HiRez Poll Emerson Lake & Palmer - EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER [DVD-A/BDA]

sukothai said:

I thought I was over it. I finally couldn't take it anymore and did a QSD-1 up-mix of "Fates i & ii" and "Tank." Patched them into their rightful position of Mr Wilson's stellar 5.1 mix and moved "Rave Up" to the end. All is well in the world again.

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Wish I knew how to do that...

rontoon said:

Wish I knew how to do that...

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Maybe some talented souls will post their versions online for others to appreciate.

rontoon said:

Wish I knew how to do that...

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Anybody can do this with a program to extract the DVD-Audio from the disk. I use "DVD Audio Extractor" which you can download and try out for 30 days free. You could then just stream the songs or if you want to burn a replacement disc, you need a DVD burner and "HD-Audio Solo Ultra" or "DVD-Audio Solo Standard" by Cirlinca to create the ISO image file to burn to disk.

As for the up-mixes, I used a Sansui QSD-1 in surround mode (because I'm lazy) but you could do it with the tools on surroundbyus.com or it could be as simple as creating a double stereo version of the songs with AudioMuxer. To make double stereo, you rip the stereo versions and then split them into mono wave files using AudioMuxer. Then make a copy of the mono wave files and rename them with the proper extensions (e.g.: Tank_L.wav, Tank_R.wav, Tank_Ls.wav and Tank_Rs.wav) and then merge the mono wave files back together using AudioMuxer again.

For me, it was not so important how good the up-mixes were. I was looking for album continuity; which truly surprised me by how much it increased my enjoyment of the album as a whole. Someone who has less memory of this album would probably not have the same need for continuity.

sukothai said:

Anybody can do this with a program to extract the DVD-Audio from the disk. I use "DVD Audio Extractor" which you can download and try out for 30 days free. You could then just stream the songs or if you want to burn a replacement disc, you need a DVD burner and "HD-Audio Solo Ultra" or "DVD-Audio Solo Standard" by Cirlinca to create the ISO image file to burn to disk.

As for the up-mixes, I used a Sansui QSD-1 in surround mode (because I'm lazy) but you could do it with the tools on surroundbyus.com or it could be as simple as creating a double stereo version of the songs with AudioMuxer. To make double stereo, you rip the stereo versions and then split them into mono wave files using AudioMuxer. Then make a copy of the mono wave files and rename them with the proper extensions (e.g.: Tank_L.wav, Tank_R.wav, Tank_Ls.wav and Tank_Rs.wav) and then merge the mono wave files back together using AudioMuxer again.

For me, it was not so important how good the up-mixes were. I was looking for album continuity; which truly surprised me by how much it increased my enjoyment of the album as a whole. Someone who has less memory of this album would probably not have the same need for continuity.

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This is where my almost total previous disregard for this LP (although I got it way back in '84 , in , of all places; MEXICO -and yes, it's a Mexican pressing m which doesn't sound bad , but it has this weird "blurb" in the back cover with photos of all three of them instead of the REAL back cover with Ed Cassiddy's head) comes to the rescue...I really don't care or know what I'm missing...if anything, I'd rip my LP and reauthor it with the missing pieces....

A few years ago, I got to see Ed Cassidy's head up close and converse with it. Like many of you, I also got to see a spinning keyboard with Keith Emerson's head (and body) hanging on for dear life.

The back cover of my first copy of ELP was black, perhaps because it was an Ampex prerecorded cassette.

kap'n krunch said:

...instead of the REAL back cover with Ed Cassiddy's head...

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kap'n krunch said:

This is where my almost total previous disregard for this LP (although I got it way back in '84...) I really don't care or know what I'm missing...

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I know what you are saying. When I first got this, I was so enthused and mesmerized by Steve Wilson's mixes, that I didn't care much that parts were not there. But I got this in 1972 (along with Trilogy) and after I while, my "audio-memory" started to crave the missing Fates and Tank in their proper place. We didn't do mix-tapes back then; so every time I listened to this, it was the entire album from start to finish and I was really amazed at how satisfying it was to hear the missing Fates and Tank in their proper order.

As always, to each his own. I'm not complaining and this is still an easy 10 from me even without Fates i & ii and Tank because I'm so happy to have what is there. I'm just saying if you've got something nagging you to have these pieces of the album to make it complete, it is certainly easy enough to do.

I've been doing mix reels since 1964, and mix cassettes since 1969.

Getting way off topic here, but I knew as I was typing that sentence I was speaking to the wrong crowd for generalities like "We didn't do mix tapes back then."

Do we have a thread for "When did you create your first mix tape?" We'd need one for stereo and one for surround.

So do it. My first surround mix tape was 1973.

sukothai said:

Getting way off topic here, but I knew as I was typing that sentence I was speaking to the wrong crowd for generalities like "We didn't do mix tapes back then."

Do we have a thread for "When did you create your first mix tape?" We'd need one for stereo and one for surround.

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14.88 at Amazon US.

I listened to the new-mix, hi-res stereo version last night after listening to the 5.1 mix. I was very surprised and pleased at the great amount of depth of the new stereo mix. With my head facing forward, the presentation seemed to spread out along the side walls of the room. A few times I caught myself turning sideways to make sure nothing was actually coming out of the surrounds.

