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Thread: Steely Dan Surround (?)

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    Junior Member kjs2447's Avatar
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    Default Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Besides Gaucho.

    I need more information on why my second favorite album of all time (Aja) is not being released in surround (besides the fact that the multis have been stolen). In other words why haven't they at least released the other tracks, or put more effort into their search for the multis?

    Secondly, what's this I hear about Pretzel Logic being released in surround? Has it? If so, what formats?

    This then brings up the question, have other albums been released in surround?

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    I can do anything! LizardKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    You can get Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go on DVD-A

    As well as Kamkiriad & Morph the Cat by Fagen...

    Also in Quad in QS & Q8:

    Can't Buy A Thrill
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...A-Thrill-QS-Q8

    Countdown to Ecstacy
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...-Ecstacy-QS-Q8

    & Pretzel Logic
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...el-Logic-QS-Q8

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    A friend of mine
    Downloaded AJA in a 5.1 format flac. I think
    I can only play it on my OPPO
    I don't know what has been done but it is
    a very good surround effect
    Ron

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    From Wiki:
    When DTS attempted to make a 5.1 version, it was discovered that the multitrack masters for both "Black Cow" and the title track were missing. For this same reason, a multichannel SACD version was cancelled by Universal Music. Donald Fagen has offered a $600 reward for the missing masters or any information that leads to their recovery.
    The divorce was my fault, I just couldn't get along with her boyfriends.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyandi View Post
    A friend of mine
    Downloaded AJA in a 5.1 format flac. I think
    I can only play it on my OPPO
    I don't know what has been done but it is
    a very good surround effect
    Ron
    I have A DTS CD up-mix which isn't bad either....

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    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    $600 reward? Did Fagen have to mortgage his house for that? If either of my kids are kidnapped, I'll offer a dollar, three eighty.

    Don't forget the Nightfly on DVD-A, SACD 5.1 and MVI DTS DVD.
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Yes, so I know about the later SD albums (Everything, Two Against), but I didn't know that Can't Buy A Thrill and Countdown were released.

    In regards to the Aja Surround, I have heard the story mentioned in the first post about the multis being stolen, but what is the 5.1 flac, or DTS CD? Where can you get those?



    EDIT:
    Where could one get these Quad mixes, and what equipment would I need to play them?

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    $600 reward? Did Fagen have to mortgage his house for that? If either of my kids are kidnapped, I'll offer a dollar, three eighty.

    Don't forget the Nightfly on DVD-A, SACD 5.1 and MVI DTS DVD.
    I agree! that's direct copy from wikipedia. It seems a bit cheap! I'll bet we can come up with a hell of a lot more here. Donald should realize that money talks. And what ever happened to security? Locking doors? It never says stolen, just missing. What does that mean? What do they do with a valuble tape? Leave it out for the cleaning lady?
    anything that is out there is a boot. People are doing thier own surround mixes now. There is one member who hates dan, the rest of us would run right out and get it if it was redone in HR.
    The divorce was my fault, I just couldn't get along with her boyfriends.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    $600? I'll bet Donald made at least that much in royalties from me alone. Are you crazy, are you high, or just an ordinary guy?
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    The multi-tracks were still in their possession when they made the making of Aja movie. The movie shows them at a mixing console bringing up channels that didn't make it into the final mix or channels that highlighted what they were discussing. They go into a short discussion about what a black cow is and where they used to buy them. Shoot those multis are probably still cued up on that machine wherever they filmed that movie. Surprised they haven't thought of that yet and found them. I'll bet a dollar that's where they left them.
    Best regards,
    George


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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    In the Making Of Aja Classic Albums documentary when they play Black Cow and Aja (the song) you'll notice they just play back the final mix, not isolated bits of the multitrack. The $600 thing came from the liner notes to the remastered Aja, and are a tongue-in-cheek joke - their liner notes are always slightly dismissive of the quality of their own music and putting a value of $300 (per song) on those two songs was sort of a joking way of showing how much they care about them.

    The thing with multitracks is that back then no one ever expected they'd need to go back to them, often they were just left at the studio where they were recorded or where the final master mix was done. Often when these studios went out of business or were sold, the tapes were just dumped as they are quite large in size; a 2" master tape in it's box is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3" x 12" x 12", and you would have at least one of these for a 24 track mix, or 2 for a 48 track mix, and so on. Just to give you an idea of how many tapes might be lying around, in an article I read, Jeff Porcaro related that they cut Gaucho (the song) almost 80 times, each on a new tape, before they got a rhythm track that they were happy with. So you can imagine after taking a year to record a whole album how much tape might be lying around the studio. There was a recent interview with one of the guys from Rush where they said they can't find the multitracks for a bunch of their albums because they left them at Trident studios in London when they'd finished doing the stereo mixes, and when Trident went out of business they (presumably) threw away all the tapes. This kind of thing is more common than any record label would admit.

