View Poll Results: Rate the DVD-A of Emerson Lake and Palmer - TARKUS

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Thread: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

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    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Please post your thoughts and comments on this new release DVD-A from Sony (and Razor and Tie in the US) featuring the new 5.1 mix from Steven Wilson.


    Tarkus Back 700.jpg
    Tarkus Disc 700.jpg
    Tarkus Front 700.jpg
    :-jon

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Here is what's on the discs, with kind thanks to Sony for the advance info:

    Tarkus Disc Contents.jpg
    :-jon

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    I just got this one (and the other one) in the mail today... listened to it once and I must say I'm ecstatic. Which doesn't happen often anymore at my age.

    Tarkus was one of the first albums I bought when I was 18 (my previous purchases being the Beatles' White Album, We're Only In It For The Money by the Mothers Of Invention, Elegy by the Nice and In The Court Of The Crimson King by you know who). I remember mostly playing side 1, Tarkus, which I know by heart, in fact I knew it so well that I used to play it in my mind if I had to wait somewhere for 20 minutes.

    The Tarkus suite sounds fantastic in the new Steven Wilson surround mix, which is, of course, spot-on. And while I expected the rest of the album to be so-so, it's much better than that, in fact it's excellent. Jeremy Bender is fun, Bitches Crystal rocks, the suite The Only Way/Infinite Space is as good as is gets, and A Time And A Place is another scorcher. And of course all of these songs sound fantastic in 5.1.

    I must say I agree with Steven that Are You Ready Eddy is (my words, not his) filler material, and that the very enjoyable Greg Lake ballad (good acoustic and electric guitar parts!) Oh My Father would have been a much better closer for the album.

    The stereo mix has a rather forgettable Unknown Ballad (sung by Keith Emerson) and a not too different alternate take of Mass as bonus tracks.

    All in all a 9.5 for content and a 10 for the mix... oh well, let's make that an even 10!

    So did anyone else find the error in the liner notes? (Error as in: not updated after the track change made in the end.)

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    This is my favorite of the two releases. Even though I have always found Jeremy Bender to be a waste, the sheer power of the rest of the album carries the day. Steven Wilson's mix is perfect in teasing out elements I've never heard before while still maintaining the overall strength and integrity of these songs. I give this a 10. Thanks to Neil, Steven Wilson, and all who made this possible.

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    Masters of Fine Listening rtbluray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by stormchaser View Post
    This is my favorite of the two releases. Even though I have always found Jeremy Bender to be a waste, the sheer power of the rest of the album carries the day. Steven Wilson's mix is perfect in teasing out elements I've never heard before while still maintaining the overall strength and integrity of these songs. I give this a 10. Thanks to Neil, Steven Wilson, and all who made this possible.
    I actually really like the new surround and stereo mixes of Jeremy Bender, but no amount of great remixing can save "Are You Ready, Eddy?"

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    I've had all the original ELP LPs and starting collecting when Brain Salad Surgery was new. Tarkus is still one of my favorite albums of theirs and w/o a doubt my favorite track. I can't wait until I get my copy from Amazon (along with their s/t release).

    Forgive me if this is frowned upon here but I get so inspired when I watch Rachel Flowers' performance of this piece. Amazing!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvkj5Vi0

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    A perfect 10.
    Bliss...

    Any plans for Trilogy?

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    I was really looking forward to listening to this one, I love this album. I started it up, and the song faded in, and wow, I'm surrounded. Awesome.

    But then it hit me.......where's the low range? There is lower frequencies on this album, right? I thought I remembered them....

    Just to make sure I wasn't losing my hearing, I swiched to my MFSL CD. Ah yes, there they are.

    Like the ELP mix, something is missing, and it leaves me disappointed. I suppose I'll be extracting and remastering both discs this weekend.

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfQuad View Post
    I was really looking forward to listening to this one, I love this album. I started it up, and the song faded in, and wow, I'm surrounded. Awesome.

    But then it hit me.......where's the low range? There is lower frequencies on this album, right? I thought I remembered them....

    Just to make sure I wasn't losing my hearing, I swiched to my MFSL CD. Ah yes, there they are.

    Like the ELP mix, something is missing, and it leaves me disappointed. I suppose I'll be extracting and remastering both discs this weekend.
    Hmmm . weird...
    since everybody's hearing is different, I'd say that it's the HUUUUGE headroom these mixes have.
    To be honest , these are one of the DVD-A with the most headroom I have heard, since Steve does not compress any of his mixes-and it especially shows on this one: also, I bet that it was recorded within some "normal " levels, not pushing it into the red, and Greg was always a great producer and Eddy , even a better one(and recording engineer).
    Also , as with the S/T one, the tape is in excellent condition, showing almost no signs of tape degradation-which , for 40+ year old tapes , is a miracle (it was probably Scotch tape, which I've read is the one that holds up better....)

    Of course , this quality makes them VERY "crankeable",
    and,
    since I do not have a sub (my neighbors would kill me, I live in a poorly -see Spanish modern- constructed apt building) and my JBLs barely make it down to 30 Hz , I still get some very decent response from any other material...

    I'm sure they compressed the ELP BSS DVD-A (only a bit, though), which tends to bring out the bass and lower mids.

    Yes, it sounds "brighter" than most other ones , but that's how it was originally ( I know cause I got some VERY minty early UK Island pressings of their stuff).
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    I gave this one a 10. The fidelity and mix are incredible. It does sound a little bright when compared to the ELP album, but I suspect the same is true of the original releases. Forgive my ignorance, but is this the difference between remixing and remastering? If listeners feel certain frequencies are lacking, can't they make adjustments to their system? I would rather do that than have someone else remaster it to his or her taste.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfQuad View Post
    I was really looking forward to listening to this one, I love this album. I started it up, and the song faded in, and wow, I'm surrounded. Awesome.

    But then it hit me.......where's the low range? There is lower frequencies on this album, right? I thought I remembered them....

    Just to make sure I wasn't losing my hearing, I swiched to my MFSL CD. Ah yes, there they are.

    Like the ELP mix, something is missing, and it leaves me disappointed. I suppose I'll be extracting and remastering both discs this weekend.
    I agree with AOQ. Perfect in all other respects but lacks some bottom end. I can dial it in, but wish I did not have to do so, and I have no shortage of woofer. I suppose it is true to the original, and it is crystal clear with an amazing mix, but without eq it lacks a visceral punch. Because it is so good otherwise - a 9. A reluctant 9. I love ELP by the way, and this album is my 2nd favorite by them.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    This is a 10 for me also..... I wasn't expecting any less...

    Great to hear the detail being brought out in the 5.1....it does sound a smigden thin but for me its fine...

    One (very very) minor gripe.. The ELP name while playing is using the name graphics from the first album - it doesn't look quite right to me... I'd have preferred it without it..

    Man - the packaging is "FAAAAT" I need more space on my shelves.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Just listened to the title track now for the first time, in 5.1...it sounds very different. Actually sounds more balanced and less processed than the original (offord?) mix...but somehow less exciting at some crucial points as well, particiularly as regards the crunch of KE's Hammond sound. Perhaps this means less compression on this mix than the original mixes. Not gonna vote yet until I've gotten used to the new approach...

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Hmmm . weird...
    since everybody's hearing is different, I'd say that it's the HUUUUGE headroom these mixes have.
    To be honest , these are one of the DVD-A with the most headroom I have heard, since Steve does not compress any of his mixes-and it especially shows on this one: also, I bet that it was recorded within some "normal " levels, not pushing it into the red, and Greg was always a great producer and Eddy , even a better one(and recording engineer).
    Offord was actually pretty well known for pushing his mixes 'into the red'...analog red, of course.




    I'm sure they compressed the ELP BSS DVD-A (only a bit, though), which tends to bring out the bass and lower mids.

    Not much. The bass isolated more though, on the Rhino BSS.



    Yes, it sounds "brighter" than most other ones , but that's how it was originally ( I know cause I got some VERY minty early UK Island pressings of their stuff).
    The Tarkus DVDA 5.1 does not sound brighter to me...if anything, perhaps less bright than the original mix...though that of course has many remasterings to choose from, some brighter than others.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    First let me say that i'm flabbergasred to find this forum. I thought I was the only sacd/dvd audio nut left. Hallelujia! I think I can help clear up this lack of bass deal. I am currently on my third univesal player (Pioneer DV 79), but my first unit was a marantz. These guys had no bass management and HAD to be connected via analog RCA jacks. I think if you invested in a newer player with firewire and/or hdmi out (oppo, etc) you would rediscover your missing lower octaves. I have an old dvd-a BSG that is probably my favorite (of more than 200) sacd/dvd-a's, so I can't wait to get my greedy little hands on these two new ELP releases. Just got the Aqualung Blue Ray and I have to admit 7.1 DTSMaster sounds outrageous (especially with four deftech subs)

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    .but somehow less exciting at some crucial points as well, particiularly as regards the crunch of KE's Hammond sound.
    A friend of mine was a bit more descriptive, he said to me "THEY CUT THE BALLS OFF KEITH'S HAMMOND!!"
    I noticed it the first listen I gave to Tarkus. Also, the low end and bass lacks punch.

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    (RANT WARNING)
    Wah , wah wah, bitch , bitch , bitch ,mama....
    I can't seem to find ANY fault in these two releases.
    Excellent mixes...
    headroom galore, plenty of bass on the mixes..


    "oh, it doesn't have the balls or bass that the original mixes did"
    Well,
    THEY ARE NOT THE ORIGINAL MIXES!!!!!!!
    OF COURSE IT'S NOT GONNA SOUND THE SAME!!!!
    YOU LIKE THE ORIGINAL MIXES BETTER ???? WELL, PLAY THEM INSTEAD AND SELL THE DVD-As!!!!!!

    will you get this fact in between your ears, guys????

    These were mixes to play on a DVD-A with its corresponding s/n ratio, NOT AN LP or a Q8 or even a CD!!!!
    D
    V
    D
    AUDIO!!!!!!

    and as for "Mr. I'd say anything to contradict you", whatever rocks your boat, man, were you there in the sessions or see the transfer levels? I DON'T THINK SO.....

    stop wasting your time, in yo face...go pick on someone else!
    (End of rant)

    Enjoying these immensely...
    As I said, a labor of love and, compared to the "Gentle Giant" rereleases from the Quad tapes , that had a LOT of tape degradation and distortion, these are clean and very pure...

    My ear problems of late have degraded my hearing and I can't really tell the difference between 96 and 48 anymore...maybe I'll recover...
    (Hint, DO NOT PUSH while cleaning your ears with Qtips even if you find a lot of old ear wax-got myself a vertigo problem which has not gone away for the last 3 weeks...and more tinnitus)
    Last edited by kap'n krunch; 09-10-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Have to agree with Mr krunch The DVDA of both ELP and Tarkus have plenty of everthing played through my Pioneer DV 600 av stacks of bass clarity and punch and bigger balls than King Kongs dad.
    What I would like to know is when the remaining albums Trilogy BSS WBMFTTSTNE and Pictures are set for the same treatment, I thought the process was complete any clarity on this folks.

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  22. #19
    Surrounded by music HDJK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Tarkus in surround is great! I can't believe that Sony gave us these 3 disc sets for such a low price. Thanks :-))

    A solid 9!

    http://www.surroundsoundmusic.com/bl...luxe-surround/
    www.surroundsoundmusic.com

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by fluid View Post
    Have to agree with Mr krunch The DVDA of both ELP and Tarkus have plenty of everthing played through my Pioneer DV 600 av stacks of bass clarity and punch and bigger balls than King Kongs dad.
    What I would like to know is when the remaining albums Trilogy BSS WBMFTTSTNE and Pictures are set for the same treatment, I thought the process was complete any clarity on this folks.
    So far, Steven Wilson has not been asked to remix any more ELP albums.

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    at your sevice ma'am kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    BTW, there is no hint of tape hiss on either of them!!!

    How'd he do it?
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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pockets17red View Post
    So far, Steven Wilson has not been asked to remix any more ELP albums.
    Thank you Sir for the info

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    (RANT WARNING)
    Wah , wah wah, bitch , bitch , bitch ,mama....
    I can't seem to find ANY fault in these two releases.
    Excellent mixes...
    headroom galore, plenty of bass on the mixes..
    I'm not having any problem with bass on the remixes either. Not sure what's causing that criticism. And my only reservation so far is specifically with "Tarkus", mainly with the greatly altered sound of the keyboards, compared to the old mix.

    "oh, it doesn't have the balls or bass that the original mixes did"
    Well,
    THEY ARE NOT THE ORIGINAL MIXES!!!!!!!
    OF COURSE IT'S NOT GONNA SOUND THE SAME!!!!
    I don't think anyone expects a remix to sound exactly the same as the original mix. What it really comes down to is what differences are improvements, and what are not -- a subjective call. SW's stated goal was along the lines of, keep the spirit of the original mix but add clarity and detail. People decide for themseves how well he achieved that. Nota bene that compression can give the impression of added 'punch' and 'clarity' and
    'detail' -- a loudness effect. So can adjusting EQ.


    These were mixes to play on a DVD-A with its corresponding s/n ratio, NOT AN LP or a Q8 or even a CD!!!!
    D
    V
    D
    AUDIO!!!!!!
    So? Differences in a remix far exceed any audible differences between a CD and DVD-A version due to format. No one is complaining about S/N ratios as far as I can see. If you mean use of less compression than on the LP mixes -- CD has more dynamic range than LP too. SW's new mix is unlikely to sound any different rendered as Redbook. Redbook has enough effective dynamic range to handle any tape-sourced audio.

    Deciding NOT to use compression in a new mix, if it was used when creating the original 2-channel mix, is going to change the sound of the new mix compared to the old, all by itself. That's in addition to changes in EQ.

    I'd be curious to know what SW thinks Offord did during the original tracking and mixdown, to get his sound for Tarkus. Compression added to individual tracks during mixdown? Variable compression across the length of the track?

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Tarkus sounds nice.

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    Default Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A]

    Still not thrilled with some of the mixing choices on this...especially the way the organ is pushed into the surrounds at low level, in Eruption, when (to me) it should leap out at you from front channels. I'd like the lead keyboard to be in the front channels more in general. And Emerson's Hammond doesn't really sound balls-out and 'clicky' until the solo in 'Mass'.

    and there's these quibbles
    -- the edits in 'Manticore', where the sound alternates from wet to dry, were always glaring, but they sound even more artificial now.
    -- I miss the way Offord highlighted Lake's bass riff at 8:28 -- here, it's kind of meh.

    I'm actually preferring the new 2 channel remix, played back using DPLII, to the discrete 5.1 mix.

    No complaints about the bass in either mix. Plenty of low end rumble there.

    As Tarkus (the track ) is really the only one I care much about, I'll probably give this DVDA a score somewhere in the middle range.

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