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View Poll Results: Rate the BDA of Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING

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  • 10: Great Surround, Great Fidelity, Great Content

    62 76.54%
  • 9:

    11 13.58%
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    5 6.17%
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    2 2.47%
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    1 1.23%
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    0 0%
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  • 1: Poor Surround, Poor Fidelity, Poor Content

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Thread: Wilson, Steven - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray Audio]

  1. #1
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    5.1 icon Wilson, Steven - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray Audio]

    Please post your thoughts and comments on this release from STEVEN WILSON.

    Raven Front 600.jpg
    Raven Back 600.jpg
    :-jon

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Received the limited edition Blu-Ray book/box-set today.
    The album in 5.1 is another stunner from Mr. Wilson. Personally I prefer it to Grace for Drowning. In general much warmer and melodic. Two tracks stand out on first listen, Drive Home and The Raven, both slow pieces. Also I really enjoyed The Watchmaker.
    The surround field is wide and enveloping in many places, but scales back for appropriate moments, no gimmicks, just gives an immersive feeling of being in the centre of the musicians without distractions.
    One other observation, it has some noise and hum of the analogue/live feel that is noticeable at the end of some tracks. I don't mind it, and in some ways it feels more genuine by being there.
    Overall, a very grown-up and less pretentious album than some previous offerings. A very good piece of work indeed.
    Last edited by pythonman; 02-22-2013 at 10:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Another observation, the PCM 5.1 audio track is recorded at a much lower volume than the DTS-MA HD 5.1 track, plus it may be my imagination but I think more defined (less boomy) bass as well.
    Also, as a tip, you'll notice there are instrumental versions (and one 'lounge' version) of each track. These are listed in small characters under each name of the main track (when in the track selection menu). At first I was using the down arrow on the remote control and it was only jumping between each main track and ignoring the alternative versions. But when you are on a main track if you then use the left arrow it will take you to the instrumental version! By the way these alternative versions are only in stereo as far as I can see.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    My copies also both arrived in the last 2 days - the book first, followed by the standalone a day later.
    It's too soon yet to give a vote on this one for me - at first listen, I prefer Grace by some way but with Steven it is impossible to go with initial reactions as first listen really is not close to long enough. To my mind it is also much more of a band album than either "Insurgentes" or "Grace for Drowning" were - the "Get All You Deserve" live show will give you an indication of the awesome quality of these players.

    Bonus content is partly out in plain view (the "making of" docco) and partly hidden in plain sight (the instrumental versions & the lounge version, as pointed out above) and I have to say I love the menu - very, very nice work from Ray at iSonic.
    I have to confess to being surprised the demo versions included on CD2 in the book are not on the BluRay, but this is by no means a problem.

    The book version is beautifully done & if you can find stock, I highly recommend it - not only is the art & drawings superbly executed (it looks like the same artist who did the workbook for "The Incident"), there is something indefinable about the way a new book smells - it's all part of the way Steven packages his art and sad to say he is in a minority as far too many people ignore this. If all that were not enough, the title is "The Raven that Refused to Sing & Other Stories" - and you get the stories in the book as well which I thought was a very nice touch indeed.

    Anyone who has not yet found it, there is a 1080p video of the title track at K-Scope's "youtube" channel which is an absolutely beautiful song. Simply outstanding.
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Can't vote yet, but on my first pass listening I am very happy this is in my collection. I sort of wish there were more tracks.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    I like the authoring too!!!

    I find this one has a slightly different sound to Grace for Drowning..... I like it though...Love the piano bits, Beggs on bass/stick, great drums...

    Steven got some great guys around him on this....

    Slightly off topic but I hope that this means that Ray Shulman will author a blu-ray for the Gentle Giant - In A Glass House that is rumoured to happen.... that would be cool

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    P.S. Don't watch the moon for too long on the screen - I makes me think I've been taking some stuff I haven't taken in a long time.... trippy!

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Musically speaking, this album gets a ***** (five thumbs up) recommendation from me.

    Incidentally, the last one of those I may have given was probably back in 1984 for Prince's "Purple Rain", none since.

    It felt like a work of art of the highest caliber, and the experience of first listening took me back to the long-ago forgotten 'warm-and-fuzzy' vibes of getting goose bumps hearing/discovering a spectacular album destined to become a classic. Truly beautiful and lyrical.

    Add Alan Parsons' touch to this... wow, just wow!

    The early reports from other geeks indicate that the Mch is DR:13, which (according to them) would make it three better than the stereo version purported to be DR:10. It might be a bit sad that the bonus instrumentals aren't Mch, but at this point not a big deal.

    I just hope it helps convert a few more young'uns to the surround camp.
    "Do not fear mistakes. There are none" Miles Davis

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Excellent album! Incredible how much more detail (and bass) is in this 5.1 version in comparison to the MP3 stereo versions I have been listening to for the past few weeks. MP3's really are crap aren't they? Anyway, a 10! Don't miss it.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Got my deluxe copy today, and the BD's a definite 10! (as if that was any surprise...)

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Can anyone tell me what the list price on the deluxe box set was before it went out of stock?

