Hey CD-4 cartridge experts!

I'm trying to find the best cartridge for CD-4. Currently, I have a Signet cartridge with an almost new AT12S. It works pretty well, but I still feel like I could do better.

So should I splurge on an AT15/20 type cart or a Pickering XUV D4500Q? Or maybe something off the beaten path like a B&O MMC 6000 or a Denon DL-103S (which would probably need a re-tip)?

What's going to do the best job at getting me where I need to go? I was hoping that this issue would be moot with the Lou Dorren project, but obviously that's not happening any time soon.

I have an AT12S and an AT440mla. I've had better luck with the AT440mla and the sound is a bit more detailed, too.

I'm interested in the best that I can get. I'm sure the 440MLa is good, but I'm not sure it's the best.

I like the AT-20SLa Cartridge, fitted with ATN-20SS stylus in my SME Series III arm (low mass).
(using low capacitance cable, not the original supplied by SME).
It is a relatively high compliance cartridge so bear that in mind.

I have two AT-14Sa Audio-Technicas and 2 Ortofon moving coil MC 20's w/pre-pre amp w/CD-4 setting. I prefer Ortofon, even their moving magnet cartridges. For years, I was the Pickering rep. I would avoid Pickering and Stanton, which is the same thing, for CD-4.

Ortofon makes cutting heads. which are used in the manufacture of LP's. That expertise is apparent in the sound of their cartridges. AT is better than most in many way, but Ortofon is more open and real.

As in all things audio, the "best" is open to individual preferences.

The best cartridges, or what were considered the best of the quad era were the Pickering XUV -4500Q, Empire 4000D series, AT 20s and 15s, and there was the B&O 6000 which, while not appearing to offer much spec.-wise, impressed people with its sound. Even the lesser AT cartridges (AT14Sa, AT12S, AT12Sa) offered great performance for their cost.

And then there were the Panasonic strain gauge cartridges which were/are considered fine cartridges too. In fact, they command rather considerable prices in today's market.

I have compared the AT440MLa to almost all of the best vintage CD-4 cartridges and I can say it is right up there with all of them and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Perhaps not quite as much bass as, say, the Empires but the difference is not that great. It still sounds wonderful with quadradiscs.

Of course, there are those who insist modern moving coil cartridges with line contact styli are the best for CD-4 too. I haven't heard them, so I can't comment, but I don't doubt they sound wonderful.

So, it's difficult to say, "Get X" and be done with it. Any of the above cartridges will perform well with CD-4.

Doug

I now have an AT-14SA cart but the stylus is bent (was shipped without the needle guard down - duh). I was assured the cartridge is functional but finding a shibata stylus for under $100 is a challenge. Probably my best bet is to return it, and the seller is offering a full refund, but would appreciate any other advice. I bought it for $68 including shipping.
Mike

I would keep your eyes open for a stylus as you won't do CD4 much cheaper than that. I was really lucky to find a strain gauge cartridge on a changer for $25 and a replacement stylus for about $60, but then I had to get a different demogitator. CD4 playback is one place you can't cheap out unless you have horseshoes stored somewhere personal. And as to the bent stylus, sometimes the guard moves up on its own in transit, my 4MD-20X was the same way and the styli are well over $100.

Circular Vibes said:

I would keep your eyes open for a stylus as you won't do CD4 much cheaper than that. I was really lucky to find a strain gauge cartridge on a changer for $25 and a replacement stylus for about $60, but then I had to get a different demogitator. CD4 playback is one place you can't cheap out unless you have horseshoes stored somewhere personal. And as to the bent stylus, sometimes the guard moves up on its own in transit, my 4MD-20X was the same way and the styli are well over $100.

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So that is the dilemma, pay another $100 or more for a stylus and maybe have a good cart, or find an AT440MLA/B for $200 and get something that apparently works well.

If you can buy the AT440MLA/B for $200, go for it. You will be assured of OEM styli for some time. Where I am, I can't get that kind of deal. They are usually closer to $300 and styli are over $200. I understand that you can save a few bux by finding a used AT150MLX body and use a 440MLB stylus on it. Whatever way you go, Audio Technica makes decent, capable cartridges. I have seen deals on Amazon where you can get two styli in a package deal with the cart, but they won't ship over the border for me, so I stay vintage for now. Let us know which way you go. You might also consider keeping the cartridge and watching ePay for replacements that may come up at a steal.

Well, after several eBay attempts to pick up a decent cart at a decent price, I finally broke down and ordered the 440MLB off The big river store for $199 delivered with two day shipping. Prices swing between $299 and $199 frequently, so wait for the lower price if you decide to take the plunge. I used a reputable third party seller and avoided the sales tax.

I did just miss an AT-15SA for $124 on fleabay this morning, and it looked like new, but am consoling myself with the fact that the one I bought IS new and not 40 years old.

