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Thread: QS albums

  1. #1
    4x4audio
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    Default QS albums


    All that I am able to find is SQ albums, so where is this QS format that I am looking for?
    My Sansui QRX 7500 is ready to go for the QS format, but I just never seem to find anything,
    and I have been all over ebay for months.
    They did make QS albums, right??

    Chris A
    Seattle



  2. #2
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Aside from a few A&M albums (Baez, Carpenters), most of the popular titles released in QS are from the ABC/Dunhill family of labels. These titles were released on the exclusive COMMAND QUADRAPHONIC label. There are some good titles, 3 by Steely Dan, 4 Jim Croce's, a Joe Walsh among others. Project 3 also had some QS's, but aside from the classicals on Turnabout, I can't think of any more off the top on my head. The debate still rages about the "secret" Capital QS releases!

    I am sure that there are a few more that I am forgetting about.

    :-jon

    :-jon

  3. #3
    The Real Thing Cai Campbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Hey, since you're in Seattle, head over to Golden Oldies and ask to see their quad section. I was just there today and they have a number of QS titles. It's mostly Tony Mottola and Enoch Light, but what the heck.

    After that, go to Bop Street records in Ballard and ask to see their quad section. I was there today as well and they have a few QS titles.

    The thing to keep in mind is that QS was not always labeled as such. Sansui did not require royalties unless you actually wanted to use their logo. As a result, many record companies came up with their own terminology:

    Command Quadraphonic
    Compatible Quadraphonic
    RM or Regular Matrix
    Matrix Compatible

    Ugh, I'm drawing a blank. Lots of different terminology was used in place of QS. Help me out guys!



  4. #4
    4x4audio
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    Default Re: QS albums


    So Jon,
    As I am fairly new to the quad thing.... tell me if I only have my Sansui QRX 7500, am I at a loss
    without an SQ decoder? What am I left to playback, CD-4? What formats did open reel come in?
    I do have a Teac A 2340RS Quad unit. I still haven't even heard my first true quad playback.

    Chris


  5. #5
    4x4audio
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Cai,

    Thanks, I'll be checking out Bop street and Golden oldies tommorrow.

    Chris

  6. #6
    Moderator The Quadfather's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    There were some quad reel to reel tapes released, but as reel machines were not used as much as turntables, they are hard to find. There were quite a few titles released on CD-4, which was also called Quadradisc. But SQ was by far the most prolific, and for that you need a Tate or if you can't find one, a Lafayette. The QS albums are out there, but are harder to find. Be patient. CD-4 is discrete, so you will hear true quad if you set up your CD-4 system.

    The Quadfather

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    Senior Member quadjoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Don't forget that Vox Productions produced several classical QS Quadraphonic VoxBox sets, I have two Tchaikovsky sets which contain a total of 6 symphonies (3 discs in each set), and a complete Gershwin: All the works for Orchestra & for Piano & Orchestra. If you keep looking you will find them. BTW I just picked up Jim Croce's "Life and Times" in QS on eBay for around $15.00, and I think I saw one on there the other day, so check it out. Also, I have found that QS does a slightly better job of synthesizing quad from stereo sources than SQ does. Be forewarned though, you may get strange results in either format: for example on The Beatles Abbey Road if you play it through your SQ decoder on "Here Comes the Sun," George's vocal almost completely disappears!

  8. #8
    captainwrong
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Old topic, I know, but I though I'd give my 2 cents.

    ABC released a lot of LPs on their jazz subsidary Impules! in QS. Most all I've seen mention it on the inner sleeve, but it's not a big banner like some companys used. In fact, they only released these lps in QS, and, it would seem these are the same masters used for the current cd versions.

    If your taste runs to free jazz (which is mostly what they were putting out at the time) might be worth a look see!



  9. #9
    The Real Thing Cai Campbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    You know, I really, really have to question all these so-called quad releases labeled as being "Quad Compatible", including the ABC stuff (Impulse, Bluesway, etc.)

