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View Poll Results: Rate the DVD-A/BDA of Emerson Lake and Palmer - EMERSON LAKE & PALMER

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  • 10: Great Surround, Great Fidelity, Great Content

    33 35.87%
  • 9:

    36 39.13%
  • 8:

    18 19.57%
  • 7:

    2 2.17%
  • 6:

    1 1.09%
  • 5:

    2 2.17%
  • 4:

    0 0%
  • 3:

    0 0%
  • 2:

    0 0%
  • 1: Poor Surround, Poor Fidelity, Poor Content

    0 0%
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Thread: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A/BDA]

  1. #101
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star skherbeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    I've owned a CD of this album for years (bought it for "Lucky Man"), but never really appreciated the rest of the album until listening to this surround mix... Now, sitting here in the low lights, my body sinking into a soft leather couch, my mind floating off to aural heaven, I find myself loving this music (well, most of it)! The sound quality is excellent (dynamic and full), the mix is discrete and at times playful (the beginning of "The Barbarian"), and the music is wonderful (especially "Pebble")... I just wish there was more of it! "Rave Up" demonstrates the band's musicianship but really isn't a very engaging song, and the one fate that we get "Apropos" has this annoying percussion instrument in the RF speaker that's attempting to bore a hole in my skull. Otherwise, the four remaining songs are bliss, and "Lucky Man" is a welcome alternate mix to the Kellog version ( I like them both). An 8.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Scored a new, sealed copy from eBay tonight for a VERY good price. Can't wait to hear both versions of Lucky Man, the other on BSS which is due for imminent delivery.

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  5. #103
    Senior Member tarkusnj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by sbrom View Post
    Can't wait to hear both versions of Lucky Man, the other on BSS which is due for imminent delivery.
    I have many surround discs that I listen to in my car. Tarkus, ELP s/t and Trilogy I can't even listen to...They are that bad and I am/was an ELP nut... The original BSS Lucky Man is SO much better.

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  7. #104
    organ of Corti junkie kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by tarkusnj View Post
    I have many surround discs that I listen to in my car. Tarkus, ELP s/t and Trilogy I can't even listen to...They are that bad and I am/was an ELP nut... The original BSS Lucky Man is SO much better.
    Well, then you are not a GENUINE ELP nut, you just like to complain!!!!

    a REAL nut would be actually incredibly happy that these mixes were made and released....

    ...

    Geez!!!!
    (rolling my eyes!)
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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  9. #105
    Senior Member tarkusnj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Well, then you are not a GENUINE ELP nut, you just like to complain!!!!

    a REAL nut would be actually incredibly happy that these mixes were made and released....

    ...

    Geez!!!!
    (rolling my eyes!)
    I was happy when it was announced that those albums were being released in surround but the mix and sound is just lame. I have an upmix of Tarkus that sounds better.
    Let's not argue, I am free to express an opinion just like anyone else There is no right or wrong opinion here

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  11. #106
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Being thankful is a virtue...I see you are not....
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
    -------------------------------------
    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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  13. #107
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Being thankful is a virtue...I see you are not....

    I'd wager TarkusNJ is a bigger "ELP nut" than you, or anyone else here.

    Your surround collection might even already have benefited from his devotion to the band. You maybe should be thankful to *him*.

    I agree with tark that the SW Tarkus mix is weak, the self-titled disappointing (because so many missing tracks), and that Jakko's ELP mixes are just messes. I listened to his 5.1 'Karn Evil 9, 3rd Impression' again last night and it's just hilariously, obviously, wrong*. That something that effed-up defective got released in a 'Deluxe' edition is a travesty.


    (*It's useful if you want to learn Greg Lake's bass part, though)**

    **(Though the center channel of the old 2000 BSS DVDA is even better for that).

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  15. #108
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    In Steve Wilson's own words, he was not particularly enamored with ELP which is why he withdrew from further remixing of their back catalog. His heart just wasn't in it. At least he somehow convinced once SACD centric SONY to release what he did remix in MLP DVD~A (as opposed to LOSSY DVD~V 5.1...a small victory, IMO).

    It's unlikely that ELP will ever be remixed again into 5.1 to everyone's satisfaction. Since I'm a casual and not rabid fan of ELP, I'm somewhat satisfied with the results and do not consider myself an expert as to what was done correctly .... or not!

    In contrast, Wilson's brilliant KING CRIMSON 5.1 remixes are stunning on every level because he obviously is a fan of their work and he also had the full cooperation and input from Robert Fripp.......a HUGE plus!

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  17. #109
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Unusual for this very friendly QQ club, there is much vitriol in this thread. As a relative newbie it makes me hesitant to post my review of this release.

    Please take the following as my personal take. To be cliche: YMMV
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Long ago a youthful version of me loved Trilogy, my favorite ELP album. Last year when I began my surround sojourn, Trilogy was one of the first titles I had to have. I loved it! With a couple minor exceptions the fresh surround perspective renewed my love of ELP.

    Now I find myself listening to a new (to me) Steven Wilson surround mix of ELP's self titled album.

    Searching the thesaurus for an applicable word, "sublime" keeps popping up. The musical feeling, character, and dynamics of this mix are amazing. Maybe I'm easily impressed? I hear strong but not overpowering bass, crystalline percussion, realistic keyboards, vocals close and powerful, a sense of open space. All pulled together in a brilliant mix that is appropriately discrete.

    Best played loud, the self-titled ELP listening experience brings a near constant smile to my face. Favorite track? Lucky Man, always has been in my top ten list. I'll vote 10.
    --------------------
    P.S. One caveat - my high frequency hearing is not what it used to be. Since the highs in this release sound perfect to me, I suspect some might find it overly bright. If this is the case a judicious treble cut should fix it.

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  19. #110
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Would love to pick up the ELP Sony DVD-A release but it's $73 + tax and shipping here in Canada. Not worth it to me yet as I have other media I'm looking to pickup.

    Screen Shot 2017-02-10 at 12.07.36 PM.jpg

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  21. #111
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel John View Post
    Would love to pick up the ELP Sony DVD-A release but it's $73 + tax and shipping here in Canada. Not worth it to me yet as I have other media I'm looking to pickup.
    Hang in there!

    I watched eBay for months looking for the right price on ELP. Finally there popped up a new sealed copy for $24 USD shipped from the UK. By far that was the lowest. They sometimes pop up in the $50 range.

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  23. #112
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by sbrom View Post
    Unusual for this very friendly QQ club, there is much vitriol in this thread. As a relative newbie it makes me hesitant to post my review of this release.
    ......
    I don't understand the "vitriol" either , which , if you pay attention , is always expressed by the same members....
    Your review is very welcome, as are all the "other" points of view, which, to me , do not contribute anything but bad vibes, but, hey, everyone is entitled to their, erm, "opinion"....

    I belong to the school of thought , that , the more versions , the merrier, even if they are flawed (like Jakko's ELP's BSS mix, which , to me, was NOT his fault) ; it's always a good thing to have a different point of view....
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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  25. #113
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    If the word 'disappointing' counts a 'vitriol' to some readers, I hope those readers have invested in a comfortable fainting couch if they plan to stay on the Internet.


    To my ears SW's mixes of the first ELP album are mostly fine; but the 5.1 release disappoints me greatly because a significant portion of the original album is missing. Which isn't SW's fault. (Whereas another disappointment with that release, his failure to even try to replicate the slowdown at the end of 'Knife Edge', *is*.)

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  27. #114
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    If the word 'disappointing' counts a 'vitriol' to some readers, I hope those readers have invested in a comfortable fainting couch if they plan to stay on the Internet......
    Or wear your flak jacket :-)

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  29. #115
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by sbrom View Post
    Unusual for this very friendly QQ club, there is much vitriol in this thread. As a relative newbie it makes me hesitant to post my review of this release.

    Please take the following as my personal take. To be cliche: YMMV
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Long ago a youthful version of me loved Trilogy, my favorite ELP album. Last year when I began my surround sojourn, Trilogy was one of the first titles I had to have. I loved it! With a couple minor exceptions the fresh surround perspective renewed my love of ELP.

