Moody Blues Boxset with 5.1 DVD

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There were never going to be lps in sq. These will be same quad mixes we received on hi 8 years ago for the DTS releases. We used the fronts to create a center if we had to for DTS cds, but it is not needed, turn it off, it screws up the soundfield. They used the same material to create the sacds. The quad tapes Bob got out are the best there is. I have the original hi8s direct from the master. I still like the reels. These guys are not remixing all these albums for this set.

The original SACD's had stickers on them boasting 5.1 mixes, when they were really the same 4.0 mixes made for the never-released SQ LP's. If the mixes on the new box set are the same as the SACD's, I can't justify spending the money. If, however, they're new mixes actually in 5.1, I might consider it. Someone's gonna post their findings here before I shell out the bucks.
 
There were supposed to be SQ LP's of these albums, but the decision not to do so was made due to the fact the system was faltering. I quote from the liner notes from "A Question of Balance":

"The final chapter of the story of "AQOB" took place in 1972. With the invention of quadraphonic amplifiers and long playing records, Decca were keen to remix suitable rock albums in this new four channel format. As audio excellence was the hallmark of the Moody Blues, and as one of Decca's biggest selling acts, the band's catalog was an obvious choice for this treatment....Despite the excellence of the mix, the quadraphonic SQ system was not a successful medium and within six years the format had been discontinued."

What this tells me is that there were originally SQ LP's intended, but they scrapped the plans to do so when it bacame apparent the system was declining. So to say that they never had intentions to release these albums on quad vinyl, regardless of system, is incorrect. In fact, these albums were released in CD-4 in Japan. Personally, I would have preferred to have seen these albums, had they been released, done using QS instead of SQ. But it's all a moot point, since it never happened.








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As noted, this is a high priced box set, something meant to be special. What bothers me about it a little is that the extra mile wasn't ran to make it the absolute BEST from a sonic standpoint as it could have been. Which is to say, a better presentation of the multichannel mixes. But we're not even sure the new stereo remasters of the back catalog are going to be good or bad. Although Justin obviously felt there was room for improvement--at least from the CD's he's heard--we don't know what those are. Some think the old MFSL's were an improvement, and maybe they were. It's all in the mastering, though, and I've heard their stuff in stereo so many times it would take a major sonic revelation from many listeners to make me even think about investing in this one. As for the quad mixes, it's still my belief that they would have been best transferred without the tweaking that was obviously done to them for SACD (and therefore, this) release. And as the SACD's were available commonly for at least a year or two, that was enough time for anyone who cared to snag 'em before they went OOP. But well, I'll still wait to read what people around the net have to say about it, but my hopes aren't high.

ED :)
 
I agree with you, Ed. They seem to be charging a premium price for little to no improvement, as we interpret it. The SACD's may not be perfect, either, but I'll take 'em. I think having them in surround is a treat as it is, and if the masters could be improved on, for all we know they would have done it already. Since I already have the SACD's, and because they're hi-rez as well as surround, I don't think springing for the new box set is something I'll want to do.
 
Why didn't they just stick the 6 SACDs in the box set? (Probably because it would have cost too much to repress them)

But I'm sure it would have been a lot cheaper to make DVD-A's, right? :mad:@:

Who knows? I'm not buying, and I'm their target market! :)
 
It would have been ideal to use DVD-A discs, which would give the listener the best options for how to listen. Anyone with a DVD player could play the music in surround or stereo, and in hi-rez if they have a DVD-A player. The SACD's, good as they are, don't give the same options. But I'm with you, Jon. I'm not shelling out the money for an inferior product when I already have something better.
 
There were never going to be lps in sq. These will be same quad mixes we received on hi 8 years ago for the DTS releases. We used the fronts to create a center if we had to for DTS cds, but it is not needed, turn it off, it screws up the soundfield. They used the same material to create the sacds. The quad tapes Bob got out are the best there is. I have the original hi8s direct from the master. I still like the reels. These guys are not remixing all these albums for this set.

