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Thread: TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Sooooo.....
    We have another Tomita release from the Quad era(this time to SACD), with Stereo , etc. included....
    scheduled for release in July..
    The question in everyone's mind is...
    will it be another insult to us quad fans like the travesty that was the "Planets" DVD-A (sic) released a few years ago, which was a needledrop of the CD-4 LP (which wans't even cleaned/Click Repaired)????

    Since it's a "japanese" release, like the "Planets" one, info on this will probably not be easily available and we'll have to wait until somebody here gets a copy and reports.
    Please excuse my skepticism or I don't hold my breath, it IS based on experience...
    ...
    Let's hope for the best...
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Oh yes! This has been on my wish list for ever. Fingers crossed.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    might be a re-recording like the planets sacd.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfQuad View Post
    might be a re-recording like the planets sacd.
    Probably, see http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COGQ-59 There in Japanese (bing translation):

    Isao Tomita / Moon light ULTIMATE EDITION [SACD-Hybrid]Masterpiece, "light," a remake of the full, surround sound for. In addition to production of new "cloud" and "Arabesque No. 2" origin of the Tomita synth work more shine, return!

    EDIT
    Btw, the Tomita Planets SACD is effectively quad (4.0). I guess the next one will be the same.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Does any body know if it is a
    Multi channel release
    The picture does not show or I cannot
    see any reference to it?

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1


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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    So it seems as if this is just a re-issue with extra tracks. I only have the vinyl and CD. Is this quad mix worth buying or not?

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    [QUOTE Is this quad mix worth buying or not?[/QUOTE]

    All the Tomita quad mixes are pretty adventurous and well done as I recall.....so, if this is the original 4.0 quad mix being released as an SACD....it sounds like it would be pretty good to me, even without any bonus tracks.
    Last edited by John Svensson; 06-21-2012 at 02:20 PM. Reason: sp.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    I think this re-issue is actually a remake. I don't know how it compares with the previous quad releases.

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by grill View Post
    I think this re-issue is actually a remake. I don't know how it compares with the previous quad releases.
    I would disagree...
    at 80 years old, I don't think Isao would be up for a remake...
    besides m the DVD_A of the planets was NOT a remake, it was a goddamn NEEDLE DROP from the CD-4 LP...without declicking!!! The clicks are VERY audible!
    This is simply a reissue, which hopefully they got from the REAL quad masters....

    and your extra dose of radiation with it!
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
    -------------------------------------
    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    It is said that the Planets SACD is a remake: http://www.classitronic.net/tag/tomi...imate-edition/ And the same for this next one: http://columbia.jp/tomitaproject/

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    My ears don't lie, and I SOLD the Planets disc...it was a SLOPPY needle drop, you are free to believe whatever you want to , but my ears don't lie....
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    I was talking about the SACD release not the DVDA.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by grill View Post
    I was talking about the SACD release not the DVDA.
    AAHhhh!!!!!

    Sorry... I'm still upset by that "DVD-A"

    anyway, man, RECREATING those masterpieces has got to be a labor o' love!!!
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
    -------------------------------------
    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    5.1 icon Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Hello

    Just recieved my copy of Clair de Lune, SACD Ultimate Edition today (Denon COGQ-59). Sound quality is up their with Planets Ultimate Edition. Very pleased. It comes in 4 Chanel Surround / SACD Stereo and CD Stereo. Notes mention: Producer - Isao Tomita. Recording & Mixing Surround / 2ch-Stereo - Isao Tomita. Mastering and Tech Support Yumiko Yamashita and Shingo Fuyuki.

    Very clean version, sleeve mentions that; 'New equipment used for dramatically better sound from original image, SACD is the new master', ..Tomita, quote ..'strongly impress the listeners on the image of this surround sound work'.

    As well recieved The Tale of Genji Ultimate Edition. SACD's comes as a 5 Chanel Surround.

    This brings me up to date with Vol.3.