    All this stuff sounds pretty much like stereo-through-a-quad-decoder to me. I think there is tendency in the quad community to grab any record with "quad" printed on it and place it on a pedestal. I don't buy it.

    Getting back to the ABC stuff, why is it that the stuff that is obviously quad and sounds great in quad has the big ol' "Command Quadraphonic" banner printed on the album cover, while the questionable stuff simply has a tiny "Quad Compatible" blurb? Hmmm?

    I'll tell ya what I think. The stuff labeled "Quad Compatible" was never mixed for quad and is simply marketing spin intended to: a) not scare away the stereo consumer and b) suck the quad consumer into buying the title. I believe these titles are stereo, plain and simple. I own and have listened to many of these titles on numerous occasions through a Sansui QSD-1 decoder and remain soundly unimpressed.

    On a similar note, there is the story of Everest Records releasing a bunch of old blues records with an actual Sansui QS logo on them. These were old blues recordings from the 40's and 50's that were all recorded in MONO! The story goes that Sansui threatened to sue, so they stopped using the QS logo. Whereas ABC might have been misleading, Everest was blatantly lying to the consumer.

    The point I’m trying to make is that you should be careful and not believe everything you read. Also, don’t take something like “Mark Anderson’s Quadraphonic Discography” as gospel. There are many mistakes there. He should re-title the discography as “Mark Anderson’s Discography of Records That Have the Word ‘Quad’ or Some Variation Thereof Printed On Them”.

    I’m not trying to fault Mark. He has put together an excellent resource. It’s just that it would be nice to find out once and for all what the true story is behind all of the questionable quad titles. In the meantime, listen carefully and trust your ears!


  10. #10
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    One weird thing to add to Cai's comments. There actually are Q8's of some of these Impulse titles (BB King, etc). I wonder if these Q8's are very discrete? I may have to bag one off eBay and check it out in Sound Forge.

    As far as those ABC titles go, there were MANY that I remember trying in the '70s and I was never impressed, even through the QS Decoder in my QRX-999, which had the best QS circuitry available at the time.

    Oh yeah, I remember seeing those Everest titles. They did have the real QS logo on them, what a joke. Why would they need that on a mono record.

    :-jon


    :-jon

  11. #11
    700 Club - QQ All Star sspsandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    I have 3 excellent QS records. The Grateful Dead Steal Your Face is a QS only release. The Who Quadraphenia Soundtrack and Tommy movie soundtrack on Polydor are unmarked QS and sound great, especially Love Reign O'er Me. I also picked up a German Polydor release of the original Tommy, and I swear it is also an unmarked QS, it has super separation when played back through an RM decoder circuit (I have no Sansui equipment, but a QSD-1 sounds like a cool item to have). Supposedly, the London Symphony Orchestra version of Tommy is QS also.
    Sandy QpS

  12. #12
    captainwrong
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    Default Re: QS albums


    I hear what you're saying, but I was talking about Impulse albums that specifically say QS or Regular Matrix on the inside. Two that come to mind are Keith Jarrett's "Treasure Island" and Sam River's "Streams".

    Some of those releases probably aren't quad anything, but I know some of them specifically use the designations. Of course that doesn't necessarly mean a thing, but there it is.



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    Default .


    > Supposedly, the London Symphony Orchestra version of Tommy is QS also.

    All pressings?

    I understand there's an issue labeled --or perhaps "stickered"-- as Quad. Mine doesn't even mention Stereo, but the code is SP99001, S for stereo one would guess.
    Pablo Roufogalis L.
    (The Ambiance Pariah)

  14. #14
    The Real Thing Cai Campbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: .


    At least a couple of the BB King releases were true quad ("Guess Who" and "Friends"). They both have the "Command Quadraphonic" banner. I bet the Q8 versions of these are discrete.

    Jon, you do raise a good question. It would be interesting to compare a "Compatible Quadraphonic" release with the corresponding Q8, if available.


  15. #15
    The Real Thing Cai Campbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: QS albums


    I don't believe that any of the ABC affiliated releases (including Impulse and Bluesway) actually used the term "QS" as this would have required royalties being paid to Sansui. As far as I know, ABC only used the "Command Quadraphonic" and "Compatible Quadraphonic" terminology. I don't recall them ever using "RM" or "Regular Matrix" terminology, but perhaps the Japanese versions of those records did so.


  16. #16
    300 Club - QQ All Star Marcsten's Avatar
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    Default Where to start


    WOW! Lots of issues here. First, the japanese BB King on ebay recently showed 'RM' on the ubo, and I saw the photo. It didn't sell as the owner had an opening bid of $100, I believe. On the issue of the old blues qs's, I have the Nat King Cole. Although it is not mono, it isn't much to write home about. I have Larry Clifton's Quad Inc, and it says that Ed. T. Canby who was a quad devotee in the '70s and wrote for, I believe, Audio (?) termed it 'quadramonic'. That's a good name. As far as the 'quad compatible' qs's, I tend to agree with Cai. The problem is that many of the real command quads sucked too, so its hard to generalize. You just have to listen to them and then judge. On the Tommy qs's, I have the Ode LSO Tommy, and it is definitely quad, although not very aggressive. There is a thread in the Q8 section of this list about someone who tried a dts conversion of the Q8 LSO and he felt there was no quad at all. This confuded me, but if Cai is right and there may have been some stereo alls released with the quad label. This was definitely NOT a single inventory quad title. I have seen many stereo versions, and only mine and one other qs version. Mine has stickers on it covering up, I would guess, the stereo markings. It says 'Sansui QS' 'quadraphonic' on the front, the number is QU 89001. The record says 'quadraphonic' on each label, and the run out has the QU 89001 number and says '(QUAD)' on all four sides. I would guess that if yours has the stereo numbers on the disc, you may have gotten hosed. Did I leave anything out?
    Marc

  17. #17
    captainwrong
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    Default Re: QS albums


    Ok, here's what the Keith Jarrett album says on the inside. I was a bit off:

    "This album was mixed by means of the Standard Matrix system for full compatable stereo and quadraphonic reproduction."

    Maybe I saw Standard and read Regular. Oops.

    I'm pretty sure the Sam Rivers LP actually said QS, but I dubbed this record from a friend so I'll have to get in touch with him and get him to read it off to me.

    As for if these are real of fake quad, I'll have to check them out. I've listened to Sun Ra's "Space is the Place" and Dewey Redman's "Ear of the Behearer" (both current cd issues with no mention of quad) and it sounds to me like there is definately stuff going on in the rears that is intentional (voices and specific instruments that stay there.) I could be imagining things, but the effect is nice anyway so I'll take it.



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    Default .


    > Did I leave anything out?

    It is great. Thanks for the info, Marc.
    Pablo Roufogalis L.
    (The Ambiance Pariah)

  19. #19
    tcdriver
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    Default dbx encoded QS records


    Some records manufactured and distributed by THE MOSS MUSIC GROUP, INC. were records sold under the Quadraphonic Turnabout label. Five records that I own include with the liner notes the following statement:

    "This Quadraphonic Record was made using the "SANSUI QS" matrix encoder. Use of the encoding process permits the production of a compatible recording that contains 2-channel stereo and 4-channel quadraphonic programme information without loss in frequency response, dynamic range, etc.

    The compatibility feature of this recording process makes this type of record a good investment for the future. When this record is played through your present stereo system it will be reproduced in improved full fidelity 2-channel stereo sound. With the addition of a decoding amplifier, and two extra speakers to your present stereo system, it will permit you to reproduce the full quadraphonic information on this record."

    I have the following five titles:

    QTV-S 34584 Struss: Also Sprach Zarathustra Saint Louis Symphony Orch.