The liner notes quoted are somewhat deceiving, since the reason any company would have declined to use the SQ system for vinyl was for the logical reason that, while compatible (up to a point) with conventional stereo, it would require a sound system better than most consumers could afford to even begin to get the decoding and separation necessary to achieve the separation reels or Q8's could provide. Q8 was a convenient if inferior alternative, and that's the best that can be said for it. It's unfortunate Polygram didn't embrace CD-4, but with the variable quality of pressings and with hardware, can't really blame them for that, either. Had all consumers had quad reel players, everyone might have been happy and more companies might have bought into quad in general, but it just wasn't meant to be.

As for 'new mixes' I don't know where such speculation is coming from, since these albums were mixed to quad once. I've only pointed out that, during the mixing phase, some alternate mixes may have been made, and who knows, even mixes of the separate tracks exist, rather than the full crossfaded Lp versions we've come to know. But I doubt that any such creatures exist and if they do, are deeply buried in the vaults. I do remember Tony Clarke saying how time consuming it was to assemble each album for quadraphonic, just as each stereo album was meticulously prepared for release. Recording and mixing the Moodies would have been (just a guess) more complicated than doing the same for latter-day Beatles, or at least as challenging.

As you say, the best sound for quad Moodies is beyond the bounds of the commercial digital realm.

ED :)
 
There were supposed to be SQ LP's of these albums, but the decision not to do so was made due to the fact the system was faltering. I quote from the liner notes from "A Question of Balance":

"The final chapter of the story of "AQOB" took place in 1972. With the invention of quadraphonic amplifiers and long playing records, Decca were keen to remix suitable rock albums in this new four channel format. As audio excellence was the hallmark of the Moody Blues, and as one of Decca's biggest selling acts, the band's catalog was an obvious choice for this treatment....Despite the excellence of the mix, the quadraphonic SQ system was not a successful medium and within six years the format had been discontinued."

What this tells me is that there were originally SQ LP's intended, but they scrapped the plans to do so when it bacame apparent the system was declining....
Ampex put out two Moody Blues titles on quad reel in the early days of quad. SQ couldn't have been declining already at that point, since quad had just started.
 
Ampex put out two Moody Blues titles on quad reel in the early days of quad. SQ couldn't have been declining already at that point, since quad had just started.

Well, the problem is in the statement, since ALL quad formats--regardless of quality--were pretty much kaput by 1977 (with exceptions by title, and what was released seemed like a hangover of sorts, stuff already in the pipeline issued just because they were there). And the release of the Moodies on Q8 was pretty much the main choice for consumers, since most understood 8-tracks but only audiophiles (mainly) had any kind of reel player by 1972. And even then, a lot of folks had 8-track not at home (though I remember that we did) but in the car (which we also did). Worse, quad tape demanded a new player that, while backward compatible, meant a further investment, and most folks just didn't do that (unless they were audiophiles or music nuts like me).

But as far as we know, Decca did not show interest in the SQ system for vinyl. Further, if they were as audiophile-fixated as they seemed to be, CD-4 would have been the way to go, since even the lesser decoders offered more discrete separation than even moderately decent SQ decoders of the time. In short, quad was something that needed more hardware development before hitting the stores, and--as with the compact disc--'one format to rule them all, and in the industry bind them.' Or somethin' like that...:D

ED :)
 
Y'know, I was thinking just now that if The Moody Blues had released the 'core 7' albums in a little more of a similar fashion like the Genesis reissues (SACD/DVD-V), then that would render this set mostly useless, and still give us the video content contained in this set with the high-res SACD and bonus tracks.
This box though has got to be one of the most disappointing releases of the year...
 
