Problems with Imported Video_TS in DiscWelder Chrome

The only trouble with DAC is the expense - if you can find a copy for sale.
There is an, ahem, educational version to be found but the version is 3.0.5 whereas mine is 3.0.11 and 3.0.12 with a unified Command Edit/Author GUI and the old version has separate things for these, and documentation is very hard to find. It is well worth persevering - there is a lot that is far from obvious & simply cannot be deduced as it works by using 6 (or 7) separate applets instead of having it all "under one roof".
There are specific project folder structures that must be adhered to (or the compiler will not find the files) and very strict naming protocols for all graphical assets (same reason).
However - once done & learned it is incredibly flexible, ultra-stable - it works with XML files & never touches the actual assets so almost no resources used, but there is likewise no way at all to preview but when you do compile for testing you can do a minimal compile and truncate the actual audio down to as low as 10% which is ideal for faster compiles when all you want to do is test the navigation - allowing you to use an RW disc instead of wasting DL discs and best of all you get full access to the specs, allowing all sorts of fun to be had.

2nd hand copies can be found - they are out there - and I will probably be getting myself a second seat soon too.
If time permits later this year I will try & get my head around the educational build & see about a basic guide. For a "quick & dirty" disc, it is as fast as Chrome is to use. It's only when you start getting into the graphical possibilities it gets confusing. One of the things I really like about it is that as long as you remain in the 9 group limit you can import audio once but use it several times without duplicating it on the disc (Chrome cannot do this because it imports the audio streams directly into the groups) so you can have multiple playlists - say "original running order", "alternate running order", "ballads" or whatnot but only have each track written to the disc once - this is how discs that had both linked lyrics & slide modes were done.

Getting back OT, I will make the time to see if I can work out why Chrome has this bug - is it for the imported Video_TS, or in the main Lossless section as well?

Thanks for the detailed assessment of Sonic's DAC. I have to think, do I need DAC for my hobby?
Maybe there is a program to fix bugs like PGCEdit but for DVD-Audio.

neil wilkes said:

Getting back OT, I will make the time to see if I can work out why Chrome has this bug - is it for the imported Video_TS, or in the main Lossless section as well?

Click to expand...

A similar error occurs only with imported Video_TS.
I have not had this error in the lossless section neither on this disk nor on my other discs that I’ve had previously prepared using Chrome.
When I started this discussion, I could not imagine that the problem would be so complicated. Indeed, various aspects of using Chrome and DVD-Lab PRO2 to create hybrid DVD-A / V have been discussed here and in other forums.
Nobody has reported about such error, so I assumed that it’s possible to get discs without the bug.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Had anyone been able to produce a working DVD-A / V, using these programs?

EnotSPb said:

Thanks for the detailed assessment of Sonic's DAC. I have to think, do I need DAC for my hobby?
Maybe there is a program to fix bugs like PGCEdit but for DVD-Audio.



A similar error occurs only with imported Video_TS.
I have not had this error in the lossless section neither on this disk nor on my other discs that I’ve had previously prepared using Chrome.
When I started this discussion, I could not imagine that the problem would be so complicated. Indeed, various aspects of using Chrome and DVD-Lab PRO2 to create hybrid DVD-A / V have been discussed here and in other forums.
Nobody has reported about such error, so I assumed that it’s possible to get discs without the bug.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Had anyone been able to produce a working DVD-A / V, using these programs?

Click to expand...

Yes - the first discs we did were done with Chrome 2 and we went to DAC because wer got fed up with not only the ridiculous limitations but also the lack of support (product dropped with no notice) and the terrible bugs.
I will have a look as soon as I get the time - hopefully this week - but the problems with it are what they fix in one build seems to break something else.
Believe me, DAC is a hell of a lot easier to use once you understand the way it does things

neil wilkes said:

Yes - the first discs we did were done with Chrome 2 and we went to DAC because wer got fed up with not only the ridiculous limitations but also the lack of support (product dropped with no notice) and the terrible bugs.
I will have a look as soon as I get the time - hopefully this week - but the problems with it are what they fix in one build seems to break something else.

