INVOLVE - COMING NEW TECHNOLOGY

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hi. All
I was just thinking why no body as yet have got in contact with some of the Japanese Audio web site who are still into CD-4 Surround Music & informed them of what Chucky and his team are about to embark on with a new CD-4 Decoder ???????????? I believe that the Japanese where one of the biggest followers of CD-4 in it hay days.
 
Hi Inkubuz

You have 2 choices, if you want the existing series we could send to you in say 2 weeks. Only issue with these is the mechanicals are not 100% to our liking (heatsink arrangement and front knob is a bit sticky, also I am hoping to supply with new flat ribbon speaker cable and connectors).

The new series has been designed and just delayed for some additional production funding in October + assembly so say Xmas time.

Please advise you preference and apologies for the delay.......we mean well!

Regards

Chucky

Hi Chuky, any new developments on the Y4, any estimated shipping dates?
 
oh, I will wait for the best product available for sure, i was just wondering since there were no new udpdates on the indiegogo page
 
Hi Chucky - we don't seem to have heard much in the past year on what if any progress there's been on the Surround Pre-Amp. A lot of interesting ideas were kicked around in this thread some months back and I know you said you were keen to get on with it so it would be interesting to hear what the state of play was. Thanks.
PS
How is your knee now?
 
Hi Soundfield

Believe it or not Ohverture (Dave the Bitch) has started but he has been interrupted by a side project of the "expanze" electrostatic stereo system but he says he will be finished in a day or so. So in theory he will restart the pre amp later this week......true lies!

In regard to my knobbly knee, all is fine. I had the operation on 23 March and apart from severe post operative fluid build up I had an extremely rapid recovery. The knee feels like a real one. I really recommend 2 things:

1 Stop running!!!

2 If your knees are trashed get a couple of opinions as 3 of my opinions said I needed a full knee replacement (on both legs), one opinion said a partial on one leg and wait on the other. The result has been a way faster recovery, lower cost, smaller scar and it feels normal. I completely ignored the quacks advice and did no physiotherapy as I do not want to be told what to do by a 25 year old kid who has never had any real injuries them selves, result was a full recovery in half the normal time (I have had so many biking, weightlifting injuries that I know what to do- hint get on painkillers and you move the joint to the point of pain frequently. Its easy stuff).

Regards

Chucky

Hi Chucky - we don't seem to have heard much in the past year on what if any progress there's been on the Surround Pre-Amp. A lot of interesting ideas were kicked around in this thread some months back and I know you said you were keen to get on with it so it would be interesting to hear what the state of play was. Thanks.
PS
How is your knee now?
 
Hi Soundfield

Believe it or not Ohverture (Dave the Bitch) has started but he has been interrupted by a side project of the "expanze" electrostatic stereo system but he says he will be finished in a day or so. So in theory he will restart the pre amp later this week......true lies!

In regard to my knobbly knee, all is fine. I had the operation on 23 March and apart from severe post operative fluid build up I had an extremely rapid recovery.

Good news on both counts Chucky.
Please keep us informed on Pre-Amp progress, I have an urgent need for this thing!
A friend of mine had a partial replacement last week and is currently in a lot of pain - so it's good to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Cheers,
Soundfield.
 
Hi Soundfield

I am the same as you as this would be my dream bit of audio gear. All of my speakers are fully active (Nakamichi Dragon Electrostatic Hybrids - I designed them) and so a surround preamp would suit me perfectly. It really is an issue of lack of a large design team.

Sorry to hear your mate is in pain as I had no pain in fact I l knocked back pain killers as I was not in pain (I am a very bad patient). I had the partial knee replacement with the MAKO robot guided system. Its way more accurate and leaves a much smaller scar. Could you ask your mate if he had it with the robot or not?

Regards

Hop along Chucky



Good news on both counts Chucky.
Please keep us informed on Pre-Amp progress, I have an urgent need for this thing!
A friend of mine had a partial replacement last week and is currently in a lot of pain - so it's good to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Cheers,
Soundfield.
 
Hi Soundfield

I am the same as you as this would be my dream bit of audio gear. All of my speakers are fully active (Nakamichi Dragon Electrostatic Hybrids - I designed them) and so a surround preamp would suit me perfectly. It really is an issue of lack of a large design team.

Sorry to hear your mate is in pain as I had no pain in fact I l knocked back pain killers as I was not in pain (I am a very bad patient). I had the partial knee replacement with the MAKO robot guided system. Its way more accurate and leaves a much smaller scar. Could you ask your mate if he had it with the robot or not?

Regards

Hop along Chucky

Hi Chucky - yes, I really need this device to unify my system and rationalise my rat's nest of cables and put all the switching and processing in one place, so please don't make us wait too much longer!
My friend didn't have the robotic surgery, it's not very common in the UK as far as I know (and certainly not on the NHS) but he doesn't have private insurance so wouldn't have been able to afford it anyway. He's been a bit concerned as there are apparently several people who attend his follow up clinic who are still in pain months after their op (although there are also those who like you, have had little pain at all - but I'm not sure what determines what outcome you get!)
Cheers,
Soundfield.
 
Greetings all! It's your friendly neighbourhood pirate here.

It looks like I'll be moving back into the Preamp Pro development, so thought I'd check in with everyone and get a bit of an updated wish-list to consider and research the viability of. This can be a wet dream list. No guarantees it all makes the cut, but it's worth discussing, since the QQ members have been good to us, and have good advice.

So far we have

*Switch between 2 / 4 / 5 channel out, with 2 woofer outputs switchable between front/back and left/right woofer. (maybe 4 woofer output?)
*Stereo / Involve decode / (I know y'all will want the SQ decode in there as well - while it's not the focus of the unit, this may become a hidden feature for QQ forum members) / - do we want multi-channel passthrough from HDMI? Thoughts?
*CD-4?
*Per channel level control
*Woofer crossover point - trying to decide between a selection of three points(50, 80, 120) or something more granular.

Is there any call for per-channel lowpass and/or highpass? Per-channel EQ might be doable, but is there any call for it? can we get away with just full-range preamped outputs and let people's amps / speakers do the work there? Pondering.

Inputs / RCA stereo in x .....2? 3?
Do we want balanced / unbalanced inputs or both?
Do we want isolation transformers?
Optical / Toslink
Bluetooth - is there any call for bluetooth in this format? I'd like it, myself. It's not a quality input but it's ubiquitous in ubiquitous sources i.e. phones.
USB - a usb playback port. Personal opinion is that unless it does lossless formats, there's little advantage over just using bluetooth or a wire to a phone / pmp. And lossless playback is not cheap to achieve that way. Still, we don't have a price point yet so I'll be looking into it.
HDMI - 3 in one out?
Network media playback. Wired? Wireless? I'll investigate the possibility, but given that dedicated network players are expensive, and need constant updating / maintenance, it might not be worthwhile trying.

Other options:
Some form of selectable audio delay for a/v sync. Especially with 4K tv at the moment, processing times have increased.
Touch screen interface panel
Remote Control. Do we want all functions available on the remote?
Standby mode.
Lots of blue leds because let's face it, they sound better.
Level output display (V meter / Level Meter)?
Vectorscope display?

Anyway, bring it on. Also, how much would you pay for your wet dream list of specs?

Peace, love and multiple channels.
~David (The Bitch)
 
At least for me : balanced inputs and outputs with separate volume control.
Crossover at 3 frequencies is enough (but fine tuning would be better)
Remote and blue lights :smokin
No need for digital : a full analog preamp with quad and high quality balanced in/out is all I need, but it's me...
Take the Parasound P7 and just add quad, it would be marvelous for me. But I know, I'm not alone...
(you'd know at least what I would pay for it : about the same as the P7 if sound quality is quite as good)
 
Hi Dave – glad you got some time to work on this project, I’m very keen to see this come to fruition. In response to your particular questions:

*Switch between 2 / 4 / 5 channel out?
>YES

*with 2 woofer outputs switchable between front/back and left/right woofer. (maybe 4 woofer output?)
>NOT BOTHERED (I’M NOT A GREAT FAN OF SUB-WOOFERS AND WOULD HAVE NO USE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THESE OPTIONS)

*Stereo / Involve decode / (I know y'all will want the SQ decode in there as well - while it's not the focus of the unit, this may become a hidden feature for QQ forum members)
>YES, ALL ESSENTIAL OF COURSE! (I’D ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT THE PREAMP WOULD EFFECTIVELY HOUSE THE EXISTING SM MODULE AS ITS HEART, SO YOUR ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT COSTS HERE WOULD BE MINIMISED)

*do we want multi-channel pass-through from HDMI? Thoughts?
>NOT BOTHERED (NOT SOMETHING I’D USE)

*CD-4?
>NO – THIS WOULD ADD HUGELY TO YOUR DEVELOPMENT COSTS AND TO THE RETAIL PRICE. EVEN ON THIS RATHER SPECIALISED FORUM THE INTEREST IN SUCH A FACILITY CAN ONLY BEST DESCRIBED AS ‘NICHE’ (!) – IT WOULD MEAN LESS THAN NOTHING TO THE WIDER MARKET.

*Per channel level control
>PARTIALLY – INDIVUALLY LEVEL CONTROLS CAN BE A BIT FIDDLY, I’D BE QUITE HAPPY WITH A MASTER VOLUME CONTROL AND LEFT/RIGHT, FRONT/REAR BALANCE CONTROLS.

*Woofer crossover point - trying to decide between a selection of three points(50, 80, 120) or something more granular.
>NOT BOTHERED (SEE ABOVE)

*Is there any call for per-channel lowpass and/or highpass? Per-channel EQ might be doable, but is there any call for it? can we get away with just full-range preamped outputs and let people's amps / speakers do the work there? Pondering.
>NO CALL FOR IT FROM ME. JUST PROVIDE A HIGH QUALITY FULL RANGE OUTPUT.

*Inputs / RCA stereo in x .....2? 3?
> AT LEAST 4 RCA LINE LEVEL INPUTS. A STEREO TAPE MONIOR LOOP WOULD ALSO BE USEFUL (I HAVE A STUDIO USB RECORDER DECK I’D LIKE TO ACCOMMODATE). A DEDICATED PHONO INPUT WOULD BE NICE BUT MAY ADD TO THE PRICE TOO MUCH AND MIGHT NOT BE PARTULARLY VALUED BY THE MARKET (THOSE IN THE NEED OF SUCH A FACLITY COULD ALWAYS USE AN EXTERNAL PHONO AMP).

*Do we want balanced / unbalanced inputs or both?
> UNBALANCED ONLY FOR THE CONSUMER MARKET. I ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS OF EQUIPMENT WITH BALANCED I/O (INCLUDING THE USB RECORDER) – BUT THE COST TO DUPLICATE EVERTHING WOULD SURELY BE PROHIBITIVE (AND MAKE THE UNIT POTENTIALLY RATHER LARGE). PERHAPS YOU MIGHT WANT TO DO A PURELY BALANCED VERSION FOR THE PROFESSIONAL MARKET.

*Do we want isolation transformers?
>NO, WE DON’T.

*Optical / Toslink
>YES, AT LEAST ONE OF EACH TYPE OF INPUT.

*Bluetooth - is there any call for bluetooth in this format? I'd like it, myself. It's not a quality input but it's ubiquitous in ubiquitous sources i.e. phones.
>NO CALL FOR IT FROM ME FOR THE REASON YOU STATE.

*USB - a usb playback port. Personal opinion is that unless it does lossless formats, there's little advantage over just using bluetooth or a wire to a phone / pmp. And lossless playback is not cheap to achieve that way. Still, we don't have a price point yet so I'll be looking into it.
>NO, DON’T TRY AND TURN THIS INTO A MEDIA PLAYER.

*HDMI - 3 in one out?
>YES, SEEMS USEFUL.

*Network media playback. Wired? Wireless? I'll investigate the possibility, but given that dedicated network players are expensive, and need constant updating / maintenance, it might not be worthwhile trying.
>NO, DON’T TRY AND TURN THIS INTO A MEDIA PLAYER (I ENDORSE YOUR CONCERNS).

Other options:
*Some form of selectable audio delay for a/v sync. Especially with 4K tv at the moment, processing times have increased.
>YES, NOT ESSENTIAL, BUT COULD BE USEFUL. ON THE SUBJECT OF DELAY, IT WOULD BE OF MORE USE TO ME TO HAVE AN ADJSTABLE DELAY ON THE REAR CHANNEL OUTPUTS TO ADJUST FOR ROOM SIZE/ SPEAKER LOCATION/ SEATING POSITION.

*Touch screen interface panel
>NOT BOTHERED (PARTICULARLY IF IT ADDS TO THE COST).

*Remote Control. Do we want all functions available on the remote?
>YES TO REMOTE CONTOL, BUT KEEP IT SIMPLE – JUST THE THINGS YOU REGULARLY NEED TO ADJUST FROM YOUR LISTENING POSITION – NOT MUCH MORE THAN VOLUME (INCLUDING MUTE) AND SOURCE SELECT.

*Standby mode.
>NOT REALLY SURE WHAT YOU HAD IN MIND HERE – AS LONG AS THE UNIT REMEMBERS THE PREVIOUS SELECTIONS / SETTINGS ON POWER UP ALL YOU NEED IS ON / OFF I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.

*Lots of blue leds because let's face it, they sound better.
>IF YOU MUST – BUT ONLY AS LONG AS YOU CAN DIM / SWITCH THE DAMN DISTRACTING THINGS OFF!

*Level output display (V meter / Level Meter)?
>YES, GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION OF ANALOGUE VU METERS IS OBVIOUSLY ESSENTIAL!

*Vectorscope display?
>YES, CLEARLY ANOTHER ESSENTIAL (!). IDEALLY THIS WOULD ALSO BE AVAILABLE AS AN HDMI OUTPUT SO COULD YOU SHOW IT ON A LARGE SCREEN DISPLAY – HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE?!!

*Anyway, bring it on. Also, how much would you pay for your wet dream list of specs?
> I’D HAPPILY PAY (STERLING)£2K FOR THIS, MAYBE MORE IF YOU CONVINCE ME IT’S REALLY GOOD!

Good luck with the development, it’s quite a task. Keep us informed of progress / ideas. Many thanks for ‘involving’ (!) us.
Cheers,
Soundfield.
 
Last edited:
Hi Dave,

This is the way to market, ask what we want!

How would I use it: I would put the new Decoder between my Universal Player (it can also stream FLACs) & the Amp and connect via HDMI, eventually I'd add a Media player/PC for streaming FLACs from my NAS Drive, again connected via HDMI. I'd want to connect to my Turntable to do SQ, and possibly the DAT recorder, I've a stereo reel-to-reel I'd like to connect to it as well. So analogue inputs with a selector switch. I'd also like to connect the analogue multichannel outputs to a multi-channel ADC to be able to produce multi-channel FLACs to store on the NAS.

*Switch between 2 / 4 / 5 channel out, Yes

with 2 woofer outputs switchable between front/back and left/right woofer. (maybe 4 woofer output?) I've no LFEs I use Full-range Floorstanders all round, so not bothered
*Stereo / Involve decode / (I know y'all will want the SQ decode in there as well - while it's not the focus of the unit, this may become a hidden feature for QQ forum members) Yes + SQ! / - do we want multi-channel passthrough from HDMI? Yes Thoughts?
*CD-4? Not for me.
*Per channel level control Only Front & Rear would be OK by me
*Woofer crossover point - trying to decide between a selection of three points(50, 80, 120) or something more granular. I'd want a no Woofer/LFE switch

Is there any call for per-channel lowpass and/or highpass? Per-channel EQ might be doable, but is there any call for it? can we get away with just full-range preamped outputs and let people's amps / speakers do the work there? Pondering. Just pre-amp outputs

Inputs / RCA stereo in x .....2? 3? TT + 3 RCA stereo line ins.
Do we want balanced / unbalanced inputs or both? Unbalanced, none of my equipment has balanced I/O
Do we want isolation transformers? No
Optical / Toslink If there was one I could hook my DAT up to the unit
Bluetooth - is there any call for bluetooth in this format? I'd like it, myself. It's not a quality input but it's ubiquitous in ubiquitous sources i.e. phones. Not for me
USB - a usb playback port. Personal opinion is that unless it does lossless formats, there's little advantage over just using bluetooth or a wire to a phone / pmp. And lossless playback is not cheap to achieve that way. Still, we don't have a price point yet so I'll be looking into it. Not bothered
HDMI - 3 in one out? Yes that would be good.
Network media playback. Wired? Wireless? I'll investigate the possibility, but given that dedicated network players are expensive, and need constant updating / maintenance, it might not be worthwhile trying. Don't bother, way too much hassle, HDMI is awkward enough!

Other options:
Some form of selectable audio delay for a/v sync. Especially with 4K tv at the moment, processing times have increased. Might well be handy to have
Touch screen interface panel Not bothered, I don't have dainty fingers!
Remote Control. Do we want all functions available on the remote? Definitely Source Switching, output format & Decode modes, Front & Rear levels would be useful as you can do the adjustment from your seat, or am I being lazy?
Standby mode. Maybe, but EU Regs do call for it I think
Lots of blue leds because let's face it, they sound better. Yes the higher frequency of the Blue light doesn't get quantum entangled with the audio electrons :) :ugham:
Level output display (V meter / Level Meter)? Yes definitely, they're like Catnip to me!
Vectorscope display? Maybe

Anyway, bring it on. Also, how much would you pay for your wet dream list of specs? Ok thats the difficult one, you've got to make a profit! Around £1000 is probably it. We'll have to pay import duty/VAT when it gets to the UK, so that'll add at least 20% to the cost.
 
Hallo Dave,

I´ve just posted my remakes behind your questions in colour. Hope some of these will find their way into the finished design :smokin
Regards and happy designing
Charles


So far we have

*Switch between 2 / 4 / 5 channel out, with 2 woofer outputs switchable between front/back and left/right woofer. (maybe 4 woofer output?) YES
*Stereo / Involve decode / (I know y'all will want the SQ decode in there as well - while it's not the focus of the unit, this may become a hidden feature for QQ forum members) / - do we want multi-channel passthrough from HDMI? Thoughts? YES
*CD-4? PERHAPS AS AN ADD-ON
*Per channel level control NOT FOR ME - TOO MUCH BLINK-BLINK
*Woofer crossover point - trying to decide between a selection of three points(50, 80, 120) or something more granular. NOT FOR ME

Is there any call for per-channel lowpass and/or highpass? Per-channel EQ might be doable, but is there any call for it? can we get away with just full-range preamped outputs and let people's amps / speakers do the work there? Pondering. NOT FOR ME

Inputs / RCA stereo in x .....2? 3? 3 SHOULD BE ENOUGH
Do we want balanced / unbalanced inputs or both? UNBALANCED IS OK TO ME
Do we want isolation transformers? NO THANKS
Optical / Toslink TOSLINK
Bluetooth - is there any call for bluetooth in this format? I'd like it, myself. It's not a quality input but it's ubiquitous in ubiquitous sources i.e. phones. NOTHING I NEED
USB - a usb playback port. Personal opinion is that unless it does lossless formats, there's little advantage over just using bluetooth or a wire to a phone / pmp. And lossless playback is not cheap to achieve that way. Still, we don't have a price point yet so I'll be looking into it.
HDMI - 3 in one out? LOVELY
Network media playback. Wired? Wireless? I'll investigate the possibility, but given that dedicated network players are expensive, and need constant updating / maintenance, it might not be worthwhile trying. WIRED

Other options:
Some form of selectable audio delay for a/v sync. Especially with 4K tv at the moment, processing times have increased. NICE FEATURE
Touch screen interface panel THINK OF THE COSTS AND RESULTING PRICE OF THE PREAMP!
Remote Control. Do we want all functions available on the remote? YES
Standby mode.YES
Lots of blue leds because let's face it, they sound better.
Level output display (V meter / Level Meter)?
Vectorscope display?

Anyway, bring it on. Also, how much would you pay for your wet dream list of specs? I´D BE PREPARED TO SPEND UP TO 2000€/$/GBP FOR SUCH A BEAUTY

Peace, love and multiple channels.
~David (The Bitch)[/QUOTE]
 
I claim this is surround if you buy 2 sets!

Back in 2007 we won the CES show prize for design innovation for Nakamichi for the dragon hybrid electrostatic loudspeaker (got 2 sets at home myself), see below:

1545367987943.png


Bit of a sad story really, Naka's parent company the Grande group had a $600 Million dollar loss and cut the budget on the project and intimately the project was stopped .........can tell you more but I do not want to depress you.

The unit was very expensive at $9000 and a misery to make. We have redesigned and improved many aspects of this into a studio monitor package. Suffice to say it has dual 100 W transistor amplifiers, is active and uses a weird dual 8 inch woofer configuration built into an acoustic filter. In short we will be exhibiting the thing in the NAMM show in January:

Here is a sneak preview:

DSM Studio Monitor V1.36.jpg


Not sure of the price yet but it will be very competitive in the monitor market!!

Regards

Chucky
 
Dear All

Looks like I am flying off to LA on Wednesday to be at the NAMM show (would love to meet you guys there), we will be demoing the Y4 system, exhibiting Involve format surround encoder, show the (not working yet) new surround master and demoing the new studio monitor hybrid electrostatic loudspeaker. Big Max an Lil ol me got the thing together today and it sounds very much like the old Nakamichi dragon speaker we designed back in 2007. Currently its a few db down from its final target but that will take a while to adjust.

The really uncanny thing about it and it will be a shock to those experienced in electrostatics is that it is a virtual omnipole with a flat frequency response in a +/- 120 arc from the central axis! Given that all previous electrostatics radiate like a torch this is really weird stuff.
IMG_20190118_153727__1547816485_112.141.53.192.jpg
 
Back
Top