I've been enjoying listening to this set although I admit I'm only up to disc #3 and didn't already have most of this material. I bought one copy for just over $200 USD delivered which I thought was a very reasonable price for 17 discs and the rest of the contents. The other copy was more expensive . I also have the deluxe SACD (Hybrid), SACD (Hybrid)/CD sets with the exception of DOFP which will arrive soon. I'm pretty sure I bought a copy when it was first released however I haven't located it and I also didn't have any equipment until recently that would play SACDs. That all changed a few months ago and now I'm chasing DVD-A's, SACDs, SHM-SACDs and Blu-Ray audio. I'm also embarrassed to admit that I'm just now learning all the terminology associated with this hobby/obsession and hopefully members here can go easy on me as I learn about all this.
 
If you are a Moodies fan, disc 7 of the Bluejays live in Scotland is worth seeking a listen. Sweet stuff.
 
...six albums of surround material that isn't squashed. Great mixes. Tons of other bonus stuff. Great value, seventeen discs! Full bitrate DTS, not half bitrate DTS CD. This is good despite all the negative posts prior to its release. The contrast between this and SPLHCB is night and day. Yes they added two redundant channels and no lossless option but still...
 
...six albums of surround material that isn't squashed. Great mixes. Tons of other bonus stuff. Great value, seventeen discs! Full bitrate DTS, not half bitrate DTS CD. This is good despite all the negative posts prior to its release. The contrast between this and SPLHCB is night and day. Yes they added two redundant channels and no lossless option but still...

I think most of the complaints come from the fact that not only is the audio lossy on the DVDs, but the DVDs were advertised as DVD-A before its release, and then when the set came out, it was discovered that the DVDs were in fact DVD-V. Plus, all 6 surround mixes were released as SACDs in 2006-07 so for those like me who have the SACDs, this box set is very redundant.
 
I think most of the complaints come from the fact that not only is the audio lossy on the DVDs, but the DVDs were advertised as DVD-A before its release, and then when the set came out, it was discovered that the DVDs were in fact DVD-V. Plus, all 6 surround mixes were released as SACDs in 2006-07 so for those like me who have the SACDs, this box set is very redundant.

Spot on...there are 11 CD's which contain the usual outakes and unreleased material and concerts from various locations...the usual book and photos..3 DVD-Vs with promotional videos and concert footage..and 3 DVD-A's with surround mixes that now exist on SACDs..I don't see any "value"...maybe back in 2013 when you could buy this set for $200...but now it's no bargain with prices in the $300 range...it is a nice collection for the rabid Moody Blues fan...but I suspect that resurrecting this 4 year old thread had more to do with taking another "shot" at Sgt Peppers than any "value related" post...

For those that aren't familiar with this box set....check it out
 
The liner notes quoted are somewhat deceiving, since the reason any company would have declined to use the SQ system for vinyl was for the logical reason that, while compatible (up to a point) with conventional stereo, it would require a sound system better than most consumers could afford to even begin to get the decoding and separation necessary to achieve the separation reels or Q8's could provide. Q8 was a convenient if inferior alternative, and that's the best that can be said for it. It's unfortunate Polygram didn't embrace CD-4, but with the variable quality of pressings and with hardware, can't really blame them for that, either. Had all consumers had quad reel players, everyone might have been happy and more companies might have bought into quad in general, but it just wasn't meant to be.

As for 'new mixes' I don't know where such speculation is coming from, since these albums were mixed to quad once. I've only pointed out that, during the mixing phase, some alternate mixes may have been made, and who knows, even mixes of the separate tracks exist, rather than the full crossfaded Lp versions we've come to know. But I doubt that any such creatures exist and if they do, are deeply buried in the vaults. I do remember Tony Clarke saying how time consuming it was to assemble each album for quadraphonic, just as each stereo album was meticulously prepared for release. Recording and mixing the Moodies would have been (just a guess) more complicated than doing the same for latter-day Beatles, or at least as challenging.

As you say, the best sound for quad Moodies is beyond the bounds of the commercial digital realm.