Click to expand...

So, I just should to find an operable version...
Speaking seriously, I know it about Chrome 2. For example, I've noticed that sometimes discs created by 2.0.30 gave the wrong track time on the display. Therefore I preferred more stable 2.0.25 until recently.

neil wilkes said:

Believe me, DAC is a hell of a lot easier to use once you understand the way it does things

Click to expand...

I've started searching for documentation, information etc. First of all, I want to know how to work with Sonic's DAC.
I would like to "understand the way it does things".

EnotSPb said:

So, I just should to find an operable version...
Speaking seriously, I know it about Chrome 2. For example, I've noticed that sometimes discs created by 2.0.30 gave the wrong track time on the display. Therefore I preferred more stable 2.0.25 until recently.


I've started searching for documentation, information etc. First of all, I want to know how to work with Sonic's DAC.
I would like to "understand the way it does things".

Click to expand...

Chrome 2's biggest flaw was the whole drag & drop "working with assets" approach as it boxed them into a nasty corner. The other big issue was that an understanding of the way DVD-A is laid out was taken as read, which made the whole custom menu thing very hard to work with added to which was the huge omission of allowing Pre & Post commands in the main navigational menus (AMGM). The next problem is that Sonic assumed much the same things as regards a working knowledge, and then they added mandatory folder structures & file naming protocols. Then they started to update the whole system and combined the "Command Edit" & "Author" mode into one window and removed the whole page where you laid out the structures.
It's all lots & lots of fun, that's for sure.
The version I understand is the combined version - 3.0.11/12 onwards.

neil wilkes said:

Chrome 2's biggest flaw was the whole drag & drop "working with assets" approach as it boxed them into a nasty corner. The other big issue was that an understanding of the way DVD-A is laid out was taken as read, which made the whole custom menu thing very hard to work with added to which was the huge omission of allowing Pre & Post commands in the main navigational menus (AMGM). The next problem is that Sonic assumed much the same things as regards a working knowledge, and then they added mandatory folder structures & file naming protocols. Then they started to update the whole system and combined the "Command Edit" & "Author" mode into one window and removed the whole page where you laid out the structures.
It's all lots & lots of fun, that's for sure.
The version I understand is the combined version - 3.0.11/12 onwards.

Click to expand...

First I was disappointed looking for information.
Short howto in Russian, similar laconic text in English, superficial discussions in some forums. That's all.
Almost no mention about version 3.0.11/12. Even www.sonic.com does not exist. Perhaps because of the deal with Roxio.

Probably, it is a success that I've found a draft of Sonic's DAC user guide for the educational version as you say.
Certainly a common interface would be more convenient in comparison with several disparate tools, but it is quite suitable for beginning as well.
So, I've started studying three hundred pages of the document.

If you have a draft copy that shows the AUTHOR & COMMAND EDIT versions separately, you have all you need.
It will also get you used to knowing what AMGM_DOM & TT_GR_DOM are (and why it matters).
There are serious drawbacks to the build 3.0.5 - no PGC Block authoring without editing XML files manually, and almost certainly no 16:9 either as this was only added to the DVDA specs later on.
I am trying to remember that build - it has been so long since I used it.
The app is rock solid stable though, but unless you edit those XML you will need to define a downmix in the 5.1 streams & create a second group for the stereo stream.
Remember too that the naming protocols for DVDA are stringent & mandatory - here are some pointers:
1 - never, ever use a space in a file name. Always use Alphanumeric & underscores only. Otherwise you may find menus will import but not compile.
2 - SubPicture HighLight (SPHL) images must be indexed, delimited 2-bit bitmaps (with the TIF or BMP extension - TIF is better) and can only contain solid black, Solid Red or Solid Blue colours at 0,0,0, 255,0,0 and 0,0,255 RGB values or again the menu will import & will work but you will find you cannot display any buttons on the finished disc. They are there, you just will never see them.
3 - Never, ever re-use assets with the same name. Many problems if this happens, all of them ugly.
4 - When creating menus, always but always turn off colour management in Photoshop.