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Just ordered mine. Been out of the loop. Can't wait.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cibola View Post
    Can anyone tell me what the list price on the deluxe box set was before it went out of stock?
    I think Burning Shed had it for GBP45.00. Platomania in The Netherlands still have stock, at €69,99. JPC in Germany seems to have sold out on this item as well.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    On first listen this is the most interesting thing SW has done in years. Glad I just kept buying all his new releases...

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    For those who are interested, it looks like Amoeba Music has the deluxe set in stock currently at $65.98. I haven't received it so can't confirm that it's correct but the price seems to be in line with Burning Shed. I might have ordered once from AM in the past but can't recall quality of shipping packaging etc. I'm seeing this on the bay at upwards of $177 US.
    Daniel

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    I haven't picked up a copy yet, but based on the two tracks that are freely available (the title track and Luminol)...this is going be a very pleasant experience...

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by pythonman View Post
    Another observation, the PCM 5.1 audio track is recorded at a much lower volume than the DTS-MA HD 5.1 track, plus it may be my imagination but I think more defined (less boomy) bass as well.
    The two 5.1 waveforms (decoded DTS-MA and PCM) should be bit by bit identical, but slightly differ. The main properties are the same though, e.g., replaygain values which should not justify a volume difference. I also noticed this difference using PowerDVD which results probably from a software bug. If that's not the case, keep in mind that the DTS container may include metadata that assist the decoder in applying post processing to the signal which can create this volume difference.

    I hope that helps a bit.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    I know that this will probably never happen, but it seems to me that for your vote to qualify, you should, at least, be required to provide a brief explanation as to why you voted. Rather than feeling like you have to call out someone for a vote that seems rather random (I am referring to the "6"), it would prevent those "inexplicable" votes from dirtying the pool. I'm fine with a "6" or a "2" - just stand behind your vote with an explanation.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by zfox View Post
    The two 5.1 waveforms (decoded DTS-MA and PCM) should be bit by bit identical, but slightly differ. The main properties are the same though, e.g., replaygain values which should not justify a volume difference. I also noticed this difference using PowerDVD which results probably from a software bug. If that's not the case, keep in mind that the DTS container may include metadata that assist the decoder in applying post processing to the signal which can create this volume difference.

    I hope that helps a bit.
    Sorry zfox, you lost me there. If they are bit by bit identical how can they differ at all?

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by jberq View Post
    Sorry zfox, you lost me there. If they are bit by bit identical how can they differ at all?
    What I write is clear. They SHOULD be bit-by-bit identical. They are not, though. There are slightly different peaks. The DTS-MA files were properly decoded using the ArcSoft decoder.

    BTW, the lounge version of Drive Home is really nice.
    Last edited by zfox; 03-01-2013 at 08:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by zfox View Post
    The two 5.1 waveforms (decoded DTS-MA and PCM) should be bit by bit identical, but slightly differ.
    The two wav files came out bit identical for me using AudioMuxer. Also, processing the wav files with foobar 2000 DRM (Dynamic Range Meter) showed they both have the identical dynamic range and headroom. Here's the results from DRM:

    foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2013-03-01 16:27:49


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Statistics for: 01-The Raven That Refused To Sing
    Number of samples: 315075584
    Duration: 54:42
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ......................Channel 1.......Channel 2.......Channel 3.......Channel 4.......Channel 5.......Channel 6

    Peak Value:.......-0.10 dB........-0.10 dB.........-3.02 dB.........-2.54 dB.........-0.10 dB.........-0.10 dB
    Avg RMS:........-16.25 dB.......-16.21 dB.......-21.27 dB.......-24.24 dB.......-18.95 dB.......-18.73 dB
    DR channel:......12.14 dB.........11.93 dB........12.52 dB........15.35 dB.........14.19 dB........13.73 dB
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Official DR Value: DR13


    Samplerate: 96000 Hz
    Channels: 6
    Bits per sample: 24
    Bitrate: 7025 kbps
    Codec: WAV
    ================================================== ==============================

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    I'll add - if you are interested in what the output of the DRM means, you can read about it at the Pleasure Music Foundation

    Any DR value above 12 is considered very high quality (meaning minimal compression and other dynamic range processing.)

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    what devil magic does SW have that he can create something that expresses the heights and depths of the human experience through music and so well?

    the surround version of this album is brilliant and despite the musical form (even modern prog can sometimes come off as dated), this album did not come off that way at all...it's timeless..expertly executed both musically and sonically ...I would have gladly paid twice what I did for the experience.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by sukothai View Post
    I'll add - if you are interested in what the output of the DRM means, you can read about it at the Pleasure Music Foundation

    Any DR value above 12 is considered very high quality (meaning minimal compression and other dynamic range processing.)
    Adding more ... not that the numbers mean much of anything other than to confirm mathematically the streams are identical, but it is nice when the numbers confirm what you already know to be true. This album is a beautiful experience.

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    Default Re: Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING [Blu-Ray]

    Quote Originally Posted by sukothai View Post
    ...other than to confirm mathematically the streams are identical...
    Using foobar2000 v1.2.3, Audiomuxer v0.9.4.8, ArcSoft DTS-MA decoder v1.1.0.7.

    PCM replaygain analysis.
    pcm.png


    DTS-MA replaygain analysis.
    dts.png


    Mathematically identical (sample-by-sample) audio files will produce the same checksum when scanned properly. The above images show that a minor post-processing took place that I hope is inaudible.

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