  20. #20
    tcdriver
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    Default dbx encoded QS records continued


    I have the following five titles:

    QTV-S 34584 Struss: Also Sprach Zarathustra Saint Louis Symphony Orch.; Walter Susskind
    QTV-S 34603 Ravel: Ma Mere L'Oye, Daphnis et Chloe Minnesota Orch.; Skrowaczewski
    QTV-S 34666 Strauss: Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, etc., Cincinnati Sym. Orch.; Schippers
    QTV 34681 Schubert: Symphony No. 9 "The Great" Cincinnati Sym. Orch.; Schippers
    QTV 34718 A Slavonic Festival, Various composers; Saint Louis Sym. Orch.; Slatkin, Susskind

    The original release dates for these record titles were from 1975 to 1978. When first released they used the standard LP format. What is interesting about the five copies I have is that they were reissues released in the early eighties using dbx noise reduction encoding! These records required a dbx decoder to play back properly. The label has the marking under the record number that states "Use only with dbx decoder". The label also features the words "dbx ENCODED DISC" and "QUADRAPHONIC QS STEREO COMPATIBLE". Whereas the standard Turnabout records seemed to use lesser quality record materials, these dbx encoded discs used high quality materials and sold at a premium price.

    The to play back the record one would need to connect the output of the phonograph preamp into a dbx decoder, then take the dbx decoder output and feed it into a QS decoder which then feeds a four channel amplifier. As many of us old-timers remember, dbx encoded records never gained wide popularity. The system was effective in reducing the effects of record surface noise, but, before momentum was gained for this new quieter record process, the Compact Disc arrived, which solved the playback medium noise problem.

    How many other quadraphonic records were released in this format?


  21. #21
    800 Club - QQ All Star AllAroundSurround's Avatar
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    Default Re: dbx encoded QS records continued


    I was into dbx, but never got a hold of a dbx disc/l.p. still have all the dbx decoders. Hows the sound on them ? I almost bought a disc on ebay last week just to try it out but seemed to be a bit high in price for me at the time! jsut wonder what else was available , any thing say, rock type , more than likley not! Seems they are all QS types ?
    Rob
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  22. #22
    The Real Thing Cai Campbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: dbx encoded QS records continued


    Wow, DBX encoded quad records? That's pretty cool! I have a DBX decoder and a few DBX encoded disks, but none that are quadraphonic as well.

    The DBX system works wonders in lowering the noise floor of vinyl on encoded disks. They sound great, but there is something odd about them. It's hard to desribe, but there is almost a "hollow" nature to the playback. It is a very subdued character, but it leaves me feeling agitated after I've listened to it for any length of time.


  23. #23
    800 Club - QQ All Star AllAroundSurround's Avatar
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    Default Re: dbx encoded QS records continued


    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The to play back the record one would need to connect the output of the phonograph preamp into a dbx decoder, then take the dbx decoder output and feed it into a QS decoder which then feeds a four channel amplifier.[/quote]

    Note : the decoder had to have the dbx "DISC" decoder to do this, I don't think or am not sure if it will work in the tape formats:typeII or type I. Some tape decks came with the disc type decoder, Then one could play it thru the qs decoder and go from there: correct?
    Rob
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  24. #24
    Exiled Ex-QQ Lizard Quadzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: dbx encoded QS records continued


    DBX discs are encoded with Type II DBX. Type I was available on a few high end reel to reel tape decks. I have quite a few DBX LPs and I use two 224 units ... for four channels of course. Mike.

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    800 Club - QQ All Star AllAroundSurround's Avatar
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    Default Re: dbx encoded QS records continued


    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>DBX discs are encoded with Type II DBX. Type I was available on a few high end reel to reel tape decks. I have quite a few DBX LPs and I use two 224 units ... for four channels of course. Mike. [/quote]

    So your saying you don't need the dbx disc portion of the decoder, then why is there one!?
    I too use 2 224 and also have 8 channels i/o of typeI in my Tascam/388 Studio 8 and 3 400x for routing signals to and from The TateII and QS1 to the inputs of my soumd card and decoders, encoders and ... well you get the idea!
    So one could record it to digital and play it back to a 224 and then decode it into 4.0 or 5.0,5.1 and make a d.t.s. cdr! Interesting . I'll have to try it! Any one got a disc they want converted ? Let me know!
    Surround Sound All Around Sound

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