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Thread: Reality Technologies Surround Master - Owners Thread

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    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    5.1 icon Reality Technologies Surround Master - Owners Thread

    It was suggested that the massive original Reality Technologies thread be split into this thread, and another for owners of the unit. So, here you go.

    Keep all discussion about the unit's operation and use in this thread, so that owners of the unit have a place to talk among themselves.

    The original thread will be closed, but can be accessed here:

    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...read.php?15976


    Thanks!
    :-jon

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    700 Club - QQ All Star rustyandi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    OK

    I will start as the one who has used it for the longest time
    1st it is as good as the QSD 1 as a QS Decoder

    And have been using it almost daily
    until I had this unit I was using the QSD 1 for about 35 years.

    I have a system that allows me to plug it easily and switch
    from 1 thing to another so I can compare decoders

    I have only used it as a 4 channel decoder for Stereo
    and it works from pleasing to Spectacular depending on tracks

    I am a surround fan so I am a Tragic and have not heard stereo on
    my system for years

    For someone who want's the Best QS decoder
    at a price that is not out bid (E/Bay) and a new listening experience from you Stereo
    this is it

    I write this as a person that enjoys music and if I can get any more
    fun from a piece of music then I am happy

    But remember all effects are random

    Happy New Year

    Ron
    Last edited by rustyandi; 01-18-2013 at 11:28 PM. Reason: missed ( not)

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    700 Club - QQ All Star rustyandi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    I have used the
    Vector 4 test LP
    And switched back and forward with the QSD1
    all the tests were the same on the Scope or a tiny bit better
    the side test was the same rear channels were sharp center rear was there
    and the image moved from right rear to left rear
    In all respects it the same as the QSD 1
    one thing I would like to point out that if you want to hear good Quad or
    any Surround it is best if you have the same speakers
    the bigger the better here are a number of Quad and 5.1 tracks
    that have bass in the rear and drums
    I have played Steely Dan QS lps and I have read that some people
    have thought that they were not Quad but if you hear them through the S/Master
    you will be surprised how good they are
    I also have the QSD 1000 it has a sharper image than it,and a QSD 2
    a friend of mine thought that the S/Master had a smother sound
    I could not hear that but I am not as young as I used to be
    As a QS decoder it is as good as the best
    I hope to have a site up with the scope showing the
    effects comparing QSD1 and S/Master decoding
    If charlie (chucky) will do it I am not able to
    I,m tired now want to go to bed

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi All

    Whilst I fully recognize a vectorscope is not a true quantitative test, it can be very useful in visually defining what is heard between comparative systems. I recently had the pleasure of visiting "Rustyandi" at his home where we compared many systems using Ron's Vectorscope. Below are links to Youtube channels where we directly compare The INVOLVE Surround Master against stereo, Dolby PL2, SRS circle surround, ambisonics and Tate-SQ.

    Of the three music pieces I find the Tracy Chapman track the most interesting as it is mostly front center with a small amount of studio ambiance in the background. Of all the systems I believe INVOLVE did by far the best job - keeping the stereo feel but just slight ambiance in the rear. Whilst Tate-SQ in general performed well you could hear a lot of frontal information being forced to the rear and sides. When you look at the Vectorscope you can see this.

    We will be publishing a few more of these in the next few days comparing things like decoding Dolby PL2 and the comparison with discrete.

    Enjoy

    Saturday Night
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-VJaKRSmzo

    Tracey Chapman
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991HJPvC-VE

    Ridiculous
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F15sA0qHgOI

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi All

    We have been doing quiet a few vectorscope comparisons with Rustyandi's assistance recently and I will ensure they are all presented to this site as they become available.
    Here is a few to get started with. Yes we will try to accommodate any requests you may have.

    Involve - decode of Electro Voice EV4 (the background voices are "Rustyandi" and mine.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Uzp...ature=youtu.be


    Involve - decode of Dolby Pro Logic II
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7Ag...ature=youtu.be


    Discrete 4.1 vs discrete 4.1 encoded to INVOLVE format - decoded via the INVOLVE Surround Master (password - involve)


    Please note on the discrete - INVOLVE format encode version we get even better surround results if we recorded in QS format but frankly the stereo image is then compressed. With INVOLVE format you cannot HEAR the difference. In addition the Surround master does pull some additional ambient information left over on the discrete version. We will publish the WS result on Oxforddickie's thread next week.

