HiRez Poll Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A/BDA]

NOTE TO MEMBERSHIP:

This thread has been "trimmed". I moved all of the posts not related to rating the EMERSON LAKE & PALMER DVD-A to a different thread that everyone can post in forever!

Please keep posts in this thread to those that directly discuss the disc and content. This will make it easier for future members to read about the disc and not have to wade through pages of unrelated discussion which may be relavent now, but will be pointless in time.

Thanks for understanding. The moved posts are located here:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-A-Discussion-(Not-related-to-Poll-evaluation)

I am loving Tarkus and the ELP self titled set. The 5.1 and new stereo mix is superb, plus some nice extra takes. And all for around €12,50. A big Thank You to all those involved in these sets!

Before these sets came out, I only knew Lucky Man. I remember playing Lucky Man on a Top40 compilation LP multiple times, thrilled by the weird ending. For some reason I never got to buying the full album. So the rest of the album(s) is new to me anyway, and I am liking it.

I gave it a "10". Any release that actually excites me (before AND after purchase) these days is rare and welcomed beyond description. I love the clarity and separation. I love that I can actually hear what's going on in the middle of "Take A Pebble". As soon as I crank "The Barbarian" people smile with enjoyment.

No mix is ever going to be perfect to everyone and when it comes to surround you can multiply the opinions by at least 6, yes? It was a grand, ambitious and well executed undertaking by Steve Wilson. Remixing classic albums doesn't sound like an easy job to me and I'm extremely grateful it's even being attempted by this bold surround pioneer.

I still respect tarkusnj's opinion and wouldn't really try to oppose it. Die-hard fans know so many nuances and "ins and outs" of the old mixes that there is really no way to replicate. I can't replicate my mixes done on different days with the same equipment. One change of a sonic can change the whole character (or many little subtle characters) that speak to the tastes of the listener. When it comes to completely pleasing a passionate expert on the music- it's dangerous territory.

The loss of Tank and the Two Lost Fates is a heartbreaking dissapointment of course but, I'm glad it didn't prevent this wonderful release from existence. I don't find an upmix necessary and would rather do it myself anyway- with the 24bit versions provided.

Hello. While I would give the SW mix a 10, considering the the other elements of both the 1st album performance, sound quality of the 8 track, and general opinion after several listens, it's a 7 for me. Unless this was an all-time favorite of mine, I could never offer up a "10" rating. IMO, there are too many 10 ratings given out. I know 5.1 offerings are somewhat lean compared to "the old days", but I'm saving the 10's for more current offerings which have superior sound quality for the mixer to work with. Strictly my opinion! Thanks.

MarkytheM said:

The loss of Tank and the Two Lost Fates is a heartbreaking dissapointment of course but, I'm glad it didn't prevent this wonderful release from existence. I don't find an upmix necessary and would rather do it myself anyway- with the 24bit versions provided.

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You have 24bit versions of Tank, Clotho and Lachesis? Am I missing something?

patrick1 said:

IMO, there are too many 10 ratings given out. I know 5.1 offerings are somewhat lean compared to "the old days", but I'm saving the 10's for more current offerings which have superior sound quality for the mixer to work with. Strictly my opinion! Thanks.

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I agree and gave this an 8. With 2/3rds of The 3 Fates and all of Tank missing I don't see how I could personally give this a solid 10.

strat54 said:

You have 24bit versions of Tank, Clotho and Lachesis? Am I missing something?

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No, sorry. I had it confused with another recent Wilson-mixed box I purchased. I realized my mistake when I went to the studio later and saw the disc. I shtupid shometimes! I guess I have to change to a "9".

I have a very hard time voting on something that is so incomplete. There are problems throughout that greatly detract from the listening experience. I should say that my go to version of ELP is still my vinyl LP on Cotillion from 1971. By that measure the stereo and surround versions are a disappointment. However, Take a Pebble in surround is by far the most redeeming feature of the new mixes. This is so beautifully done with the sound of the dripping water, it's almost a spiritual experience. The surprisingly murky sounding Barbarian is not the overpowering bone crushing affair it is on the LP and Knife Edge is almost too painful to listen to with the EQ on the high end pushed to the max. The sound is reminiscent of a dental procedure. If this is a flat transfer than I suppose the blame lies with Mr. Lake, the original producer. However on the LP this problem seems to have been toned down sensibly by whomever mastered the original LP. The "Extended Outtro" just further detracts from the experience.
Side 2 without Tank is simply not ELP! Carl Palmer's muscular drum solo is terrific but taken out of context you're left wondering why and wherefore. And Lucky Man is a decidedly unlucky surround experience. The overdubbed vocals in the rear are so overpowering I have to jump out of my chair to hear the front channels. I think Mr. Wilson and Mr. Lake must have decided to make a different version of the song rather than remake a surround version of the original stereo mix. Lucky Man was so overplayed back in the day that I can kind of see why they might want to do something a bit different with it by spicing it up a bit. However from the vantage point of 40 years I think the original mix is perfect and cannot be improved upon as such. I do very much enjoy the new "Rave" with its jazz influenced style. It could have made a wonderfully juxtaposed B side to a single version of Lucky Man.

