Reality Technologies - New surround technology

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Me again

Just noticed that the pdf did not work out well. To make sense of it - it is 6 pages in groups of 2 - print them, cut them in groups of 2 pages and stick them together left to right! Sorry about this if you want I will get my geek to fix it tomorrow.

Regards

Charlie
 
Hello Charlie:

Is the Involve decoder a proper QS decoder, and if so, will it carry the QS logo?

thanks from JohnR

Hello John

The Involve decoder has it core equations based on the old QS equations as I could not see any good reason to depart from them, it is a fully circular system refer"if it ain't broke don't fix it!" Aside from the fact that we have moved the old QS into the digital age with full DSP processing, we depart from Sansui's decoders in specific area's such as the phase detector system, fully dual slope tri band time constants and the way the system perceives directional dominance is more tailored to the human brain/ ear combination.

The development of this decoder was not a trivial exercise - in fact it has taken 4 years from the initial hardware based (can send photo's if you want, extremely complicated!) system to the new software based DSP electronics that offers precise tolerances.

Please not the Involve decoder also decodes 5.1 (not a fan - sorry to offend anyone!) fully providing actual separated center and separated left/ right and sub output. We do not use this mode ourselves as our other system Total Perspective removes the need for a center channel.

Involve departs from QS significantly in our encode matrix as we have established a technique to get around the old QS problem of the encode "stereo" mix having a compacted image. The new intelligent Involve encoder will be released in a few months as we are putting some finishing touches to it. I am being deliberately a bit secretive on its details (as patents are being finalized) but suffice to say BOTH the encode "stereo" mix and the decoded surround mix are indistinguishable to discrete (refer our internal test reports- they are real!).

A forum member
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/member.php?109-rustyandi

Has one of our trial Involve decoders (as he is about 20Klm from our factory), please refer to his observations on
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?16066-QS-Fans-your-prayers-are-answered
 
Hi All

just noticed "rustiandi" thread was closed down so Just thought I would thank "rustiandi" for his observations and as a note to everyone I will issue "rustiandi" with an encoder in a few months time to play with and hopefully report to this forum

Regards

Charlie
 
If you look up
QS fans your prayers are answered
I am still playing with it (the unit)
Ron
 
Hello Justin

We would be happy to provide a beta (metal case) Involve decoder to someone of this forum with sufficient equipment/ experience and is well know to others. The new intelligent Involve encoder will be available in a few months time.

Regards

Charlie
 
Hello Justin

We would be happy to provide a beta (metal case) Involve decoder to someone of this forum with sufficient equipment/ experience and is well know to others. The new intelligent Involve encoder will be available in a few months time.

Regards

Charlie

Charlie:

I would recommend that your generous offer be formally placed through Jon Urban.

Justin
 
Charlie has brought a updated model for me to try
He has made the the rear channels stereo with a rear centre
It is now as good (or) better separation than the QSD1
The difference will be found by the Golden ears
But mine have turned to silver
The point is that this the best QS decoder I have played with since the QSD1 (I have had for 35 years)
Steely Dan, Play it again the rear channel has the solo break in both channels with
a centre.
the Enoch Light tracks are full surround all channels almost discrete
Charlie said that one of the units is going to a club member
I will wait to hear what he thinks
 
Charlie has brought a updated model for me to try
He has made the the rear channels stereo with a rear centre
It is now as good (or) better separation than the QSD1
The difference will be found by the Golden ears
But mine have turned to silver
The point is that this the best QS decoder I have played with since the QSD1 (I have had for 35 years)
Steely Dan, Play it again the rear channel has the solo break in both channels with
a centre.
the Enoch Light tracks are full surround all channels almost discrete
Charlie said that one of the units is going to a club member
I will wait to hear what he thinks

Good news! It is great to hear of successful product development.
 
Hi Ron

Thanks for your feedback, as the product has not been officially released yet it is great to get an outsiders view (sometimes I am too close to see ). Could you also do some tests of comparative separation to your QS1, please listen for any false artefacts such as surging, pumping or squeaks etc.

Regards

Charlie

Charlie has brought a updated model for me to try
He has made the the rear channels stereo with a rear centre
It is now as good (or) better separation than the QSD1
The difference will be found by the Golden ears
But mine have turned to silver
The point is that this the best QS decoder I have played with since the QSD1 (I have had for 35 years)
Steely Dan, Play it again the rear channel has the solo break in both channels with
a centre.
the Enoch Light tracks are full surround all channels almost discrete
Charlie said that one of the units is going to a club member
I will wait to hear what he thinks
 
Hello all - I'm David, I worked on the implementation of our surround sound processor in its current form. I found these poking around, we acquired them back when we started our research into all of this, but we never used them. Just thought you'd appreciate a glimpse of history here. :)

QS chips_resize.jpg
 
Hi

We issued a beta Involve decoder to a Hi Fi dealer in Melbourne and asked him to live with the unit and write a summary of his observations. I include this below. Personally I do not get the effect of sweet spot reduction that Michael experienced but we all experience sound differently. I have noted previously Michael has remarkably acute hearing. As reviews become available I will submit them to the forum (warts and all). See below:

Hi folks,
Today I am reviewing Reality Designs "Involve" decoder box. What is "Involve" you ask? Well this is Reality’s new take on traditional surround sound technology, and inside this seemingly simple unit, is a treasure trove of innovative technology, capable of achieving results never before heard.