    Sleeve states that the next SACD release will be of Pictures at an Exhibition and Canyon Fantasy...
    Last edited by Sound7; 06-24-2012 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Forgot to add

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sound7 View Post
    Hello

    Just recieved my copy of Clair de Lune, SACD Ultimate Edition today (Denon COGQ-59). Sound quality is up their with Planets Ultimate Edition. Very pleased. It comes in 4 Chanel Surround / SACD Stereo and CD Stereo. Notes mention: Producer - Isao Tomita. Recording & Mixing Surround / 2ch-Stereo - Isao Tomita. Mastering and Tech Support Yumiko Yamashita and Shingo Fuyuki. Very clean version.

    As well recieved The Tale of Genji Ultimate Edition. SACD's comes as a 5 Chanel Surround.
    Ordered!! Is the Genji one worth ordering too? I'm not familiar with the music. I have The Planets on vinyl but was not a big fan of that. Somehow Debussy works though.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by capsid View Post
    Ordered!! Is the Genji one worth ordering too? I'm not familiar with the music. I have The Planets on vinyl but was not a big fan of that. Somehow Debussy works though.
    I do belive that Genji is well worth it. To be honext though, I'll be buying all this new series as it comes out. Planets isn't one of my favorites either, however I eagerly await future released. Genji I find just different, and have on this occasion really enjoyed paying attention to the production.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sound7 View Post
    Hello

    Just recieved my copy of Clair de Lune, SACD Ultimate Edition today (Denon COGQ-59). Sound quality is up their with Planets Ultimate Edition. Very pleased. It comes in 4 Chanel Surround / SACD Stereo and CD Stereo. Notes mention: Producer - Isao Tomita. Recording & Mixing Surround / 2ch-Stereo - Isao Tomita. Mastering and Tech Support Yumiko Yamashita and Shingo Fuyuki.

    Very clean version, sleeve mentions that; 'New equipment used for dramatically better sound from original image, SACD is the new master', ..Tomita, quote ..'strongly impress the listeners on the image of this surround sound work'.

    As well recieved The Tale of Genji Ultimate Edition. SACD's comes as a 5 Chanel Surround.

    This brings me up to date with Vol.3.

    Sleeve states that the next SACD release will be of Pictures at an Exhibition and Canyon Fantasy...
    Nice! Glad to see that Tomita is still making Surround Sound releases !

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by grill View Post
    Probably, see http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COGQ-59 There in Japanese (bing translation):

    Isao Tomita / Moon light ULTIMATE EDITION [SACD-Hybrid]Masterpiece, "light," a remake of the full, surround sound for. In addition to production of new "cloud" and "Arabesque No. 2" origin of the Tomita synth work more shine, return!

    EDIT
    Btw, the Tomita Planets SACD is effectively quad (4.0). I guess the next one will be the same.

    Thanks for the link. I now have it on order. This was one of the first Quad records I owned.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Quote Originally Posted by bmoura View Post
    Nice! Glad to see that Tomita is still making Surround Sound releases !
    Yes! I consider him as the oldest living Quad artist.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune- Ultimate Edition(Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    grill - thanks for posting the blog link! I'm definitely sold now. Based off of the samples he posted I know what kind of changes to expect and they sound alright to me!

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Tomita's music has inspired me since the early 80s and while I don't know every detail I think I can shed some light.

    The 6/2012 released "Claire de Lune Ultimate Edition" is a tasteful 2012 reworking/recreation of the 1974 album in 4.0 SACD with a CD compatible layer. Unfortunately I don't have a multichannel HDMI system for my SACD so I can't comment there. The back story is Tomita initially signed with U.S. RCA and his 1974 debut was titled "Snowflakes are Dancing". RCA Japan (now Sony), once he signed to RCA internationally released them and continues to release them with local packaging and occasional differences and localized cover art. One difference was they titled the first album "Clair de Lune" presumably because it's extremely high on the list of favorite classical pieces in Japan while "Snowflakes are Dancing" is a very loose translation from French of a lesser known work.