We should probably try to make a decent guide for this stuff, as there are so many traps for the unwary - Here's another one:
There is no provision in the specs at all for a jump from TT_GR_DOM to AMGM_DOM. This means no jump from playing disc back to main menu.
Workaround - add a 1-second empty track with a black still to the end of each audio group, and point the "Main Menu" button at this with a BRANCH command. It will "play" the 1 second silent track & then execute group end action, reverting to the PRE area of the first menu defined in the Language section (AMGM_DOM = Audio Manager Menu Domain). The Pre area is where you put any code for getting to a different menu other than the main one, which may be a label splash or something that should only ever be seen once. This is automatic in Chrome but only to a point.

Neil, many thanks for your reply.
At the moment I have learned, or rather, read about IMPORT, AUTOR & COMMAND EDITOR.
I think I'm starting to «understand the way it does things».
Since I can link to any track-point in the video part from AMGM_DOM, hence I can put there both playlists (MLP and DTS).
It would be absolutely impossible if using DiscWelder.
Thus, my «Problems with Imported Video_TS in DiscWelder Chrome» will be solved, but without DiscWelder Chrome.
I must admit it was a bad idea to use DiscWelder for a hybrid disc.
I realize that Sonic's DAC has its own characteristics and limitations that I'll have to find out going to the end of entire workflow.
Perhaps more specific problems will arise. But, definitely, it's a solution, but not a path to a dead end.
Maybe I'll ask some more questions, and answers will be useful not only for me.
And, of course, a guide would be very useful too.

EnotSPb said:

Neil, many thanks for your reply.
At the moment I have learned, or rather, read about IMPORT, AUTHOR & COMMAND EDITOR.
I think I'm starting to «understand the way it does things».

Click to expand...

That's a good start - you have found the part about project folder structure, and how each imported asset needs to be imported to the right location in this?

EnotSPb said:

Since I can link to any track-point in the video part from AMGM_DOM, hence I can put there both playlists (MLP and DTS).
It would be absolutely impossible if using DiscWelder.

Click to expand...

Yes and no. You can indeed put playlists into AMGM_DOM - this is the whole DVD-A equivalent of the VMGM space. Also, you kinda have to - where else would they go? You can add am embedded playlist in the tracks but again this would be an active screen, and would need yet another name. The way I would do it in AMGM space would be to have MLPPlaylist.tif (group 1, 5.1 & 2.0 MLP), DDDTSPlaylist (obvious), LPCMPlaylist - one of the quirks is that if a title exists in the Video_TS it must be pointed in the Audio Manager AMGM space. So for example of your Video_TS has 3 titles ( in 3 separate VTS) where VTS 1 = Original Stereo Mix, VTS2 = Surround & VTS3 = Stereo Remix these would then need 3 separate groups in your Command Editor / Author layout (you could do it all in one of course, but that would mean anyone playing any of it would get all of it). You can do this with Chrome as well - it assumes every menu you add is an AMGM_DOM screen unless you tell it different (in Chrome, this is done by making it a track associated menu, or in Sonic an ASV)
Any screens you want to display during playback have to be added to the relevant audio track

EnotSPb said:

Thus, my «Problems with Imported Video_TS in DiscWelder Chrome» will be solved, but without DiscWelder Chrome.
I must admit it was a bad idea to use DiscWelder for a hybrid disc.
I realize that Sonic's DAC has its own characteristics and limitations that I'll have to find out going to the end of entire workflow.
Perhaps more specific problems will arise. But, definitely, it's a solution, but not a path to a dead end.
Maybe I'll ask some more questions, and answers will be useful not only for me.
And, of course, a guide would be very useful too.