    Enjoy

    Chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    before anyone says anything
    The only LP that is EV4 is the middle one
    the others are DY
    we did a test on them to
    that will be shown later
    ron

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Richard

    Happy to try any test and welcome your comments. Please note that things have been a bit slow in the last few days here as we have the Australia day holiday, and I have just got out of hospital with a suspected heart attack! Turned out after 2 days of very invasive testing that my ticker is great and pain was an old shoulder injury acting up late at night.

    Things will eventually get done.

    As a general not I / we do not claim perfect decode of any format as errors will always exist but we believe we have in general excellent cross compatibility between various systems and in particular stereo. When either QS or INVOLVE is the source our panel studies have shown most people prefer the encode / decode to discrete (we published this study earlier on in the initial thread). I note that our advertising people are more bold than my statement but I really do not have much control or say in that area.

    Regards

    Chucky

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    400 Club - QQ All Star inkubuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi, well, yesterday I hooked up the Involve Surround Master to my receiver and... Im hooked up now...

    WOW!

    Ive got some amazing results. Ive been playing around with differents songs in mp3 and I have to say...great stuff.

    Everything has worked great, but there are some songs really amazing

    Hoobastank - The Reason
    Muse - Assasin
    Devin Townsend - Coast
    Muse - Knights of Cydonia
    Oceansize - Commemorative 9/11 T-Shirt
    Blackfield - Epidemic
    Blackfield - This Killer (although SW said that he couldnt multichannel mix for Blackfield its done so anyway and its there with the surround master)


    I have to mention PAntera - This Love, althou ther is nothing swirling around, its seems Phil Anselmo, the singer, is screaming in your face!!! and without spitting! its great!!

    there are a lot other songs I listened to, and its really good, but I was paying more attention to the music, than taking notes of which songs i liked the most

    thanks chucky and friends!

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Inkubuzz

    thank you for you comments. I note you experience the same thing I do - I actually forget to listen critically as I get distracted by the actual sound. I find that by effectively pulling the stereo track apart without sonic artifacts you actual get to focus on individual details.

    Regards

    Chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Richard

    I really think we are in agreement on many things and are after similar goals in terms of linearity etc. Having said that we all must face the fact that 99.9% of recorded material is STEREO and any successful surround system must be capable of convincing and pleasant "decoding" of this basic format. I suppose the real test is what the user actually prefers to listen to - the Surround Master decode or the original stereo. At this end the vast majority of trial users have preferred just leaving the system set to INVOLVE decode and feel a loss when STEREO is selected.

    Yes it is somewhat random but frankly I cannot remember an incidence where we get the audience up front and the performer in the rear!

    We claim that we have made considerable improvements to the phase detectors and the manner that information is used with respect to human hearing perception. The real challenge is to fool the listener to not hearing any control actions by the decoder.

    In regard to our mutual concern about encode/ decode linearity of the Surround Master may I refer you to page 10 and 11 of the INVOLVE Technical Specifications pdf (previously published) linked below. In this (static signal) test we plot the Input/ Output linearity of Involve left to right, front to rear and across diagonals. These tests were conducted a year or so ago and we have made significant improvement in this area but have not had time to fully document yet. Please note the scales are linear and not logarithmic and so are in fact a more conservative representation.

    Regards

    Chucky
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Again

    Actually I respectfully differ, the "pictures" / graphs were derived from real test data/ numbers obtained via well conducted AC Voltage in/ out measurement on the test equipment listed in the front of the document. All tests were conducted by an actual qualified electrical / electronic engineer (as am I- 33 years experience). No numbers have been "pulled out of my arse" or neatly sketched by some publicity type.

    If you want I will ask David to dig up the original test numbers.

    As stated we will do the decode of your files as suggested (David is one busy pumpkin) and submit it to all those who are interested. We have not checked your encode but given your experience I am sure they are fully QS compliant.


    Regards

    Chucky

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    byrdman7 byrdman7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Chucky,

    I installed a line level attenuator in the center channel and the 5.1 mode performs as well as the 4.0/4.1 mode which I have always raved about. I am sure you and David will address this issue by either a equal output from all 6 channels or a supplied in line attenuator to balance the center. Take care and thank you for providing a GREAT product.

    Regards,
    Reagan

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Reagan

    I am really happy that you were able to resolve the center channel level issue with the attenuator. One question, roughly how many db did you attenuate the center by for your system?

    Regards

    Chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chucky3042 View Post
    Hi Reagan

    I am really happy that you were able to resolve the center channel level issue with the attenuator. One question, roughly how many db did you attenuate the center by for your system?

