Neil Young Files For Trademark on New Digital Audio Format

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I DO look down upon those for whom MP3 is good enough. Many have never heard a good hi-fi system. Yet, in our priveledged society, I find it impossible to believe that people are unaware quality sound reproduction exists.

On mentioning being into high fidelity, I've been chastized by some who remember mono being the only choice. "Haven't you heard, girl, they invented a thing called stereo." They've heard stereo, and maybe surround, too. But they wouldn't know HIGH FIDELITY if it bit them in the ASS!!

And we wonder why a viable Quad/surround format is SO elusive, at least from a marketing standpoint. Let's face it, people dig pink slime.

And it does all come back to MP3 because, hey, that is the standard now. I just find it wholly inadequate on my sound system at home. I don't look down upon those who do and for whom MP3 is good enough.
 
I DO look down upon those for whom MP3 is good enough. Many have never heard a good hi-fi system. Yet, in our priveledged society, I find it impossible to believe that people are unaware quality sound reproduction exists.

In 2012, portability trumps quality. It doesn't matter whether they've "heard a good hi-fi system." Today's listeners prefers packing as many songs onto a 32 GB IPhone as can be. We can identify any number of better formats from the past, but the past is just that.

The question is whether this idea, as supposedly pitched by that bastion of modern taste, Neil Young, to Steve Jobs, has a prayer, and I think that you need to work with people where they are at this very minute in order to get them to better quality sound.
 
Back in the 90's when we lived in San Francisco, my wife used to travel regularly for work and always tried to get a first class upgrade on her flights. On one particular flight she was told that first class was sold out. As the plane was getting ready to depart she said a family got on board and occupied the entire first class section, leaving many seats vacant and led by someone who she described as "a homeless looking guy." She pointed out the vacant seats to her neighbor who looked up and informed her that it was Neil Young.

The nerve of that guy, buying first class tickets for himself and his family. I bet Frank Zappa never did anything like that. :)
 
DKA, I agree with you completely. With all due respect, I think you missed what I had written between the lines. I'll spell it out: between the size of these files, the storage space needed, and mainly people's disinterest in high fidelity, this format doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. The patent(s) may get approved, and it may even come to market. It will sink like a stone.

The average consumer doesn't care about fidelity or surround sound. All they care about is convenience and hearing the music, regardless of fidelity. I hope someone can find a way to bridge the gap between that and performance. I don't see that happening in this case.

In 2012, portability trumps quality. It doesn't matter whether they've "heard a good hi-fi system." Today's listeners prefers packing as many songs onto a 32 GB IPhone as can be. We can identify any number of better formats from the past, but the past is just that.

The question is whether this idea, as supposedly pitched by that bastion of modern taste, Neil Young, to Steve Jobs, has a prayer, and I think that you need to work with people where they are at this very minute in order to get them to better quality sound.
 
The nerve of that guy, buying first class tickets for himself and his family. I bet Frank Zappa never did anything like that. :)

I guess I would too if I could afford it. My point was that his family only took up 4 or 5 seats of the 12-16 seats in first class, depending on the size of the cabin, yet he bought out the entire cabin.
 
The average consumer doesn't care about fidelity or surround sound. All they care about is convenience and hearing the music, regardless of fidelity. I hope someone can find a way to bridge the gap between that and performance. I don't see that happening in this case.

Yeah. We're on the same page. :)

I still maintain that the fashionable high-end headphone craze could be the start of something, though.
 
Funny I seem to be able to download 24/192 albums that are close to the size of a DVD usually in about an hour or two. Why would it take all night to download an album? Is he assuming the folks who are clamoring for a high res streaming service will be using dial up?
Also I have an Oppo that currently plays every format (just about) known to man. I for one will NOT be purchasing any format dreamed up by the RIAA or Neil Young that requires new equipment. And what is wrong with the codecs we have now? If he is looking to expand musical quality I am all for that. If it is just another way to sell me more equipment--FAIL! Seriously, don't care if it's a shiny disc or a download, if I cannot play it with my current equipment FORGET IT! 24/192 is pretty much overkill for anything. Irregardless of that, the technology already exists for great sound quality. It's up to the consumer to buy it, and the music industry to supply it. Although it increases file size an interesting use of existing technologies to include 5.1 mix, stereo, CD qual, studio qual in the same file stored on a server (your own server thank you very much) and adapts to whatever device it is being streamed to. If it detects 5 speakers, it adaptively outputs 5.1, if it finds an iPod device it defaults to CD qual stereo. I am not certain but I think most of this stuff exists in some form. DTS HD has a core DTS file and folds down to stereo...So I am not sure what the point of his venture really is. If he wants to tout the virtues of high res how about releasing a great album in high res! Of course if you put out music no one wants to hear the quality of that music doesn't make too much of a difference if no one wants to hear it. If it was all about quality we would all be listening to classical SACDs right?
 
