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Thread: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

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    700 Club - QQ All Star chucky3042's Avatar
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    Default INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi All

    Just thought I would get a head start as we have sent all the initial Involve SQ/ QS units out and create a new thread for you to put your comments, reviews and suggestions after you receive them.

    Hope to hear from you guys in a day or 3.

    Regards

    Chucky
    Last edited by chucky3042; 08-14-2013 at 12:45 AM.

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    Member Soundfield's Avatar
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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi Chucky - SQSM received at lunchtime here in the UK today, not bad since you only sent it two days ago - many thanks. Won't get the chance to play with it until the weekend unfortunately, but will report back asap.

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    YAY!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Seems as though I might be one of the first to have received their SQSM unit, so just to whet your appetite if you're still waiting, this is what I've got to play with this weekend!:

    smsq.jpg

    Still can't quite believe that some forty years after the production of that Sony SQD-2020 in my Avatar there sits in its place a brand new, state of the art, SQ decoder. I don't imagine that this venture made any commercial sense whatsoever for Involve -so heartfelt thanks to Chucky and the whole team pictured in the enclosure letter for their dedication to this frankly mad project!!

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    Default

    So how many regular Surround Masters have sold? How many SQ versions? Or is this top secret info?

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundfield View Post
    Seems as though I might be one of the first to have received their SQSM unit, so just to whet your appetite if you're still waiting, this is what I've got to play with this weekend!:

    smsq.jpg

    Still can't quite believe that some forty years after the production of that Sony SQD-2020 in my Avatar there sits in its place a brand new, state of the art, SQ decoder. I don't imagine that this venture made any commercial sense whatsoever for Involve -so heartfelt thanks to Chucky and the whole team pictured in the enclosure letter for their dedication to this frankly mad project!!
    Is the group photo in the box autographed ?

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    700 Club - QQ All Star chucky3042's Avatar
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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    The photo is autographed

    Regards

    Chucky

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi Q8

    Sorry about the delay.

    Yep its secret but how does the word lousy grab you. Sales are well below hopes and stores do not understand the product as it is an accessory that fits between the pre and power amp. We are currently redeveloping our range into a more mass market understandable configuration - you know connect to your dvd, connect to your speakers and you are on line.

    I think around 20 SQ units have been sold. We really did the 3 months development work as a thank you to members of this forum.

    Regards

    Chucky

    Quote Originally Posted by Q8 View Post
    So how many regular Surround Masters have sold? How many SQ versions? Or is this top secret info?

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Chucky,

    Have you thought about selling these through eBay or Amazon or some other wider distribution. It must be hard to get the word out on these things.

    It would be nice to see a write up review in Sound & Vision. They are very pro-surround. How about getting them a unit. Ken Richardson at S&V is a real surround proponent, as I recall.
    :-jon

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Quote Originally Posted by JonUrban View Post
    Chucky,

    Have you thought about selling these through eBay or Amazon or some other wider distribution. It must be hard to get the word out on these things.

    It would be nice to see a write up review in Sound & Vision. They are very pro-surround. How about getting them a unit. Ken Richardson at S&V is a real surround proponent, as I recall.
    How about an AVS forum review also?
    " I know more about nothing than anyone!"

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi JonUrban and leave it alone.

    Thanks for suggesting sound and vision - believe it or not we have not done that one yet, we will follow that up.

    Re AVS one kind reviewer wrote a good review but there has been no subsequent interest. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481397/surround-master

    Regards

    Chucky

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Not as much time as I'd have liked playing with the SQSM this weekend but here it is (the bright blue light is the clue to its location) on initial test in an all too cramped corner of my workshop with the old Sony SQD-2020 available for direct comparison:
    SQSM under test.jpg
    First impressions were very favourable with all simple decoding tests passed with flying colours (everything positioned where it should be, no phasiness, smooth transitions around the listener of moving sources) and 'showcase' pieces such as Tubular Bells and DSOTM sounding very impressive and stable in image terms. Lots more to test out (including stacks of 'new', still shrink wrapped LPs that have long awaited this day!) before reaching a more detailed conclusion and of course there's the performance of the QS Involve synthesis facility to check out as well - this might take some time (but with a Bank Holiday comming up in the UK next week, I might find a few hours to immerse myself....!)