ED :)
Well, you pretty much answered the question about why Polygram didn't embrace CD-4, although some of the Moodies' albums were issued in that system in Japan. I think that Polygram had really been serious about releasing these albums on quad vinyl, QS would have been a better choice for a number of reasons. First, their French leg was already using it for some classical albums. Second, QS offers better separation, even on basic, non-logic systems than the equivalent SQ systems, and third, there's more compatibility with stereo, and even mono, than SQ. That alone would be a big factor if the records were to be broadcast on FM. CD-4 was a great system, at least on paper. In practice, it presented more problems than it did solutions. Matrix systems, flawed as they were, were still the best way to get quad on a record. And I remain convinced that QS was the better system of the two, and should have gained more acceptance than it did. Thank CBS for using its big name and influence for getting so many companies to use SQ instead.
 
If this was six Beatles albums, this thread would have a completely different tone in my opinion. The sound quality and the mixes are better here, than the one and only full Beatles multichannel album we have. The Beatles are ingrained in our hearts while the Moody Blues are just another band from the sixties for most. The interesting contrast is this thread vs the Sgt. Pepper thread. Very different in many respects because of the popularity of one band and not the other.

Has anyone compared the remastering of this box to the SACD's? The SACD's are criticized pretty heavily in the first couple posts of this thread which I don't disagree. I have all the SACD's and I rarely listen to them although I do like the band. I found myself really enjoying the first two Quad discs in this set yesterday and it made me wonder why I don't listen to the SACD's more. Eventually I suppose I will have to rip the SACD's and do a proper comparison but until then I wonder if anyone knows if they are indeed identical, including the mastering?
 
I think most of the complaints come from the fact that not only is the audio lossy on the DVDs, but the DVDs were advertised as DVD-A before its release, and then when the set came out, it was discovered that the DVDs were in fact DVD-V. Plus, all 6 surround mixes were released as SACDs in 2006-07 so for those like me who have the SACDs, this box set is very redundant.

Yes they were advertised as dvd-audio discs but if you read the posts here many had already speculated they would be standard DVD's. I don't think many were surprised.
 
If this was six Beatles albums, this thread would have a completely different tone in my opinion. The sound quality and the mixes are better here, than the one and only full Beatles multichannel album we have. The Beatles are ingrained in our hearts while the Moody Blues are just another band from the sixties for most. The interesting contrast is this thread vs the Sgt. Pepper thread. Very different in many respects because of the popularity of one band and not the other.

Has anyone compared the remastering of this box to the SACD's? The SACD's are criticized pretty heavily in the first couple posts of this thread which I don't disagree. I have all the SACD's and I rarely listen to them although I do like the band. I found myself really enjoying the first two Quad discs in this set yesterday and it made me wonder why I don't listen to the SACD's more. Eventually I suppose I will have to rip the SACD's and do a proper comparison but until then I wonder if anyone knows if they are indeed identical, including the mastering?

From memory, the SACDs and DVDs use the same mastering, and that’s another reason why this box set is redundant for most of us, and I consider myself to be a HUGE Moody Blues fan, having been to 7 of their shows and also owning all 7 of their SACDs (including the stereo-only “In Search of the Lost Chord”).

The deal breaker for me when it came to this box set was the lack of high-resolution audio on the DVDs since I already owned the SACDs.

I agree that the Moody Blues have been mostly underrated and underappreciated amongst the general public over the last 20+ years, but I have no complaints with any of their SACDs, just as i have no complaints with the “Sgt Pepper” Blu-Ray from the Beatles.

Finally, if anyone is having trouble acquiring the SACDs, I can recommend the latest 50th anniversary reissue of “Days of Future Passed” (with surround sound DVD) as a very worthwhile purchase! :)
 
I'm really dismayed that Universal never released the Moodies on BD~A when they initiated their "launch."

Wonder if the Japanese will ever tackle the Moodies QUAD titles? Based on my recent acquisition of several Blue Note Jazz Titles on Japan ONLY BD~As [Stereo/Mono], they NEVER sounded better.

The SACDs do sound wonderful on my system but a bit uneven. DOFP sounds fantastic but wonder how much better Japanese remastering would affect the sound....especially if QUAD DSD mastering was applied.
 
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