Click to expand...

Only partly solved, as you definitely still have to create spec legal Video_TS folders. DAC will allow you to import non spec, but there are no guarantees it will work of course.
That said, it should do, as Audio players ignore commands in VTS titles.
Sonic's DAC has no limitations - it is full spec DVD-A authoring. The only limitations are format ones where it was designed by committee.
Still not sure of 3.0.5 works in 16:9 or not, so will go get a copy of it & have a look.

neil wilkes said:

Yes and no. You can indeed put playlists into AMGM_DOM - this is the whole DVD-A equivalent of the VMGM space. Also, you kinda have to - where else would they go? You can add am embedded playlist in the tracks but again this would be an active screen, and would need yet another name. The way I would do it in AMGM space would be to have MLPPlaylist.tif (group 1, 5.1 & 2.0 MLP), DDDTSPlaylist (obvious), LPCMPlaylist - one of the quirks is that if a title exists in the Video_TS it must be pointed in the Audio Manager AMGM space. So for example of your Video_TS has 3 titles ( in 3 separate VTS) where VTS 1 = Original Stereo Mix, VTS2 = Surround & VTS3 = Stereo Remix these would then need 3 separate groups in your Command Editor / Author layout (you could do it all in one of course, but that would mean anyone playing any of it would get all of it). You can do this with Chrome as well - it assumes every menu you add is an AMGM_DOM screen unless you tell it different (in Chrome, this is done by making it a track associated menu, or in Sonic an ASV)
Any screens you want to display during playback have to be added to the relevant audio track.

Click to expand...

My current test project is a little easier. One MLP stream with slides for each track, one DTS stream in video part, MLP & DTS playlists with a streams selection menu all putted in AMGM_DOM. I know that in accordance with spec there must be a stereo / DD as the first stream in the video part. I'll add it later.

neil wilkes said:

Only partly solved, as you definitely still have to create spec legal Video_TS folders. DAC will allow you to import non spec, but there are no guarantees it will work of course.
That said, it should do, as Audio players ignore commands in VTS titles.
Sonic's DAC has no limitations - it is full spec DVD-A authoring. The only limitations are format ones where it was designed by committee.
Still not sure of 3.0.5 works in 16:9 or not, so will go get a copy of it & have a look.

Click to expand...

By the way, I’ve got Sonic's recommendation to replace VTSM with WMGM, so I have a direction for adjusting Video_TS.
With regard to limitations, it's not the spec restrictions, but restrictions of an "as is" software.
For example, a couple of days I was trying to figure out what the volume-id is which should be restricted to 32 characters. I've changed my hard drive labels, moved the project folder etc. It turned out that this was the album title, referred to in AUTOR, I've used the very long real album's name.
At the same time, I realized that it is very difficult to correct mistakes; I have had to repeat all the steps, almost from the beginning.
Now, I've stopped at the stage of Layout in Format.



It is much more surprising because all previous stages of the Format program were performed without errors.



Let's see what I can do ...

To neil wilkes

Phew, at last I have solved the Format problem!
Once upon a time my car service mechanic said that I've always had an untypical problem. I believe this was one of them.
It turns out that it was necessary to disable the file attribute “compressed” of the project's folder.
I can’t remember, maybe there was not such an option yet in Windows2000.
So, you could add it to your recommendations (see your post #27 in this topic):
5 - Never, ever turn on the hard disc space compression.

EnotSPb

Thought folks might find this handy, found a OOP - DAC User Guide PDF: http://www.quadraphonic.info/DVD-Audio-SACD-Blu-Ray/manuals/Sonic-DAC_Guide-draft2.pdf

Also, "Understanding DVD-A" guide: http://www.quadraphonic.info/DVD-Audio-SACD-Blu-Ray/manuals/wp_dvd_audio.pdf

EnotSPb said:

My current test project is a little easier. One MLP stream with slides for each track, one DTS stream in video part, MLP & DTS playlists with a streams selection menu all putted in AMGM_DOM. I know that in accordance with spec there must be a stereo / DD as the first stream in the video part. I'll add it later.