    I also recall someone saying (possibly on the Steve Hoffman board) that there was someone at MCA records sometime back that was selling multitrack tapes to Japanese collectors with deep pockets, and that Steely Dan wasn't the only band with missing multitrack tapes, but I don't know if this story has any truth to it.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    I'm reminded of Lorne Michaels offering The Beatles something like $300 to regroup and play on SNL in the 1970s. "Think about it, talk it over, if you want to give Ringo a little less, that's up to you".

    OT - I hope the multi tracks still exist somewhere out there.
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    $600? I'll bet Donald made at least that much in royalties from me alone. Are you crazy, are you high, or just an ordinary guy?
    WIKIPEDIA!
    The divorce was my fault, I just couldn't get along with her boyfriends.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre4 View Post
    I'm reminded of Lorne Michaels offering The Beatles something like $300 to regroup and play on SNL in the 1970s. "Think about it, talk it over, if you want to give Ringo a little less, that's up to you".

    OT - I hope the multi tracks still exist somewhere out there.
    I remember that! they kept it up for weeks, making public offers on SNL.
    The divorce was my fault, I just couldn't get along with her boyfriends.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Absolutly has truth. I had a conversation in 1997 with Elliot Scheiner at the time they started looking for these tapes. He was doing mixes for DTS at the time. ABC had basically let the doors open and the Japanese who had all the dough in the 70s, bought lots of the ABC multis. They were in the process of putting adds in Billboard to see if they could get some to show up. This is the main reason you do not see hundreds of ABC titles on CD. You think they would have issued a ton of the Impulse material on CD, little exists in Stereo or multitrack.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    In the Making Of Aja Classic Albums documentary when they play Black Cow and Aja (the song) you'll notice they just play back the final mix, not isolated bits of the multitrack. The $600 thing came from the liner notes to the remastered Aja, and are a tongue-in-cheek joke - their liner notes are always slightly dismissive of the quality of their own music and putting a value of $300 (per song) on those two songs was sort of a joking way of showing how much they care about them.

    The thing with multitracks is that back then no one ever expected they'd need to go back to them, often they were just left at the studio where they were recorded or where the final master mix was done. Often when these studios went out of business or were sold, the tapes were just dumped as they are quite large in size; a 2" master tape in it's box is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3" x 12" x 12", and you would have at least one of these for a 24 track mix, or 2 for a 48 track mix, and so on. Just to give you an idea of how many tapes might be lying around, in an article I read, Jeff Porcaro related that they cut Gaucho (the song) almost 80 times, each on a new tape, before they got a rhythm track that they were happy with. So you can imagine after taking a year to record a whole album how much tape might be lying around the studio. There was a recent interview with one of the guys from Rush where they said they can't find the multitracks for a bunch of their albums because they left them at Trident studios in London when they'd finished doing the stereo mixes, and when Trident went out of business they (presumably) threw away all the tapes. This kind of thing is more common than any record label would admit.

    I also recall someone saying (possibly on the Steve Hoffman board) that there was someone at MCA records sometime back that was selling multitrack tapes to Japanese collectors with deep pockets, and that Steely Dan wasn't the only band with missing multitrack tapes, but I don't know if this story has any truth to it.
    The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    In the Making Of Aja Classic Albums documentary when they play Black Cow and Aja (the song) you'll notice they just play back the final mix, not isolated bits of the multitrack.
    After reading this I had to check the video and sure enough, during these two songs, Fagen and Becker just sit back with arms crossed and just discuss the tune. No futzing with the channels or faders on those two songs. Guess that's one location we can cross off the to-be-searched list. No multitracks at that studio.
    Best regards,
    George


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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Perhaps Fagen should offer Blowfish sushi as a reward.
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by leevitalone1 View Post
    I remember that! they kept it up for weeks, making public offers on SNL.
    I remember George showed up a couple weeks later to collect his share of what I remember as $2000. He wanted his $500.

    I also remember reading an interview with John (I think the Playboy interview) that he and Paul were watching that show live in John's NY apartment and they came close to impulsively just showing up that night at he studio to collect. That would have been one of the greatest TV moments ever.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    According to May Pang, John's girlfriend when he was estranged from Yoko, John and Paul WERE talking about a reunion. When Yoko reunited with John, Pang claims Yoko said "you don't need them." Pang made these remarks on a BBC special, which aired on A&E in the US. Upon reuniting with Yoko, John entered his house husband phase.

    How do you sleep at night?

    Quote Originally Posted by elroy View Post
    I remember George showed up a couple weeks later to collect his share of what I remember as $2000. He wanted his $500.

    I also remember reading an interview with John (I think the Playboy interview) that he and Paul were watching that show live in John's NY apartment and they came close to impulsively just showing up that night at he studio to collect. That would have been one of the greatest TV moments ever.
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    If the master from Aja did wind up in Japan it may be forever lost due to the Tsunami. Hope I'm wrong.
    Phil

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    I remember seeing those SNL shows and reading the John interview too. If those two guys had showed up we would all know about that famous broadcast.....
    Amen about Japan. Aside from the sad loss of life, if any collectors lived in the affected region, their tapes, decoders, and cd4 lps were washed out to sea... maybe they will drift onto the coast of Washington state.