    In 2012 and signed to Denon since around 2000, he's retained the most familiar Moog sounds while addressing various noise and distortion issues the original has. When speaking with Tomita in 1999 he seemed pained that the engineering quality was so far from what he considers excellence. Ironically a couple months later BMG USA released a fairly heavy handed audiophile version without his input. On this version he appears to be cleaning up individual parts and recreating and augmenting others. There are 3 new tracks. A demonstration from the 70s called "Whistle and Chime" which is just that, an short analog synthesis demo of creating his whistle and chime sounds out of simple raw waveforms a step at a time. He adds 2 new Debussy tracks, the other Arabesque which seems to be his showcase of physical modelling synthesis to imitate orchestral sounds, in other words digital but no instrument samples. Also the longer "Nuages" which sounds paired down in arrangement to match the rest of the album's orchestration (leaving the new Arabesque very slightly sticking out though the changed track order minimizes it). He seems to be sort of summing up his 70s Moog synthesis combining with current tech. He doesn't give a gear list, a rarity for his classical synth albums. He does seem to sneak in a sample or two. I'd sum it up as a good compromise addressing his early effort's issues with hardly any spoiling what works all in all.

    Last years release was "The Tomita Planets Ultimate Edition" also SACD 4.0 with a stereo CD compatible layer. This one has a gear list which sheds light. He lists his Moog, does not list his Mellotron, he does list a bunch of 2010 era Roland synths and I'm sure that's what I'm hearing. He's retaining the Moog leads and his overall arrangement with tha substantial cuts and music box motif while many backing and pad sounds are newly recorded. Some material is tighter performance-wise other changes strike me as "why is he doing that?". For instance on Venus is a very realistic female solo voice. Is it Vocaloid? Is it his daughter who sings? The 1976 recording was said to be Tomita's own voice heavily treated to sound female. The new track is Hayabusa and Itokawa which represents that asteroids and commemorates Tomita's late space scientist friend Dr. Itokawa who's namesake asteroid was visited by the Japanese space probe Hayabusa just prior to the album. To me it functions as more a linking interlude than a full blown piece. In talking with Tomita in 1999 he explained that Holst was writing for a live orchestra. He feels his creation of synth albums required adaptation. For those unaware he wove in additional material in 1976 as well as making cuts in Uranus and Neptune amounting to around half of Holst's original music. He's clearly not changed his opinion since he's not changed major aspects of his arrangements in 2012 and mostly concentrated on the backing and articulation.

    Some years back Tomita released a rather rare DVD-A 4.1 of "The Tomita Planets 2003". It's on his current label Dennon and makes no clear references to the 1976 RCA release which was available as a Quad LP back in the day. I am puzzled by the needledrop comment here. Did I hear the same disc? My understanding is Steinberg hooked Tomita up with his own Nuendo setup for surround mixing. I'm sure he's using original recorded elements from his 1976 album, I'm not hearing anything obviously new other than the entire mix. I don't have the album on my player this moment but while I heard some flaws I did not hear evidence of a vinyl origin. I can see zero reason or credit referencing RCA. I don't see why Denon with Tomita signed to them would be using RCA owned vinyl for anything. I do hear mixing automation surely unavailable in 1976. I mean the point seems to be to make something new and releasable for his current label. It revamps an old popular work. It strikes me as it is a remix but is probably considered a remake legally. I was quite pleased with his sense of space and dynamic movement of the parts and no fidelity issue seemed a spoiler for me.

    "Tales of Genji" is Tomita's symphonic tour de force for the concert hall. It's written for a real orchestra augmented with synths running through (at least initially) Roland's RSS "3D" sound processing system and features traditional Japanese music soloists in addition. The first version out on Pioneer with a supposed pressing of 1000? was apparently some sort of contract misunderstanding. Apparently Tomita had thought Pioneer was doing a live performance video and not a CD. This bothered him since he was planning a studio recording of it with the London Philharmonic. He released what was for a time the definitive version on Denon in separate CD and later a 4.1 DVD-A edition (very hard to find). Ironically for Tomita the Pioneer edition seems better known at least outside Japan. In 2011 he released a substantially longer and new recording as part of his "Ultimate Edition". I've not had the notes translates as to where the new movements come from.