    Now I find myself listening to a new (to me) Steven Wilson surround mix of ELP's self titled album.

    Searching the thesaurus for an applicable word, "sublime" keeps popping up. The musical feeling, character, and dynamics of this mix are amazing. Maybe I'm easily impressed? I hear strong but not overpowering bass, crystalline percussion, realistic keyboards, vocals close and powerful, a sense of open space. All pulled together in a brilliant mix that is appropriately discrete.

    Best played loud, the self-titled ELP listening experience brings a near constant smile to my face. Favorite track? Lucky Man, always has been in my top ten list. I'll vote 10.
    --------------------
    P.S. One caveat - my high frequency hearing is not what it used to be. Since the highs in this release sound perfect to me, I suspect some might find it overly bright. If this is the case a judicious treble cut should fix it.
    I likewise share your VERY enthusiastic review of ELP on DVD~A and was extremely gratified to have 3 ELP releases available in such sterling hi resolution sonics.

    NITPICKING, aside, this was also a relatively first for SONY to allow these to be released as Hi Res DVD~A 5.1 releases as the original intent was to release them as LOSSY DVD~Vs [DTS/Dolby Digital]. SONY only released in the SACD format and as these weren't intended to be SACDs, Steve Wilson intervened and suggested they be LOSSLESS [MLP 5.1]

    Also, more nitpicking aside, they were initially offered at extremely attractive prices making them eminently affordable.

    Since I'm not a rabid ELP fan but appreciate their solid prog rock credentials, I find nothing wrong at all with these superb remixing/masterings of EL & P.

    And to those who do find fault with these fine releases, I would suggest OUT!!!!!!!!! Would you rather NOT have them????

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  31. #116
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    If the word 'disappointing' counts a 'vitriol' to some readers, I hope those readers have invested in a comfortable fainting couch if they plan to stay on the Internet.


    To my ears SW's mixes of the first ELP album are mostly fine; but the 5.1 release disappoints me greatly because a significant portion of the original album is missing. Which isn't SW's fault. (Whereas another disappointment with that release, his failure to even try to replicate the slowdown at the end of 'Knife Edge', *is*.)
    Any kind tape speed up or slow down effect is not possible to accurately reproduce in the digital mixing domain, and Steven discovered this when remixing "Lizard" for King Crimson. The very end of the album speeds up as it fades out, but this was not possible to do for the remix.

    Personally, I like the new ending on "Knife-Edge" better than the original slowdown because now we got to hear how it really ended when they were originally recording it.




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  33. #117
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    [QUOTE=ssully;326503]If the word 'disappointing' counts a 'vitriol' to some readers, I hope those readers have invested in a comfortable fainting couch if they plan to stay on the Internet.

    Good Advice, ssully! As QQ Forum is probably one of THE most civilized forums on the internet thanks to the no~nonsense approach of its astute moderators [NO politics, NO religiosity and NO dating advice], it's always refreshing to behold your ALWAYS 'In YOUR FACE" approach even though I will NEVER agree with your rabid anti~Tweak [read: snake oil] and 16 bit is good enuf philosophy.

    You're just too hard core even for a liberal like me but I take everything you post with that titular GRAIN of SALT.

    At the very least....it makes life interesting!

    And everyone forgot to mention that Steve Wilson stopped remixing the ELP catalogue into 5.1 because he just didn't DIG THE BAND...but he digs the hell out of Disco Diva Donna Summer........so, go figure...probably because they BOTH work hard for the MONEY!

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Now I am listening to Judas Priest, Screaming For Vengeance. I am going to buy these two missing ELP's in my collection, ELP and Tarkus. When I get them I will turn them up and I already know they will be great, cuz I got a great machine.

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  36. #119
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    [QUOTE=4-earredwonder;326527]
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    If the word 'disappointing' counts a 'vitriol' to some readers, I hope those readers have invested in a comfortable fainting couch if they plan to stay on the Internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post

    Good Advice, ssully! As QQ Forum is probably one of THE most civilized forums on the internet thanks to the no~nonsense approach of its astute moderators [NO politics, NO religiosity and NO dating advice], it's always refreshing to behold your ALWAYS 'In YOUR FACE" approach even though I will NEVER agree with your rabid anti~Tweak [read: snake oil] and 16 bit is good enuf philosophy.