The unit can be used in a number of ways, with any medium. The first method is to connect any conventional stereo signal into the unit, then simply outputting the 2 channel output into your amplifier. Upon doing this for the first time, the first few seconds of audio may not sound all that different to the untrained ear, but sure enough after a very short period of time you will notice your favourite recordings seem to contain significant, never before heard nuances, that seem to encapsulate you from every direction.

By nuances I mean that unlike traditional processing methods, "Involve" doesn’t overload your sense of reality, with un-natural and obvious effects, it rather works to rectify the imaging shortfalls of traditional stereo by "opening" the sound stage. Exactly how this is achieved is unclear to all but a handful of people, but what is clear is the result. Imagine if you will, a traditional quadraphonic or surround sound setup IE: Dolby Digital or DTS, these systems have never been considered an ideal method of musical audio reproduction , as they are fundamentally flawed (unnatural sound environment, frequency response, time and phase coherence, etc) when compared to two channel stereo setups suited to only one listener location. This location I am referring to, is of course the dreaded "sweet spot" which brings me to "Involve's" next attribute, as the unit is throwing different elements of the recording all around your head, it is allowing the people seated either side of you to also experience the soundstage, meaning no more fighting over the sweet spot!

The "Involve's" technology basically takes every aspect of two channel stereo, and spreads it around the room in every direction, front to back, up to down, left to right. This is just the tip of the iceberg though as Reality/Involve have their own encoding system, specifically engineered to work in conjunction with any "Involve" decoder. These encoded recordings are like comparing original Dolby Surround to Dolby Digital, in that all aspects of the "Involve" experience are more concise and outstanding than if you were simply playing a stereo recording through the unit, listening to Cold Chisel's "Saturday Night" you can hear the ambiance of a REAL bar or club at the beginning of the song that has you wondering "Where are the other speaker?", and by others I mean Three or even Four. This effect continues throughout the song and indeed any other piece of music that has been encoded with "Involve", this process can be simply achieved with a separate "involve" encoder. But remember all these results can be achieved with Two or Four channels.

Two channel results are dwarfed by the ideal Four channel setting, which essentially doubles the effect of the two channel setup, throwing sound from every corner of the room to the point where it becomes even harder to determine which speaker the elements of the recording originate. You can't help but marvel at the almost ghostly aura you experience, as you wonder how four speakers can sound more like eight (or more). What is just as amazing is the unit's even greater ability to eliminate that darn sweet spot, this improvement is again due to utilising four channels rather than two.

Now if you use Dolby 5.1 don't fret, as this unit is easily compatible with existing setups, you are still able to connect it to your current 5.1ch Amplifier via discreet 5.1 outputs also featured on the unit, meaning your current setup wont need to be drastically altered.

In conclusion, this unit is unlike anything I have ever listened to in all my years and is at the forefront of today's surround technologies, it is compatible with all of today’s sources, is easy to use, compact, well priced, and thoroughly impressive, this unit simply must be heard to be believed, it will be available soon for $395 USD, so get ready to dust off your tired old music collection, and listen to your favourites like never before!

Melbourne HiFi Exchange & Mart,
1307 Mt Dandenong Tourist Road, Kalorama, Vic, 3766, +61
3 9728 4736..
 
I had the pleasure to hear the unit in question at Rons place, the quad sound was very clear and seperation is excelent. I am very impressed. Thanks to Ron for allowing me to preview this equipment.
 
I have had the complete pleasure to demo the Involve Surround Decoder. I decoded several QS LPs and CD's that still contain the encoding. They were all three Steely Dan titles, Jim Croce, Rufus - Rags To Rufus, Pharoah Sanders and a bunch more. I had previously done decodes of the Steely's, Rufus and Croce's using the scripts which got great results. The results from the ISD, to my ears, provided all of the separation in excellent fidelity without some of the artifacts that sometimes occur with the scripts (though the new SQ and QS Final scripts are awesome). All channels were crystal clear with no artifacts. I was really amazed.

I also played several regular stereo titles through the 4 channel outputs with varying results. Some titles like "Deceptive Bends" by 10CC and "Somewhere I've Never Traveled" by Ambrosia sounded like the real deal through the decoder. Much like using Dolby Pro Logic II, the results depends on the source.

What I wasn't able to really audition to the fullest was the 5.1 outputs. There was a pumping in the fronts that made the sounds a bit uneven. After emailing back and forth with Charlie, he seems to think that this is an easy fix. I sent him the results of the decoding so he could hear for himself what I was experiencing. The rears were not effected by the pumping because they are always the constant. If you look at the picture, you will see that there are 2 different surround outputs available (4.0 and 5.1). Both use the same rear outputs but the fronts change when using 5.1. For example, the lead vocals, bass and some drums would be in the center during 5.1 auditioning (most likely more mono sources in the mix). When listening to the 4.0 outputs, those sounds were spread across the fronts while the rears seemed to remain the same.

I am really enjoying running different sources through the box to hear what happens. If Charlie can get the 5.1 straightened out (which i would imagine would be a small tweak) this box is truly a winner. Next test will be SQ material.

By the way, I did up a new version of the Rufus album using the QS vinyl to DVDA and the opening of You Got The Love has the opening guitar riff dead in the rears with almost no leakage (other than the reverb of the guitar) in the front. Amazing!!! Do It Again sounds better through the box than it did using the script. Again the sound was clean with excellent (and correct) separation.

Watch for this box when it becomes available. I will be ordering one. I'm that impressed.

BTW... The reason I had to overlay the printing on the box is because my camera SUCKS!!!! I will try to add more pics of the box that are actually in focus....
 

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