    "Oldest Living Quad Artist?" perhaps, Morton Subotnick is a year or so younger though he's been at it longer and really stoked he can do the work he wants to do in realtime live these days without overdubbed tracks and in surround. Waiting for the new releases though.

    Tomita's new releases? I've translated "Firebird" listed as forthcoming at one time though not always on the list and "Pictures at an Exhibition " but the next thing is open for debate. It seems to say compilation of Space Fantasy and Grand Canyon. "Space Fantasy" was an alternate title or suite from for "Cosmos" (USA name "Kosmos"). "Grand Canyon Suite" was an album where Tomita was transitioning to digital synths and while it has it's strong points, isn't ranked as his best by most accounts. My guess is perhaps he doesn't want to keep redoing old albums and conclude with whatever works well from the remaining ones, but I'm just guessing. It would be great of course if he does something brand new all through. He is adding new tracks so it's not like he can't.

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Technopop.info, welcome to QQ and many thanks for your valuable input. Do you have an idea how to get an official or unofficial English translation of the linear notes of Tomita SACD's?

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    Default Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    Hmm... still have not heard the SACD releases in Surround or gotten translations.

    Still don't "get" the needle drop comments on the 2003 DVD-A release, all I can guess is that Google shows torrents of a needledrop 1970s quad vinyl rip were circulating. Could be someone listening to those misrepresented to be the DVD-A. While I've not heard the ripped net files or the 1970s quad vinyl, when I played the DVD-A in 4.1, Tomita was doing spatialization decades beyond what was achievable in the 70s. That was sort the point of Tomita updating it the first time in 2003. Denon wanted a showcase DVD-A for their catalog not an "archival" reissue of another label's vinyl.

    A recent and related Tomita release is the stereo-only "Okaeri, Hayabusa" Original Soundtrack SOST-1004 releases 2.29.2012 on Shochiku (the movie Studio's label). The film seems to dramatize the story behind the space probe Hayabusa visiting the Itokawa asteroid. It includes a more orchestral arrangement of the new asteroid oriented track from The Ultimate Planets with trumpet leads. Some original music and theme variations are included as well as some reworkings of "Kosmos" and "Bermuda Triangle" 1970s recordings. Interestingly Tomita avoids any Holst music considering the film has a planetary journey and opts for new synth and synth with trumpet solo arrangements of "Tristan and Isolde" as well as Ives' "The Unanswered Question" with a new added sequencer motif that I'm sure purists won't take to. Interestingly enough that with swubstantial use of trumpet solos elsewhere, the soundtrack does not retain Ives' original solo trumpet instrumentation and keeps the Moog sound from "Kosmos" in the 70s. I'd say the most substantial piece is a nice long and very Tomita-esque rendition of the Libestod from Tristan followed by a second Tristan arrangement with trumpet solo. One downside is there are many abrupt fadeouts and a general film cue collection feel rather than album programming. I see Tomita is not album producer so that may say something. The sound quality is good though.

    Released 11.23.2011, another Tomita SACD release is "Planet Zero" which is subtitled "Freedommune Zero session with Dawn Chorus" which doesn't help at all to explain what it is. (Denon COGO-57, SACD 4.0, SACD stereo, CD Stereo) I think I've pieced together that it was going to be an outdoor summer concert with Tomita on tape and live trumpet solos, surround, etc.. But it was rained out and not rescheduled. The SACD reconstructs it. Unlike the soundtrack, Tomita is the album producer here. What I'm hearing is material from The Ultimate Planets as well as the "Welcome Back Hayabusa" OST arranged into a concert program. I can also hear some naturalistic reverb sort of "gluing" the sound for a somewhat smoother different feel than the albums. Or at least that's what I think I'm hearing. Having both the 2011 Planets and the Hayabusa soundtrack covers all of the material other than mix and edit differences.