By the way, I’ve got Sonic's recommendation to replace VTSM with WMGM, so I have a direction for adjusting Video_TS.
With regard to limitations, it's not the spec restrictions, but restrictions of an "as is" software.
For example, a couple of days I was trying to figure out what the volume-id is which should be restricted to 32 characters. I've changed my hard drive labels, moved the project folder etc. It turned out that this was the album title, referred to in AUTOR, I've used the very long real album's name.
At the same time, I realized that it is very difficult to correct mistakes; I have had to repeat all the steps, almost from the beginning.
Now, I've stopped at the stage of Layout in Format.

View attachment 10183

It is much more surprising because all previous stages of the Format program were performed without errors.

View attachment 10184

Let's see what I can do ...

Click to expand...

Once you get your head around DAC and it's bugs (not sure what the issues are with that version apart from the way AUTHOR & COMMAND EDIT are separated out - mine has this combined, and it is much easier) it is an incredibly powerful tool. The biggest problem is the complete & total lack of any support.
With the FORMAT another seriously annoying issue for me is that if you are doing anything Dual Layer, you will not find out if the Layer Break you set is right until the end of the FORMAT process.....and then there is the whole business of getting the contents of the IMAGE folder to something usable - you will need GEAR Pro Mastering Edition if DDP is needed, and it will be unless you have a big pile of DLT tapes & the SCSI DLT2000 type machine to write them with. Sonic outputs images only to specially formatted SCSI HDD or to a local NTFS folder as 2 folders: Video_TS & Audio_TS. Getting this replicated can be a PITA - IMGBurn will help, but written discs will not allow Parallel Track Path discs to be set (you can do this, and it allows Layer 1 to be larger than Layer 0).

Strange you cannot use VTSM - this is allowed (the specs were changed to allow this) and it saves a hell of a lot of pain in the Video_TS. AFAIK, DVD-Lab Pro in non-abstraction layer mode is by far & away the easiest to use, as Scenarist will not allow a slideshow with track points - and non contiguous files in a VTS are not allowed (Video_TS import will fail)

Best use of Video_TS is to use the VMGM screens for everything except Audio Setup & tracklists. Why? Well, if you put the Audio Setup in VMGM then you cannot use a SetSTN command off a button (out of spec) so you would then need to use Dummy menus with the SetSTN command in the Pre-Command area as command 1, then the branch to the tracklist as number 2. Tracklists should be in VTSM because pressing the MENU button on the remote in DVD-V will return the user to the root menu of the current VTS.

Have you found the project template yet? This is vitally important, as the compiler will expect to find certain files in certain places. Correcting cock-ups is actually a lot easier than you might think.
To recompile, go into the PUBLISH folder of your project and delete the text files & the IFO files (there will be 5 in all) but leave the XML files well alone. Audio can be re-imported (right click the imported audio file in it's group), likewise menus.
When reimporting never, ever use the same file name.
Never ever have spaces in file names - they will import but not compile.
Dummy menus will become your new, special friend.

If there is anything you need help with, drop me an email in the first instance - I do not get here as often as I ought to, and it may well be a while before I find a problem.