Funny I seem to be able to download 24/192 albums that are close to the size of a DVD usually in about an hour or two. Why would it take all night to download an album? Is he assuming the folks who are clamoring for a high res streaming service will be using dial up?
Also I have an Oppo that currently plays every format (just about) known to man. I for one will NOT be purchasing any format dreamed up by the RIAA or Neil Young that requires new equipment. And what is wrong with the codecs we have now? If he is looking to expand musical quality I am all for that. If it is just another way to sell me more equipment--FAIL! Seriously, don't care if it's a shiny disc or a download, if I cannot play it with my current equipment FORGET IT! 24/192 is pretty much overkill for anything. Irregardless of that, the technology already exists for great sound quality. It's up to the consumer to buy it, and the music industry to supply it. Although it increases file size an interesting use of existing technologies to include 5.1 mix, stereo, CD qual, studio qual in the same file stored on a server (your own server thank you very much) and adapts to whatever device it is being streamed to. If it detects 5 speakers, it adaptively outputs 5.1, if it finds an iPod device it defaults to CD qual stereo. I am not certain but I think most of this stuff exists in some form. DTS HD has a core DTS file and folds down to stereo...So I am not sure what the point of his venture really is. If he wants to tout the virtues of high res how about releasing a great album in high res! Of course if you put out music no one wants to hear the quality of that music doesn't make too much of a difference if no one wants to hear it. If it was all about quality we would all be listening to classical SACDs right?

I think that Neil pretty much gave up on surround several years ago- the key point for his new digital audio format is to offer content that is high quality AND can be played back on a portable device (MP3 player/I Phone/etc). I find a hole in the logic of high end headphones for I Phones without high end content and I am just as skeptical of the introduction of another codec/device that will make my cereal taste better too!
 
Well the other somewhat astonishing thing is that given the quality of DACs in things like iPods and the ilk is why we are pondering high resolution on such portable devices. This is the one space where you are quite unlikely to notice and/or appreciate the extra bits that are cursing thru it's circuitry. First, the iWhathaveyou is no audiophile player. Second, pairing a 300 dollar plus set of phones will help that a bit if the player can drive them. Most of the phones that make an obvious difference are likely difficult to drive and require a headphone amp. Once driven, one clearly lacks the convenience given the fact that you need to also carry the headphone amp around to drive the phones. A hole in the logic is spot on! I can't imagine the average iWhatever owner paying enough attention while they are out on the town for serious critical listening (the type of listening where you hear those things you never heard before in a recording because you are LISTENING for them!) to be able to tell the difference. And if they are listening at home, surely we would hope they are using something better than an iWhathaveyou. Either way it seems like a solution in search of a problem as all the ducks are already lined up for all this to happen if them 'they's want it to happen.
 
Relax - it's all good - just being a little silly - perhaps a bit off topic and passionately so - you'd have to go way off the charts to match some of the rants on this forum - but we're a pretty mellow bunch all in all!
 
At one time, around 1991, a 40 MB external hard drive around the size of an 8 Track was considered "large format," that we used for audio recording with the Apple computers at that time. So at some point with technology moving forward as it is, seeing it explode here all these years, one would think that portability and device size and DACs will not be an issue in the future. They just need to make these things, you can't buy what isn't being sold. At some point someone will make money at this as there is the market. "MP3 isn't all that great" is the word being spread to those who don't know. There is also I'm sure some format that's already out there that will work on devices we already own that could perhaps be sold as a "high resolution format." Some 24/48 or 24/96 .Wav files or other format? At some point folks will want something better for their money if its offered to them at same or a reasonable price, if for nothing else then that it's different or "new and improved.".
 
You know what, though? I like portability. I like my IPhone. I like that I'm legally currently streaming the new Dr. John album on Spotify through my phone in the office while I type this. None of this is actually bad (well, except if you're the struggling young artist. They've moved the goalpost on you too.) It's just occurred at the cost of something else that's also near and dear to me. MP3's sound terrible on everything other than my phone. It's absolute true.

As a major fan of the Logitech Squeezebox line, I decided over the weekend to try an app that turns my Android phone into another Squeezebox on the network. Using a fairly nice pair of full-sized Shure headphones, I was absolutely shocked at how good it sounded. I'd played around with the music player built into the phone and wasn't especially impressed, in large part because it's so not gapless.

What it means in the real world is that when I'm at home basking in the glorious cancer rays of my wireless network, I have a lossless player in my back pocket that lets me wander all over the house. My entire collection is also available to me anywhere I have a fast Internet connection.

Unfortunately, I can't connect my phone up at work, so I have a dedicated Squeezebox Touch sitting on my desk. I just rotate through SD cards, filling one up at home while the other one sits in the player.

Currently typing this while sitting on the couch listening to the DTS track from Peter Gabriel's "Play" DVD, which I ripped to hard drive and put in a FLAC wrapper so it will play on the Squeezeboxes.

Yeah, I'm obsessed.
 
Neil has championed LPs over CDs, then DVD-A over everything, then 24/96 DVD-V audio, and then Blu-Ray over everything. Now this.
You forgot HDCD...


i love NY and he's probably my favorite artist, but this guy changes his mind and changes his interests faster than I upgrade this forum software!
Agree totally. As someone said, we've already got FLAC (and MP3) - what more do we need?
 
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