IMHO you did the right thing. I have the AT440MLa & an AT12Sa. I much prefer the 440 because the 12Sa is worn. I got it for 70 bucks, so I'm not too disappointed in it. I can get a JICO stylus for $144 IIRC. But I won't need to do that for quite some time. I still might get a 15Sa or a 20SLa, but probably not, as they are a crap-shoot. For something that old, it is what it is.

Banjo800 said:

IMHO you did the right thing. I have the AT440MLa & an AT12Sa. I much prefer the 440 because the 12Sa is worn. I got it for 70 bucks, so I'm not too disappointed in it. I can get a JICO stylus for $144 IIRC. But I won't need to do that for quite some time. I still might get a 15Sa or a 20SLa, but probably not, as they are a crap-shoot. For something that old, it is what it is.

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So, I am still using the REGA RP-1 with the AT440 MLB and it does work fine for CD-4. I do get a lot of noise/hum through my Sansui QRX receiver, more so on CD-4 than on SQ or QS, and I wonder if it's because the Rega has no dedicated ground wire. So, I just picked up a 1229Q off ebay with a Stanton 681 EEE "calibration standard" cart that supposedly is in great working condition. I needed another turntable anyway so I could have one dedicated to quad and one for all my other LPs. If equipped with a Jico Shibata, I assume the Stanton could also play CD-4. Curious if anyone is aware of this combo. I do see that Stanton/Pickering seems to be a polarizing cart brand on this forum and others. It is supposedly a pretty common match for the 1229Q and I love the idea of the brush before the stylus. I will try it on a few of my older LPs and see how it does on matrix, and also if it will work for CD-4 as is, after I inspect the condition of the needle.

I have not had any luck in getting my Stanton 681EEE to work for CD-4. It just hasn't the frequency response needed. But, I prefer it above all my others for stereo or matrix. Outstanding!

And grounding it will probably rid you of the hum. I have three TT's, a Sansui FR-5080, a Dual 1249, and even a Realistic LAB-100. They all must be grounded when connected to my QRX-8001 (and 7001 before that) or it buzzes loudly.

Banjo800 said:

I have not had any luck in getting my Stanton 681EEE to work for CD-4. It just hasn't the frequency response needed. But, I prefer it above all my others for stereo or matrix. Outstanding!

And grounding it will probably rid you of the hum. I have three TT's, a Sansui FR-5080, a Dual 1249, and even a Realistic LAB-100. They all must be grounded when connected to my QRX-8001 (and 7001 before that) or it buzzes loudly.

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I agree with you about the Stanton for CD-4 playback. I have an 881S which uses a fine-line stylus, versus the elliptical of the 681EEE, and it is not at all suitable for CD-4. As I recall, even their so-called CD-4 cartridges weren't that great. Nice sound for stereo playback though.

Grounding a Rega tonearm is not that easy because of the way it is internally-wired. My CD-4 turntable is a P3-24, and I rewired the tonearm with a low-capacitance Incognito kit, which uses a proper ground wire. It works great now. My cartridge is an Audio Technica AT15Sa.

Quadzilla said:

I agree with you about the Stanton for CD-4 playback. I have an 881S which uses a fine-line stylus, versus the elliptical of the 681EEE, and it is not at all suitable for CD-4. As I recall, even their so-called CD-4 cartridges weren't that great. Nice sound for stereo playback though.

Grounding a Rega tonearm is not that easy because of the way it is internally-wired. My CD-4 turntable is a P3-24, and I rewired the tonearm with a low-capacitance Incognito kit, which uses a proper ground wire. It works great now. My cartridge is an Audio Technica AT15Sa.

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Well. I will repost after I get the turntable and hook it up. Maybe I put the 440 on the Dual and the Stanton on the Rega...

Wow -- I started this thread four years ago.

Not long after this post, I scored a used Audio Technica AT-15Sa. I also found a NOS ATN20SS, but thankfully the used stylus that came with the 15Sa does just as well, so the 20SS is my spare.

bangsezmax said:

Wow -- I started this thread four years ago.

Not long after this post, I scored a used Audio Technica AT-15Sa. I also found a NOS ATN20SS, but thankfully the used stylus that came with the 15Sa does just as well, so the 20SS is my spare.

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And "time" moves on...........

I put one of these on my turntable. I haven't tried it with CD-4 yet.
https://www.ortofon.com/x5-mc-p-630

scifi said:

I put one of these on my turntable. I haven't tried it with CD-4 yet.
https://www.ortofon.com/x5-mc-p-630

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The problem with most "high output" moving coil cartridges is that the output isn't really that high compared to magnetic cartridges. At 2.0 mV output, it isn't likely enough for a CD-4 demodulator, even with the gain adjustment cranked to its maximum. It won't hurt to try it, but my guess is that it won't change your world in any meaningful way. I have a Denon DL-160 that I tried (briefly) for CD-4 playback, and at 1.6 mV it isn't near enough output for the demodulator.