Many people are complaining that the first 2 fates and Tank aren't available on the DVD-Audio as 5.1 (up)mixes, but ask yourself this question: would the first 2 fates have really benefitted from an upmix? They sound to me like they could essentially be stereo recordings. Maybe the reason multitracks did not exist for those two parts was because they were only recorded with a stereo microphone pair.

rtbluray said:

Many people are complaining that the first 2 fates and Tank aren't available on the DVD-Audio as 5.1 (up)mixes, but ask yourself this question: would the first 2 fates have really benefitted from an upmix? They sound to me like they could essentially be stereo recordings. Maybe the reason multitracks did not exist for those two parts was because they were only recorded with a stereo microphone pair.

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That's not the point that most of us a trying to make. I would rather have them included as upmixes, regarless of being in stereo, simply for the sake of keeping the integrity of the original album running order and not jusitfying/rationalizing it as an "alternate album". As mentioned before, this was done for KC's In The Wake of Poseidon, which I appreciated, and it didn't bother me at all. IMO, this was a bad call... a VERY bad call.

rontoon said:

That's not the point that most of us a trying to make. I would rather have them included as upmixes, regarless of being in stereo, simply for the sake of keeping the integrity of the original album running order and not jusitfying/rationalizing it as an "alternate album". As mentioned before, this was done for KC's In The Wake of Poseidon, which I appreciated, and it didn't bother me at all. IMO, this was a bad call... a VERY bad call.

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The King Crimson ITWOP had an upmix of Devils Triangle, correct? And PenteoSurround processing was used. I think that cost them a few extra dollars to do that.
The ELP catalog was being remixed/remastered by Sony and they don't seem to do much in the surround realm. My guess is that a bunch of "suits" voted against any extra expenditure that would push the project over their allotted budget-only my theory. Sony releasing the ELP first two albums in DVD-Audio was a pleasant surprise. From what I hear, these releases are doing very well but Steven Wilson not being involved any further makes me wonder if Sony is going to do any more with the catalog. Razor & Tie have the catalog rights in the US and can do whatever they want, or so I hear.
Any releases of other ELP material NOT given surround treatment would not sell as most ELP fans have had enough of the stereo remasters from the other catalog owners. Even a hard core fan like me would not purchase them. R&T are aware of this and may take this ball and run with it. Time will tell.

MarkytheM said:

No, sorry. I had it confused with another recent Wilson-mixed box I purchased. I realized my mistake when I went to the studio later and saw the disc. I shtupid shometimes! I guess I have to change to a "9".

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No problem, I didn't think it was there. I wish we had gotten a hi-rez transfer of the original mixes with these releases

tarkusnj said:

The King Crimson ITWOP had an upmix of Devils Triangle, correct?

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Correct. In fact, I listened to ITWOP last night in high resolution 5.1 and the Devil's Triangle didn't bother me at all. However, I'm sure I would have been upset if it was omitted or replaced, even as the last track in the running order of the album. To have 2 tracks missing and replaced "internally" is disturbing. But I do like the 5.1 job that SW did with both ELP releases.

davie said:

I have a very hard time voting on something that is so incomplete. There are problems throughout that greatly detract from the listening experience. I should say that my go to version of ELP is still my vinyl LP on Cotillion from 1971. By that measure the stereo and surround versions are a disappointment.

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You can't say that here...you must agree with the majority. Like they say, if you have nothing good to say, keep it to yourself.

tarkusnj said:

You can't say that here...you must agree with the majority. Like they say, if you have nothing good to say, keep it to yourself.

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oh get over yourself - that comment serves no other purpose than to unnecessarily inflame others. No one took issue with whether or not you liked it - it was your tiresome self promotion as some sort of ELP guru. Your comment however almost gets it right. If you have nothing good to say, say it - concisely and without predudice, turn the page and move on.

You mean, say it once and then pipe down?

You have to admit that between the statistically unlikely number of 9s and 10s in polls -- it's like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average -- not to mention the overexcited 'mine's in the mail!' posts and "mine's here and I can't wait to listen to it!' posts and the 'lsitening now, this is just a fantastic mix!" posts , there is a cheerleader-ish aspect to this whole site, and negative reviews are distinctly in the minority (except for Silverline).

ssully said:

You mean, say it once and then pipe down?....

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I don't think that anyone here, for the most part, is averse to a civilized conversation regarding difference of opinion - it's when you annoint your opinion as more valid than others that it becomes less of a conversation and more of a tirade. But to a certain extent, IMO, yes - say what you have to say and move on. Extended back and forths on polls lead to irrelevant tangents - like this one .

ssully said:

You have to admit that between the statistically unlikely number of 9s and 10s in polls -- it's like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average -- not to mention the overexcited 'mine's in the mail!' posts and "mine's here and I can't wait to listen to it!' posts and the 'lsitening now, this is just a fantastic mix!" posts , there is a cheerleader-ish aspect to this whole site, and negative reviews are distinctly in the minority (except for Silverline).

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if people liked what they heard, why they should not express their excitement about,
either in messages or given points in poll? what is wrong with that?

Nothing's wrong with expressing an opinion, or even being overly passionate about it. Even repeating yourself, and of course, I'VE NEVER been guilty of repeating myself or reiterating, is OK. Let me repeat, it's OK. lol!!

All I take exception with are attacks and disrespect. They're wrong on so many levels.

sukothai said:

Yeah, I was put off at first by the missing tracks, but got over it quickly. A 10 from me.

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I thought I was over it. I finally couldn't take it anymore and did a QSD-1 up-mix of "Fates i & ii" and "Tank." Patched them into their rightful position of Mr Wilson's stellar 5.1 mix and moved "Rave Up" to the end. All is well in the world again.