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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Phillip
    there was a fellow who was buying a number of tapes from me, and he was located in the town that got hit very hard(can't remember now) remembered then, it was all so fresh. Anyway, he has never purchased since, maybe if i head down to the ocean (60 miles from here) i can get a few back this year! Wonder if he lost everything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Spinner View Post
    If the master from Aja did wind up in Japan it may be forever lost due to the Tsunami. Hope I'm wrong.
    Phil
    The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
    Bob Marley



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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    I got to meet May a couple times when she was married to Tony Visconti. I thought she was a very straightforward lady. Ya know how when ya meet folks ya can tell whether they blow shit all the time, she was not one of those, bright and enjoyable to chat, she would talk about anything you asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    According to May Pang, John's girlfriend when he was estranged from Yoko, John and Paul WERE talking about a reunion. When Yoko reunited with John, Pang claims Yoko said "you don't need them." Pang made these remarks on a BBC special, which aired on A&E in the US. Upon reuniting with Yoko, John entered his house husband phase.

    How do you sleep at night?
    The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by quadtrade View Post
    Phillip
    there was a fellow who was buying a number of tapes from me, and he was located in the town that got hit very hard(can't remember now) remembered then, it was all so fresh. Anyway, he has never purchased since, maybe if i head down to the ocean (60 miles from here) i can get a few back this year! Wonder if he lost everything?
    My 25 year old Nikon camera recently broke. The film will no longer wind back into the cannister. I took it to the camera shop for repair and he said it can't be. Any Nikon camera older than 10 years or so can no longer be repaired because all the parts were washed out to sea during the tsunami. Guess it's time to go digital.
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    Default Re: Steely Dan Surround (?)

    thinking on about the Steely Dan missing multi's situation, makes me wonder if Universal Records didn't miss a trick here back in the day.

    they had Gaucho and apparently Pretzel Logic at least in the bag remixed in 5.1, why not take the hits and highlights from the rest of the classic albums they had the rights to, get Elliot Scheiner remix them into 5.1 and compile a Greatest Hits compilation in 5.1..??

    Universal did just that with the likes of Marvin Gaye, Nick Drake, The Police, etc and released hits compilations in surround sound.

    in fact, UMG/Geffen have done just that right now, with the Walmart Lynyrd Skynyrd set.
    Elliot Scheiner remixed a handful of hits UMG held the multitracks for and stuck it on a DVD-A in a lovely little hits set with great extras, cheapo too.. and whaddyaknow it sold out. (well, you see, there's no market for this surround sound music.. don't make me laugh!).

    why not do the same as the Lynyrd DVDA hits set for Steely Dan? they already have a bigger following for surround, plus they are much more popular here in the UK than Lynyrd.

    that way UMG could have just omitted any songs they didn't hold the multi's for. simple as.

    Aja and Black Cow (great as they are and I love them) could be left off a Steely Dan hits set and I doubt anyone would grumble.

    so long as all the agreed big hits/familiar tunes, like "Reelin in the years", Rikki, Haitian Divorce, Peg, My Old School, Bodhisattva, Do it again, Doctor Wu, Deacon Blues.. that kind of thing.. were on it, it would have been amazing.

    at this point I have 6 different Steely Dan Hits compilation sets on CD alone!

    Greatest Hits (MCAD 6008),
    The Very Best Of Steely Dan (2 CDs) (MCLD 19147),
    A Decade of Steely Dan (MCAD 5570),
    Steely Dan Gold (Expanded Edition) (MCAD 10387),
    Remastered - The Best of Steely Dan (MCD 10967),
    Showbiz Kids - The Steely Dan Story 1972-1980 (Cat. No. 9811741).

    the track "Aja" is only on one of those six compilations and "Black Cow" is on two. the other 5 and 4 compilations, respectively, did good business and were deemed worthy hits sets without those two.

    just a case of record companies not thinking on their feet and making good business decisions.

    a bit like Peter Gabriel saying that his new Super Deluxe box won't have surround in it because they couldn't decide on a disc format for the 5.1, so they just didn't do it at all. Just plain DUMB. Oh and lazy. Oh and lacking imagination. Oh and with no thought or care for the fans.

    surely Universal Music could have produced just ONE hits compilation of the Dildo's in 5.1 surround, when they've issued at least 8 or 9 Hits CDs in the last 15 years or so. I only need six, so I've not bothered with the others! Ha!

    maybe somebody could suggest to Steven Wilson, if it might be his kind of thing, that he approach Universal with a view to doing the Steely Dan classics in 5.1..!?

    they would be the proverbial "hot cake", i reckon!
    "Surround Sound From The End of the World to Your Town..!!"
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    Surround Music Collection/Addiction growing daily..
    488 SACDs (410 MultiCh), 261 DVD-A,
    69 DualDiscs, 59 DTS CDs, 52 'Music Only' 5.1 DVD-Vs,
    36 BD-A, 23 "Surround Sound" CDs..

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