    Regards

    Chucky
    Hi Chucky,

    I apologize for failing to mention details about the attenuator. I used a Harrison Labs 3dB RCA inline attenuator. They are not cheap but it does not cut bandwidth or add noise to the signal. I purchased your SM to install in a recording system I have to make dts CD discs for myself and friends. My recording system is not state of the art but sounds pretty darn good to us. Without the attenuator installed for the center channel in 5.1 mode the results were a center channel soundbar. As I stated earlier the 4.0/4.1 mode worked perfect out of the box. The only way I can control level before recording is with the main volume control of my OPPO BDP-83 so even output from the SM on all 6 channels is a must. It will also solve the problem of having to change center speaker levels on a receiver install every time you want to use it. I must also say that DPLIIx is not even close to the performance of your unit when it is calibrated properly. I sincerely hope my information is of help to you and others.

    Regards,
    Reagan

    NOTE: The Harrison Labs attenuators come in a pack of (2) and I am shipping the other one to a QQ Member that purchased your unit. I did the work and we both hear the glory :>)

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Reagan

    Any idea of the amount of dB you needed to attenuate?

    Regards

    chucky

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    byrdman7 byrdman7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chucky3042 View Post
    Hi Reagan

    Any idea of the amount of dB you needed to attenuate?

    Regards

    chucky
    Hi Chucky,

    See post #28 above. This thread is getting wild :>)

    Regards,
    Reagan

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi Again Reagan

    Oops, I missed the bit about the 3db attenuator. Thanks for the feedback.

    I remember back in the 70's the generally accepted mythology was the smallest change in level that was perceivable was 3dB, personally I can clearly hear major changes at 1 dB. In surround sound 3 dB is really noticeable!

    Regards

    Chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chucky3042 View Post
    Hi Again Reagan

    Oops, I missed the bit about the 3db attenuator. Thanks for the feedback.

    I remember back in the 70's the generally accepted mythology was the smallest change in level that was perceivable was 3dB, personally I can clearly hear major changes at 1 dB. In surround sound 3 dB is really noticeable!

    Regards

    Chucky
    I had to make several test discs by lowering the OPPO's output until I had no clipping in the center channel. It calculated to 3dB. I can hear 1dB level change too and in digital recording +1 dB can cause clipping so you can imagine what +3 dB was doing. The unit works like a charm now in 4.0, 4.1 and 5.1, I am VERY happy with its performance. Thanks again for a GREAT product.

    Regards,
    Reagan

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chucky3042 View Post
    Yes it is somewhat random but frankly I cannot remember an incidence where we get the audience up front and the performer in the rear!
    "We were gonna set the equipment up backwards and turn our bee-hinds to the audience so that way EVERYBODY would be backstage!" - David Lee Roth

    But seriously. I'm interested in the results of OD's requested tests as well.

    He may not have the best temperament in the world but he knows what he is doing and he is after the truth. The wold needs more of that.

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Hi All

    Dunno where I should post this one but as there are other comparisons on this thread I thought I would keep them together.

    Here is a vector scope look at how the INVOLVE Surround Master decodes Dolbly PL2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3PQBNckYg

    Enjoy

    Chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    And also...

    Discrete 4.1 vs discrete 4.1 encoded to QS format - decoded via the INVOLVE Surround Master


    Regards

    chucky

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Thanks for the videos. They give a good indication of the performance that may be expected from the unit

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Listening to The Alan Parsons Project - Turn of A Friendly Card off the HDAD Stereo DVD-A 192k 24bit via my Oppo -> Surrround Master = A winner!!

    Also listened to:
    Thomas Dolby - The Flat Earth - I need to formally compare this to my SPEC version - it (at first listen) sounds very similar to me....
    Tool - 10,000 days (Right in Two)

    I tried the QS test tones found here:
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...-QS-test-tones

    I have no reference to compare but, it didn't sound right to me....
    Has anyone else tried these?

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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    Gong - You - This is reference material for what it can do.... Thought I heard a guitar going round to all 4 speakers one after the other at one point.
    The Alan Parsons Project - I Robot - HDAD DVD-A is awesome too!!!

    Haven't heard a dud yet.....

    I'm working my way through this list:
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...l=1#post134140

  29. #25
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    Default Re: Reality Technologies Surround Master - 2013 Owners Thread

    It would be nice if everyone who gets one of these responds to this thread that they have one. I'm curious how many members actually bought one and what everyone thinks.
    :-jon

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