PS.
You will not miss Chrome. Not one little bit. :sun

neil wilkes said:

Once you get your head around DAC and it's bugs (not sure what the issues are with that version apart from the way AUTHOR & COMMAND EDIT are separated out - mine has this combined, and it is much easier) it is an incredibly powerful tool. The biggest problem is the complete & total lack of any support.
With the FORMAT another seriously annoying issue for me is that if you are doing anything Dual Layer, you will not find out if the Layer Break you set is right until the end of the FORMAT process.....and then there is the whole business of getting the contents of the IMAGE folder to something usable - you will need GEAR Pro Mastering Edition if DDP is needed, and it will be unless you have a big pile of DLT tapes & the SCSI DLT2000 type machine to write them with. Sonic outputs images only to specially formatted SCSI HDD or to a local NTFS folder as 2 folders: Video_TS & Audio_TS. Getting this replicated can be a PITA - IMGBurn will help, but written discs will not allow Parallel Track Path discs to be set (you can do this, and it allows Layer 1 to be larger than Layer 0).

Click to expand...

I have successfully completed my first single-layer training project. “Anything Dual Layer” will be my next step.
However, I couldn’t write Audio_TS and Video_TS folders to NTFS hard drive. The Imager required either DLT or SCSI in this version. So I’ve used a crazy workflow, to get the iso-file from the Image folder.
First, using an amateurish console utility imagebuild.exe, I’ve got an image, but with some bug in the video part. Then I’ve put this image into a virtual drive and assembled a new image using Gear Pro ME. I haven’t taken Video_TS folder from the virtual drive, but I took this folder directly created by DLP2.
I do not know how this sequence occurred to me, but I’ve got a fully functional disk.

neil wilkes said:

Strange you cannot use VTSM - this is allowed (the specs were changed to allow this) and it saves a hell of a lot of pain in the Video_TS. AFAIK, DVD-Lab Pro in non-abstraction layer mode is by far & away the easiest to use, as Scenarist will not allow a slideshow with track points - and non contiguous files in a VTS are not allowed (Video_TS import will fail)
Best use of Video_TS is to use the VMGM screens for everything except Audio Setup & tracklists. Why? Well, if you put the Audio Setup in VMGM then you cannot use a SetSTN command off a button (out of spec) so you would then need to use Dummy menus with the SetSTN command in the Pre-Command area as command 1, then the branch to the tracklist as number 2. Tracklists should be in VTSM because pressing the MENU button on the remote in DVD-V will return the user to the root menu of the current VTS.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right. The spec was changed, but, unfortunately, not the old version of DAC.
Finally, I’ve used VTSM as tracklist, having ignored the DAC’s warning.
I have to thank you once again for your recommendation to use PGCEdit. This is a great tool! I have not been able to create a workable Video_TS without the program.

neil wilkes said:

Have you found the project template yet? This is vitally important, as the compiler will expect to find certain files in certain places.

Click to expand...

Apparently, the project template may differ from the manual. For example, there is an alternative.
I’ve used specified subfolders starter set: AUDIO, PUBLISH, AUTHORSCRIPT, IMAGE, MENU and VOB. However, the AUTHORSCRIPT folder remained empty, and the IMAGE folder can have any name. This name must be entered into the FORMAT utility. Other necessary folders were created automatically during import and compilation.
Although, perhaps better to leave some empty folders than not to have the right one.

neil wilkes said:

Correcting cock-ups is actually a lot easier than you might think.
To recompile, go into the PUBLISH folder of your project and delete the text files & the IFO files (there will be 5 in all) but leave the XML files well alone. Audio can be re-imported (right click the imported audio file in it's group), likewise menus.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much, of course I will try it.
I’ve used yet another method. I’ve set read-only file attributes for *CMD-DOC.XML files in the PUBLISH folder, so that the Author could not change them when executing the Publish command.

neil wilkes said:

When reimporting never, ever use the same file name.
Never ever have spaces in file names - they will import but not compile.
Dummy menus will become your new, special friend.

Click to expand...

Surprisingly, sometimes Sonic’s DAC itself generates file names with spaces. Down with the double standards policy!

neil wilkes said:

If there is anything you need help with, drop me an email in the first instance - I do not get here as often as I ought to, and it may well be a while before I find a problem.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your suggestion. In the near future I am planning another hybrid disc. Then maybe there will be some questions.

neil wilkes said:

PS.
You will not miss Chrome. Not one little bit. :sun

Click to expand...