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    Thumbs up Re: TOMITA Clair de Lune - Ultimate Edition (Snowflakes are Dancing) SACD 5.1

    TOMITA has actually released THREE NEW CLASSICAL SYNTHESIZER QUADROPHONIC SACDs!!

    They are CLAIR DE LUNE, THE PLANETS, and PLANET ZERO!!!

    These are like totally new albums with some new tracks. Plus many of the old tracks have new intros, new mixes, and truly awesome new sounds and new music.

    I had read that SACDs never caught on, and after buying some Classical ones I wasn’t surprised. Most SACDs don’t sound much better on my surround system than regular CDs do in my car. And why is there never anything in the rear channels on most?? But I am finally very glad to have a surround system that can play SACDs! These new TOMITA SACDs are TRUE QUADRAPHONIC with absolute 4-Channel Separation. They are ultra clean, with pure bright highs, and deep powerful bass. I listened on a Yamaha RX-A1000 Surround Receiver, Polk Tower fronts, Axiom bookshelf rears at ear height, and an OPPO blu-ray player through a top rated HDMI cable from Amazon.

    CLAIR DE LUNE 2012 (SACD 4.0 Surround Hybrid – says 5.1 while playing)
    Finally! A NEW TOMITA CD!! And this CD is superb. The original album had 10 tracks. This has 13. It adds the never before released “Second Arabesque” (which is delightful fun as it should be), plus “Whistle and Chime (The Art of Sound Creation)”, and “Nauges.” It is a completely new experience. “Footprints in the Snow” was moved to the middle, and several tracks feature new and different mixes with new sounds and a new opening. Although I was hoping for a different sounding “Nauges,” the new PLANETS makes up for that!!

    THE PLANETS 2011 (SACD 4.0 Surround Hybrid – says 5.1 while playing)
    The new SACD PLANETS album has a nice long new Introduction with Control Room, Spaceship Interior, and Pre-Launch Communications that knocked my socks off! And the new beginning of “Mars” is light years beyond the old one!! There’s even a brand new track called “Itokawa and Hayabusa” between “Jupiter” and “Saturn.” The whole new PLANETS album is just astounding. I couldn’t have been more surprised, amazed, and delighted.

    PLANET ZERO 2011 (SACD 4.0 Surround Hybrid – says 5.1 while playing)
    AKA: FREEDOMUNE ZERO Session with DAWN CHORUS
    I cannot recommend this one. It’s another PLANETS, but with the Pre-Launch, “Venus” and “Saturn” cut way short; “Itokawa and Hayabusa” added twice; and no “Uranus” or “Neptune.” “Liebestod” from “Tristan Und Isolde” was a nice idea, but has a lot of tape hiss; and there’s a new trumpet mixed over many parts that just doesn’t work.

    All three are Hybrid SACDs, so they will also play on regular CD players. AND CLAIR DE LUNE adds m4a files.

    There are two more QUADROPHONIC SACDs by TOMITA. But they are not Classical Music on Synthesizer performed by him...

    He wrote SYMPHONY IHATOV. But it was performed by Symphony Orchestra and Children's Choirs, and TOMITA himself did not perform in it at all.

    He also re-released TALE OF GENJI - Symphonic Symphony (SACD Hybrid 2 CDs)
    "Originally released in 2000, expanded version with Japanese traditional instruments, synthesizers and the Tokyo Symphony Orchestra, and Yoshiko Sakata's narration of the famous old Japanese tale, translated into modern Kyoto dialect. SACD 5.0ch Surround, SACD Stereo, CD Audio." But again, this is not TOMITA performing Classical Music by other composers on Synthesizer.
    Last edited by audiomixer8; 03-12-2013 at 07:02 AM. Reason: corrections

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