Then I enhanced it with Logic 7 which produced a wonderful pseudo surround sound presentation that helped to emphasize the background vocals on Lucky Man. More kudos to Steven Wilson for putting so much effort into the new stereo mix as well as the 5.1. I'll have to go back to some of his other productions as well and sample the new-mix stereo tracks.

A very powerful and impressive re-mix. Shame about the missing content but I can't mark it down for that. A few (minor) rough edges here and there, hence the nine, but overall the surround mix blew me away. Very impressive, particularly Knife Edge, Pebble and Lucky Man.

I would have preferred an upmix for the missing Side 2 tracks (as was done with Crimson's 'Poseiden'). It's a shame to lose the LP's continuity. The added 'Rave Up' is a poor substitute. Still, it's great to have the rest mixed by SW. The extended 'Knife's Edge' came as a surprise to me. It's a luxury to now have 2 different (and both excellent) 5.1 mixes of 'Lucky Man'.

9

Finally got around to hearing this release.

In short, Steve Wilson's 5.1 remixes are excellent and get 10/10!
I give the release 5/10 due to nearly half the album missing though. <- Give that serious consideration with the price tag being $100 or more!!

Not only are the multitracks missing for over half of side 2, the entire original stereo mix has apparently been lost as well!
Really a kick in the gut on that one. Almost half of this album is simply lost forever.

The CD master they included for the original mix is not a good copy either. Not sure how much was due to the CD format (16 bit) or possibly they only had not so good safety copies of the tape available when that was made. Not sure what the story is or when that was all lost. Nothing in the liner notes on this.

Couldn't get the tape slowdown thing right digitally (03 Knife Edge)? Really? Oh well...

But the 5.1 remixes of what's left ARE really good!
A bittersweet experience overall. (I was able to roll my eyes and chuckle at the Hawkwind guys for losing multitracks for 2 songs and then the stereo masters for ALL the bonus track material - they had to use previous CD transfers - on the Warriors album. This here is next level disappointment!)

And the vinyl release stays very relevant for this one!

It would have been a nice touch to at least do a pro vinyl transfer from an original pressing at 24/96 and include that for the original mix. That would have earned an 8/10.

I renumbered the bonus tracks to the end of the list after ripping to FLAC files. Having them substituted for the missing tracks is a much worse experience than just acknowledging the tracks missing. Especially the loose jam (Rave Up) in place of Tank!

jimfisheye said:

Not only are the multitracks missing for over half of side 2, the entire original stereo mix has apparently been lost as well!

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Not sure where you got this idea.

Eddie Offord's original 2ch master tapes still exist and have been used on several CD issues. AFAIK this 'super deluxe' version uses the most recent Shout Factory remastering of them by Andy Pearce, which is pretty well thought of...though an added credit is given on this 'super deluxe' version to Matt Wortham, so maybe *further* tweaking was done to it.

What's missing are the multitrack tapes for several of the tracks...that's why they could not be remixed into either a new stereo mix, or a 5.1 version.

What is forgotten about these first two ELP reissues is the fact that these were originally supposed to be DVD-V releases instead of DVD-A, so chances are, high-res masters of the original mixes were never prepared, and that's why they were only included on the CD.
That's also why Steven Wilson's remixes were 48 kHz as opposed to 96 kHz as that's the sampling rate that the multitrack tapes were transferred at.

rtbluray said:

What is forgotten about these first two ELP reissues is the fact that these were originally supposed to be DVD-V releases instead of DVD-A, so chances are, high-res masters of the original mixes were never prepared, and that's why they were only included on the CD.
That's also why Steven Wilson's remixes were 48 kHz as opposed to 96 kHz as that's the sampling rate that the multitrack tapes were transferred at.

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Actually they were done at a time when Steven worked predominently in 48kHz (before 2011-2012 I think -see Caravan, PT, etc...). On DVD-V, as you know, you can always put 96kHz PCM and 24/96 DTS.

Plan9 said:

Actually they were done at a time when Steven worked predominently in 48kHz (before 2011-2012 I think -see Caravan, PT, etc...). On DVD-V, as you know, you can always put 96kHz PCM and 24/96 DTS.

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This could get OT very quick, but I have to ask this:
What's the real sample rate for SW's remixes for the first batch of King Crimson reissues?
"Lizard" and "In the Court of the Crimson King" has the surround mix at 48 kHz, but the stereo mix (as MLP) is at 96 kHz.
So was the surround mix downsampled, or was the stereo mix upsampled for the DVDA release?

rtbluray said:

This could get OT very quick, but I have to ask this:
What's the real sample rate for SW's remixes for the first batch of King Crimson reissues?
"Lizard" and "In the Court of the Crimson King" has the surround mix at 48 kHz, but the stereo mix (as MLP) is at 96 kHz.
So was the surround mix downsampled, or was the stereo mix upsampled for the DVDA release?

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The sample rate of the mixes is 48kHz, but they were mastered in analog by Simon Heyworth and recaptured at 96kHz...

Plan9 said:

The sample rate of the mixes is 48kHz, but they were mastered in analog by Simon Heyworth and recaptured at 96kHz...

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Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation!