The Big Scary Star Wars Question.

I'm not sure this is the right place to ask this. I'm not sure there even is a right place to ask this. But it pertains to surround sound, but in a movie. A movie movie. Star Wars. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, George Lucas decided to make so many revisions to a film that any memory of the original drafts would completely dissapear.

I want to know if there is a version that has no revisions to the visual effects, continuity and the sound track. The sound track is what I am focusing on for this thread though.

Keep in mind that I'm not really a Star Wars fan. I'm actually a trekkie. I just want to see the original movies AS-IS (or AS-WAS) Was not was?

My research thus far thanks to this Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases

I discovered that this may be my best bet at seeing and hearing this in original form:

FROM WIKI-"2006 Star Wars Trilogy DVD Box Set
The 2006 re-release of the Trilogy labeled as "Limited Edition" versions was essentially the "Special Edition" versions released in the 2004 Box Set. This release was most noted for the inclusion of a Bonus disc for each movie. The bonus disc for each movie was advertised as the "Original Theatrical" Versions.[4] To keep it as true as possible even the audio was not up-mixed, including only a 2.0 (stereo) surround. To add to the keepsake was the inclusion of a Collector's Tin as the box set case.[5"


But one must also keep in mind these notes about the soundtrack of the original release:

FROM WIKI-"The film was initially released in 70mm 6-track audio (in today's terms, a 4.2 track as opposed to a 5.1 track). The wider 35mm release had a 2-track Dolby Stereo matrixed 4-channel optical soundtrack. A mono mix was released in June 1977 for exhibition in cinemas with no Dolby Stereo support, which contains some changes from the stereo version (some of which were incorporated into subsequent releases if noted):"

My next question, is that on the 2.0 soundtrack, that comes on the theatrical release DVDs, is that the matrixed 4.0 audio?

And that only seems to cover the first movie. What about the audio of the rest?

Also what sort of matrix decoder would decode the sound properly into 4.0 if it has in fact made it to this 2.0 dvd?

I just want to see and hear these movies as close to the theatrical release as possible. I'm starting to wonder if it is at all possible.

Hey Q8, yep, the 2006 DVDs are as close as you're gonna get. Video and sound was taken from the same masters they used for the 1993 "Definitive Collection" laserdisc set. It looks pretty decent, all things considered. It also sounds pretty good, with lots of nice rear activity. But if it's 4.2, 3.0, 4.0, I don't know. Either way, get those DVDs if you still can, they're all you're gonna get out of Lucas when it comes to the unaltered versions.

As far as I know, there is no way to see the original '77 cut of STAR WARS today. And the sound--along with whatever edits/snips/ads Mr. Lucas has done to subsequent versions--has also changed, too. Not only added or altered (sweetened) sound effects, but also repairs of flubs or omissions, etc., have altered the sonic as well as visual landscape of that movie since its inception. It's *possible* that an early VHS/Beta edition of the film *might* be the original print but, even then, it would be pan'n'scan, not widescreen. Sound? Not sure, but should be Dolby Surround in any early edition, including CED videodisc or laser, I should think. But who knows for sure? Lucas' trilogy has been frigged with so much since the original film releases that the head swims....

ED

Some part of me wishes I could get one of the original theater films, the one with the 6-track audio, and get someone with the capability to retrieve the audio from it. Maybe the video too.

Lucasfilm has chopped alot of the original film reels up into individual cells and have encased them in plastic, serial numbered them and sold them. I happen to have one, I'm pretty sure its one of the 70mm (I didnt pay much for it). I wonder if this was part of George Lucas's plan. To make it so you can't easily find one of the Theater reels and recover the original audio/video. It's a way to destroy them, and make more money at the same time.

Ed Bishop said:

It's *possible* that an early VHS/Beta edition of the film *might* be the original print but, even then, it would be pan'n'scan, not widescreen. Sound? Not sure, but should be Dolby Surround in any early edition, including CED videodisc or laser, I should think.
ED

Click to expand...

It seems from what research I've done that the first home release was the 1981 VHS/BETA and that those were already mucked with. Also the Laser Disc version, the film was sped up to fit the thing. :yikes @: @:

I've been wanting to figure out how to see this movie in its original state for some time but what reminded me was something I picked up the other day.

The Story Of Star Wars 8-Track

It's one of those deals where it is the movie audio with a narrator overdub.

Something I just thought of. I wonder if there is any chance in heck that the audio on that 8-track is DD encoded... I'll have to run that through a DD reciever. Wouldn't that be funny. Wouldn't the Narrator overdubs mess up the encoding though?

Wait, that would be old Dolby surround, not DD. Do the DD DTS recievers decode that stuff? I've never done analog surround other than quad. Maybe I should run it through an SQ decoder since DS was based off SQ

The Story of Star Wars 8-track (narrated by Roscoe Lee Browne.... a.k.a. "Box" from Logan's Run) is interesting. I think it's lifted from the radio play that aired around '78 or '79. It does not feature a whole lot of dialog lifted from the movie, or if it does, it comes from alternate takes. Like the scene in the Death Star where C3P0 explains that a power loss at one of the terminals would stop the tractor beam from working.... most of it is not in the theatrical cut, later replaced for VHS/CED/Laserdisc and completely different on the 8-track. The 8-track omits an awful lot as well.

I have the 1981 Stereo CED of Star Wars (actually have the trilogy on CED). That's about as original as it gets.

Q8, didn't know they had sped up the film to fit it on one LD...

BTW,I really can't tell the diff cause 77 as a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away (puns...love 'em),
BUT,
AFAIK, the LD is the closest to the original version and all LD versions have Dolby Surround -decodes quite well, 2 Front and one Surround for both rears...

and as mentioned, the 2006 DVDs have that LD version , but they didn't even bother to do a proper video transfer , meaning the 2:35 ratio is INSIDE a 4:3 ratio..VERY SLOPPY!!!!

Yeah the DVDs are letterboxed. Pretty sad, but you can always zoom in and still get decent quality. And their soundtrack is really pretty close to the actual originals from 1977/80/83. I know that Lucas made some changes to the soundtracks even before he started the big remastering/reinventing wave in 1996, like moving or replacing some effects and, I think, lines here and there - but all those were minor changes so you're getting pretty much the original versions. I'm happy with the DVDs, for what they're worth.

I have the "Big 3" on DVDs that were sold to me by someone on e-bay about 2 years before they were released legally.
They are done up so professionally that it's hard to tell they were bootlegs (if they, in fact, were.)
They even have a DTS soundtrack.
If you want to take a crack at looking at them, let me know.

PS - The Story Of Star Wars" is also on a "picture disc" which I actually still have in my collection.

Based on the interviews done at the time of the SW Definative laserdisc release, the 1993 soundtracks used on the laserdiscs were made from a combination of the 4 track 35mm mix, the 70mm mix (even though it was still four channels with w/two LFE baby booms, it was mixed separately than the 4 track 35mm mix), and elements from the mono mix were incorporated as well, as that mix also had some effects or snippets of dialog that were unique to that mix.

To say it is convoluted is a big understatement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases


I've heard the black faced definitive edition laserdiscs did not use time compression (unconfirmed), but the later separately released "faces" THX LD re-issues did, for the purposes of getting them on fewer discs. The early pre-THX laserdisc releases used time compression as well.

The official DVDs of the original unaltered trilogy were made from the video masters used for the 1993 laserdiscs. This why they are not 16x9 enhanced for widesceen displays and are simply "letterboxed'. Ditto for the audio (1993 versions used for the THX LDs). Some bootlegs have used various audio sources (most being the laserdiscs) and simply upmixed them to Dolby or DTS 5.1

If one wanted to get as close as possible to the original mixes (which as someone already pointed out: Star-Wars has never been made available w/its original mix, as remixing or tweaking of the first feature was started by Lucas as soon as the early 1980s) the earliest available audio versions that I am aware of are the pre-THX laserdisc versions. Sure.. the video may not be ideal or full scope, or going back further, even pan and scan (yes- there were pan and scan laserdiscs of the OT), but the audio would likely be the 1980s Dolby Stereo mixes.


There IS one recent ray of hope regarding the original mixes. It's always been Lucas who has dismissed the original trilogy in their original form, including the original sound mixes. Now that Disney owns these features outright, it is very possible they could re-release these blurays (an eventual given, now that Episode seven has been announced for 2015) which could also include the unaltered originals as well. It would be a no-brainer from a marketing standpoint, as the fans have always have wanted decent versions of the OT. *That* would be new value added content, and actually give people a valid reason to repurchase these discs. If that indeed ends up being the case, hopefully the original audio would go along for the ride.

- Greg

I don't have any real complaints about what Lucas has done and based on the price he is getting from Disney, I must say all of the whining I see from fans of the movies sure isn't indication he has done anything to damage the value of his companies. He has managed the value brilliantly and made an unbelievable fortune on not much, pretty amazing in my opinion.

I just sold my futzed with DVD trilogy box set and purchased the Blu-ray trilogy box set and for some reason, the DVD set is bringing more money than the Blu-ray set, I came out ahead and I sure haven't done that often when I upgrade to Blu-ray and in fact I usually can't even sell DVD versions these days for enough to justify the effort. For whatever reason the DVD set is worth some money while the Blu-ray set isn't worth much at all. I am just going to live with the prequel trilogy on DVD since those DVDs aren't worth enough to sell. Overall I think the six movies so far are good, the prequels aren't great but better than their reputation and the original trilogy although better than the prequels aren't as good as their reputation. We watched all six in order in 2008 or 2009 in our home theater and enjoyed the movies and might do that again if there is another movie in the series made, just to get in the mood. I personally think Disney is going to have a hard time making this investment pay off, whatever portion is allocated to the Star Wars movies, and I haven't read anything about the acquisition and can't even venture a guess as to what that would be other than it must be a lot.

It may be noteworthy that on the 2004 (first time on) DVD release of the original trilogy, there was a problem with the surround track of Episode IV (a new hope). The rear surround channels of the music were switched. The sound effects however were in the correct channels. The publisher would not admit that this was a mistake and it only really seems to matter if you concentrate on the (music) soundtrack alone, with the rears cranked up a bit.

As for closest to the original, dare I say even correcting stuff Lucas en co. maybe should have done, have a look at the Star Wars Revisited offering. It is a fan edit that did 100's of little changes, from color corrections and light saber color changes to new sound effects, also most "new" stuff is removed and some scene sequence made more logical. This was literally years of work and until now only Ep. IV was completed and Ep. V (ESB:R) will not be completed before 2013 (see October 2012 update by Adywan (AD1).

Hi all, thought I'd bring this thread back to life as it's relevant to my question.

I'm presently studying cinema sound and looking to obtain a copy Star Wars Episode IV with (as close as possible) the audio mixes and channel arrangement of the original cinema releases, ie. 4 channel sound. From what I can tell in this thread and elsewhere, there seems to be several options: the 2006 box set mentioned in this thread; the 2008 box (according to Amazon reviewers) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Trilogy-Episodes-And/dp/B001FVKUA8; or this one, which is from 2006, Ep IV only (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-IV-Limited-Edition/dp/B000FMH8UI. The last one seems the best to me (plus it means I don't have to buy the whole box set). Would anyone concur? Also, it says that the sound for the Original Version of the film on Disc 2 is 2.0 Dolby Surround - what can I expect to be output from a DVD player - am I being too optimistic in hoping that I will get 4 channels of audio?

Many thanks in advance for any responses.

Q8 said:

Wait, that would be old Dolby surround, not DD. Do the DD DTS recievers decode that stuff? I've never done analog surround other than quad. Maybe I should run it through an SQ decoder since DS was based off SQ

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All Dolby Digital Decoders are fully DS, DPL and DPLII compliant as well - assuming that the "modern" AC3 stream is correctly encoded and flagged as "Dolby Surround".
The bitrate will still be a pitiful 0.192kbps though, and the quality will not be great - DS works better from LPCM.
An SQ decoder will not do the job very well - SQ is L,R,Ls,Rs and for Dolby Surround it became L,C,R,S with monophonic rears.
Lots of luck - the whole SW thing passed me completely by.

Q8 said:

It seems from what research I've done that the first home release was the 1981 VHS/BETA and that those were already mucked with.

Click to expand...

There was an earlier home release of Episode IV - sort of. When my brother bought a home movie camera in 1979 or 1980, his projector came with a 3-minute 8 mm film of scenes from "Star Wars" - with sound.

J. D.