The sound quality is a little compressed with some audible clipping, but overall full and enjoyable. The mix is discrete and the song "On Reflection" is a surround showpiece (after correcting the channel reassignments and balancing the left and right channels). I give this an 8 (after channel reassignment).

skherbeck, you might want to pick up "Playing The Fool" which is Gentle Giant's live album from that period. It's fascinating to see how they significantly reworked some of the songs in concert, particularly "On Reflection." And in some cases (such as the sonn "Free Hand") they rock even harder than the studio version.

jdmack said:

skherbeck, you might want to pick up "Playing The Fool" which is Gentle Giant's live album from that period. It's fascinating to see how they significantly reworked some of the songs in concert, particularly "On Reflection." And in some cases (such as the sonn "Free Hand") they rock even harder than the studio version.

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This is "On Reflection" from 1978... vocals start around 2:50
[video=youtube;z6WSLG5r-wE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6WSLG5r-wE[/video]

Playing the FOOLE is one of the best live albums ever released. Clean full capture of virtuoso performances rearranging their repertoire seemingly on the spot. They were still at the top of their game and the material to make for a great listen. I saw them 5 times during this era.

"We now return to Free Hand which frankly will be played next."


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timbre4 said:

I saw them 5 times during this era.

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Soooo jealous.

timbre4 said:

Playing the FOOLE is one of the best live albums ever released. Clean full capture of virtuoso performances rearranging their repertoire seemingly on the spot. They were still at the top of their game and the material to make for a great listen.

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I have a mint One Way Records CD edition (no compression!) of Playing The Fool for sale. If anybody interested, shoot me a PM.

grill said:

So according to my calculation after the channel swap tweak the channels as follows:

FL: 0.77 dB increase
FR: 0.47 dB decrease
SR: 0.30 dB decrease

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How did you arrive there? I tried doing that in Audacity and I ended up with the vocals on "Just The Same" being a bit left-of-front-center.

JediJoker said:

How did you arrive there? I tried doing that in Audacity and I ended up with the vocals on "Just The Same" being a bit left-of-front-center.

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I tried using those numbers and it didn't sound right... so I adjusted each song individually by raising the left channels to variable degrees until the mix sounded balanced. Kind of a pain to do, but I got good results.

Did this:

Channels re-assigned as per ArmyOfQuad’s recommendations:


Move front left to front right
Move front right to rear right
Move rear right to front left

Non-clipping gain changes made to the mono WAV files (to balance the channel levels) using Audacity:

Left front: No gain
Front right: -1.24 dB gain
Rear left: -0.77 dB gain
Rear right: -1.07 dB gain

(psoted this on a different Free hand thread -- maybe it belongs here)

Is the LFE on this 5.0 release just derived from the bass from the original quad mix? Giving us 'doubled' bass here?

If so, are people deleting the LFE when they do the channel swaps (i.e., converting it back to 'true' quad)?

I'll answer your question with a question: what does the zero to the right of the decimal point tell us?

Werno said:

I'll answer your question with a question: what does the zero to the right of the decimal point tell us?

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It means that it's a multichannel mix without an LFE (Low Frequency Enhancement) channel.
But in this instance, this disc is actually a 4.1 multichannel disc as it actually has an LFE channel but no center channel.

Werno said:

I'll answer your question with a question: what does the zero to the right of the decimal point tell us?

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Slip of the fingers. It's a 4.1 release. So the questions stands. Care to answer it?

ssully said:

(psoted this on a different Free hand thread -- maybe it belongs here)

Is the LFE on this 5.0 release just derived from the bass from the original quad mix? Giving us 'doubled' bass here?

If so, are people deleting the LFE when they do the channel swaps (i.e., converting it back to 'true' quad)?

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The LFE is derived from the Quad mix that's for sure. But as this version was remastered, maybe the engineer decided to add some lower bass content to the LFE to spice things up a bit.

As for getting rid of it, I haven't because I didn't check if the engineer didn't shave some bass content out of the other channels to make the Sub channel. Deleting the LFE in that case would give a mix that is too light in bass.

In short, I don't know either way, would have to check.

I tried the swapped channels version (ArmyofQuad's recommendation) today with and without LFE, and with and without the minor channel level adjustments (i.e., lowering three of the four channels a little bit by different amounts -- I used LizardKing's setting).

First, the channel swapping alone makes a huge improvement to the mix. It's no longer incoherent. It sound like 'Free Hand' again.

LFE vs no LFE: There is *plenty* of redirected bass there without the LFE, so I'm thinking leave it out (leave it as 4.0).

Level adjustments: These seem to make an inconsequential difference -- I didn't note a significant shift in the centering of vocals -- but I'll explore that further. I did note that even in the adjusted version the right rear channel sounds a bit too prominent so there's room for experimentation here.

I'm in for a new "definitive" fix for this, and especially if someone with the software tools to do it in 96/24 would be willing to share when completed. I can do it in Audacity in 48/24, but that's not ideal.

Just got this yesterday and it is FUCKING AWESOME!!!! A 10 all day long from me.

Is the DTS disc out of print, or can someone locate a link for purchase? I've not had any luck.

GOS said:

Is the DTS disc out of print, or can someone locate a link for purchase? I've not had any luck.

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There are some 3rd-party sellers still selling it on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Free-Hand-Gentle-Giant/dp/B006CNR0BG/