    You're just too hard core even for a liberal like me but I take everything you post with that titular GRAIN of SALT.

    At the very least....it makes life interesting!

    And everyone forgot to mention that Steve Wilson stopped remixing the ELP catalogue into 5.1 because he just didn't DIG THE BAND...but he digs the hell out of Disco Diva Donna Summer........so, go figure...probably because they BOTH work hard for the MONEY!
    My recollection is that Steven Wilson stopped after the first two remixes because 'I prefer to spend time with people I enjoy working with', or something to that effect.

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  38. #120
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    Any kind tape speed up or slow down effect is not possible to accurately reproduce in the digital mixing domain
    That can't be true, can it? The leaps and bounds in DAWs during this century has to make that possible, doesn't it?

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    Default Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike the Fish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    Any kind tape speed up or slow down effect is not possible to accurately reproduce in the digital mixing domain...
    That can't be true, can it? The leaps and bounds in DAWs during this century has to make that possible, doesn't it?
    Maybe that was true at the time for Lizard, which was mixed in the last decade, but it is certainly not true now. It is absolutely possible to accurately reproduce tape speed effects in most DAWs using plugins (often offline) or built-in features (possibly online). Source: I'm an audio engineer working mainly in Pro Tools.
    Last edited by JediJoker; 02-12-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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  41. #122
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    I used SADiE for a couple of years in the early noughties and using a jog/shuttle dial we could speed up and slow down, so it didn't seem a million miles away from it being able to be rendered on the edit decision list/timeline.

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  43. #123
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    I voted 9. Super great, so glad this last ELP, completed my collection. The vocals bugged me a little, I would have spread them out a little more, too much center.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by marpow View Post
    I voted 9. Super great, so glad this last ELP, completed my collection. The vocals bugged me a little, I would have spread them out a little more, too much center.
    Yeah, sometimes. Tick the center up a notch or two when you play this one and life is better perhaps.


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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by 4-earredwonder View Post
    In Steve Wilson's own words, he was not particularly enamored with ELP which is why he withdrew from further remixing of their back catalog. His heart just wasn't in it. At least he somehow convinced once SACD centric SONY to release what he did remix in MLP DVD~A (as opposed to LOSSY DVD~V 5.1...a small victory, IMO).

    It's unlikely that ELP will ever be remixed again into 5.1 to everyone's satisfaction. Since I'm a casual and not rabid fan of ELP, I'm somewhat satisfied with the results and do not consider myself an expert as to what was done correctly .... or not!

    In contrast, Wilson's brilliant KING CRIMSON 5.1 remixes are stunning on every level because he obviously is a fan of their work and he also had the full cooperation and input from Robert Fripp.......a HUGE plus!
    Where did you read that SW wasn't enamored of ELP? That's certainly not the case by way of his quotes in the liner notes to the ELP DVD-A. I believe I read that Wilson didn't appreciate comments made by Carl Palmer regarding his 5.1 work on the two early ELP DVDAs and maybe that has more to do why he didn't pursue any additional 5.1 work for them, but it would seem he grew up loving ELP.

    Bought this in 2012 and gave it a few listens, but it didn't seem to really jump out in any way at that time. I've since acquired a lot of other SW 70's surround mixes (Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Yes) and found that I really enjoyed them with the volume cranked to the aural sweet spot. So I revisited this ELP debut earlier today with that in mind and... damn, it sounded great!

    The mix is discrete and active with keyboards and vocals moving around the sonic landscape while the bass and drums are anchored in the fronts. Love the incredible detail now available to Carl's kit; the kick alone is so tangibly present it's almost mind boggling. Emerson's piano and hammond both sound superlative and SW does a great job with their placement around the listening area. I too own the old Kellogg BSS DVDA which I thought was the bomb at the time, but I think SW does a great job with the surround mix of Lucky Man here. It's absolutely sublime when the background vocals drop into the surrounds at the 1:10 mark!

    A solid 9 for me!

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