Of course I continue to use Chrome for «quick & dirty» discs. It’s the easiest way to create a single stream project, say, to check the sound on a standalone player.

Please send me your email address again - there is a lovely little utility I have for getting your ISO image created.
There are other options too, such as IMGBurn.
FORMAT outputs - if you have your project folder set up correctly - the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders to the IMAGE subfolder in the project, along with all thew IFO & NAV layout data. Unless you have done something such as formatting in PTP mode then you will have used OTP and will have Layer 0 bigger than Layer 1. No problems there - simply run up IMGBurn (or my little utility) in EZ Pick mode, and tell it you want to make folders into ISO images. Point it at the AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folders in (Projectname)/IMAGE and set your info, follow the prompts to set a Layer Break if doing DVD9 (you will have set this in DAC already, or it will not compile) or just follow the prompts if doing DVD5. That will get you a playable disc. Replication Master should never be a playable disc, but either DLT or DDP. For DDP you will need GEAR Pro Mastering Edition - it will do the job for you, and do it properly. Hardest part there is again setting the layer break. I can help you with that though.
IMAGER is useless to you unless creating replication masters to DLT or SCSI HDD (this would have to be a hot-pluggable thing, as the process formats the HDD to a special type) which is pointless as no replication plant will accept them these days (and fewer & fewer will accept DLT2000 (Type III and Type III/XT) which is all you used to need - these days it is all DDP images)

Creating disc in GPME.
1 - Create new DVD-Audio project
2 - Import Audio_TS files from prompt. (should be located in <X>:/<projectname>/IMAGE)
3 - Import Video_TS files from Prompt. (should be located in <X>:/<projectname>/IMAGE)
(3a - Set Layer Break if DVD9)
4 - Burn disc.
It really is that easy.

Easiest way to do a single stream project is in DAC for me.
Import Audio using that tool.
Op-en Command Edit, add right number of audio tracks.
Import the audio to each by importing the XML.
Set Continuous playback for AOB & ASVU
Set to autoplay Disc, not menu.
Turn return to menu off.
Save project
Compile using FORMAT - done. With a 10-track MLP file the process takes about an hour all told and is far more player friendly than Chrome's output.
You will never use Chrome again once you realise how easy a basic no visual disc is in DAC.

It will be interesting to find out how much DAC 3.0.5 will not do - if you are feeling brave I have a reg file for the spec book update that may or may not work for your version.
You can safely ignore the VTSM is not allowed warning, but any other spec violations should not be ignored out of hand, as some replication plants will fail the image set if Eclipse catches an error (as they should).
Trouble is not all Eclipse errors are correctly flagged....will 3.0.5 do PGC Block authoring, do you know? (Surround & Stereo in the same group)

Re Structure I use the template provided on install DVD:

ProjectName > Audio, Authorscript, Image, Menu, Publish, Vob.
Under "Menu" I have sub-folders PGC, Trackslides, Embeddeds, Galleries, Lyrics, Motions, Splashes.
During compile (FORMAT) folders TIFF & Script will be created. The structure really does help keep track, and you must be organized right from the start.
Never use spaces in file names - ever. You may be able to import them but you will never be able to compile them.
With Widescreen menus, you need a letterbox layer but this will not get copied properly on IMPORT MENU & will need to be added manually (fixed in build 3.0 (12) which is a beta)

It's not really complicated, just a very steep learning curve. The tool is incredibly powerful & you need to learn the format layout really. Once you know what you can & cannot do you will be okay.
Video_TS should be written in DVD-Lab Pro 2.5 PS version and turning the Abstraction Layer off at compile. I can help you with templates for this application.

neil wilkes said:

Please send me your email address again - there is a lovely little utility I have for getting your ISO image created.
There are other options too, such as IMGBurn.
FORMAT outputs - if you have your project folder set up correctly - the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders to the IMAGE subfolder in the project, along with all thew IFO & NAV layout data. Unless you have done something such as formatting in PTP mode then you will have used OTP and will have Layer 0 bigger than Layer 1. No problems there - simply run up IMGBurn (or my little utility) in EZ Pick mode, and tell it you want to make folders into ISO images. Point it at the AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folders in (Projectname)/IMAGE and set your info, follow the prompts to set a Layer Break if doing DVD9 (you will have set this in DAC already, or it will not compile) or just follow the prompts if doing DVD5. That will get you a playable disc. Replication Master should never be a playable disc, but either DLT or DDP. For DDP you will need GEAR Pro Mastering Edition - it will do the job for you, and do it properly. Hardest part there is again setting the layer break. I can help you with that though.
IMAGER is useless to you unless creating replication masters to DLT or SCSI HDD (this would have to be a hot-pluggable thing, as the process formats the HDD to a special type) which is pointless as no replication plant will accept them these days (and fewer & fewer will accept DLT2000 (Type III and Type III/XT) which is all you used to need - these days it is all DDP images)

Creating disc in GPME.
1 - Create new DVD-Audio project
2 - Import Audio_TS files from prompt. (should be located in <X>:/<projectname>/IMAGE)
3 - Import Video_TS files from Prompt. (should be located in <X>:/<projectname>/IMAGE)
(3a - Set Layer Break if DVD9)
4 - Burn disc.
It really is that easy.

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Unfortunately, it is not so easy. The fact is that GPME failed to create an iso image directly from Audio_TS and Video_TS in my project/IMAGE folder.
I have not yet understood it in detail but it seems to me that the DAC’s 3.0.5 FORMAT does not create ifo files correctly. It places additional files with navigation data into IMAGE folder. Then probably IMAGER would be to create a disk image, using these data.
Alas IMAGER was useless to me, you know.
That's why I had to use imagebuild.exe and then GPME.
If your "lovely little utility" is able to read navigation data from these additional files, then I’d like to try it.

neil wilkes said:

Easiest way to do a single stream project is in DAC for me.
Import Audio using that tool.
Op-en Command Edit, add right number of audio tracks.
Import the audio to each by importing the XML.
Set Continuous playback for AOB & ASVU
Set to autoplay Disc, not menu.
Turn return to menu off.
Save project
Compile using FORMAT - done. With a 10-track MLP file the process takes about an hour all told and is far more player friendly than Chrome's output.
You will never use Chrome again once you realise how easy a basic no visual disc is in DAC.

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I prefer Chrome because a feature of my single-stream projects is repeated replacement of identical audio files. Chrome has such option, at the same time it saves trackpoints previously set. With DAC I would have to reinstall all the data manually when importing audio. I think in my particular case, the path is shorter.
1. open my existing project and replace audio files.
2. compile the project to Dim (this is the same as iso).
3. burn my DVD.
That's all.
Of course, for all other purposes DAC would be preferable because of its endless possibilities.

neil wilkes said:

It will be interesting to find out how much DAC 3.0.5 will not do - if you are feeling brave I have a reg file for the spec book update that may or may not work for your version.
You can safely ignore the VTSM is not allowed warning, but any other spec violations should not be ignored out of hand, as some replication plants will fail the image set if Eclipse catches an error (as they should).
Trouble is not all Eclipse errors are correctly flagged....will 3.0.5 do PGC Block authoring, do you know? (Surround & Stereo in the same group)

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Yes, I'm feeling brave. As a first step I could to backup my registry and then try your reg file. But the problem is how to find out what DAC 3.0.5 will not do, in fact, my projects are not too complex or varied.

P.S. Isn't it time to start a new thread to discuss Sonic's DAC? Now we are so far from initial "Problems with Imported Video_TS in DiscWelder Chrome" I think.