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    I have finished my genuflections!....I will be removing my TATE ll 101A from my audio shelf. The review is coming! There are surprising experiences, but if you are waiting , you will not be disappointed. I was able to compare the TATE and the INVOLVE SQ with the push of a few buttons…interesting!
    Dwight

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    I received my Involve SQ today! After a half-sleepless night thanks to a malfunctioning security system smoke detector alarm, this really got my morning going. Too bad i have to go to work today, but it gives me a reason to enjoy the weekend. Not sure what all albums will get to break this in, but my top three are the Mike Oldfield box set, Edgar Winter "They Only Come Out At Night" and Santana's "Caravanserai".
    We know that you believe you understood what you think we said, but we are not sure you realize that what you heard is not what we meant.

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    I forgot what a “pain in the ass” it was to constantly re-cue records like … maybe 150 times in 5 hours, especially when the turntable is 13 ft away…but…LOL ..Was it worth it for my fat ass to get up and compare The TATE ll 101A with INVOLVE SQ/SM? Yeah baby!.......... If you have not lived with a TATE or a QSD-1, you will curl your toes a lot, clap your hands and say wow, and definitely cry; and if you have lived with one or both, you will smile a lot and say wow….and hell, maybe cry!

    Those who buy this unit, will have state of the art decoding of both SQ and QS, and also a great synthesizer, all in one magic box … a bit of a dream come true.

    You really must have independent control of all audio channels, because INVOLVE does not provide them.

    My TATE was one of the first made, however I have AB’d it with units produced later, and I heard little or no difference….just to be clear about that, also It has been recapped.

    INVOLVE SQ performs all the SQ tricks perfectly.. …have no fear or doubt about that…360 degree pans are exactly the same as the TATE…... every instrument is in its proper place, especially the ones that are exactly tucked in one of those famous rear corners where you know they should be, but through the INVOLVE, it usually sounds seamlessly discrete compared to the TATE, which on occasion, seems to vacuum suck an instrument into position.
    This is not a great distinction, but it is audible!

    INVOLVE SQ always sounds more open and transparent…especially when there is real room reverberation…Instruments bloom and sparkle, making the TATE sound slightly pinched…. and sometimes very pinched!
    INVOLVE always reproduced voices with great clarity …on several albums, after going back and forth, it sounded as if the vocalists, on some tracks, were recessed or slightly hazy through the TATE. The low end response seems much better through the INVOLVE decoder too!
    Some of the albums I listened to :
    Chase
    SANTANA ABRAXAS
    LOGGINS AND MESSINA
    DON ELLIS TEARS OF JOY
    MIKE OLDFIELD BOXED
    BERNSTEIN’S MASS
    THERE GOES RHYMAN’ SIMON
    RICK WAKEMAN: THE SIX WIVES OF HENRY Vlll


    I listened to many albums but decided to focus on those that I thought would most illuminate the differences.


    I am going to start with BERNSTEIN’S MASS because it was designed as an early quadraphonic sound spectacular. In other words it is a 360 degree recording, with a large number of acoustic instruments, voices both alone and in chorus, and a taped quadraphonic recording used during performance to boot. It was during this recording that I heard one of the main differences between the TATE and the INVOLVE….on side two, during segment Vlll EPISTLE “THE WORD OF THE LORD”, there are three simple spoken segments…using INVOLVE you hear the voices surrounded by the ambience of the huge hall…when you switch to the TATE, the voices suddenly sound drier and are slightly recessed or muffled, and the ambience of the room is almost suppressed. Time after time I noticed that the TATE seemed to suck the ambience out of a recording; this was never true of the INVOLVE. The envelopment, fidelity and directionality of this recording through the INVOLVE was superior to the TATE.

    DON ELLIS TEARS OF JOY is one of my favorite big band albums, but for years I have listened to it through a Sansui QSD-1, because it sounded more alive and real using the QSD-1….I missed the SQ decoding, but opted for the QSD-1 synth because of the fidelity issue….It is such a pleasure to be able hear it, with proper decoding and fidelity. This is a big band, string quartet, live recording!…..The strings are particularly seductive through the INVOLVE as opposed to the TATE, also when the brass reaches crescendos…where the TATE sounds compressed, the INVOLVE soars. There is also a vagueness to the rear decoding on this album, but only through the TATE…not so with the INVOLVE! I was puzzled by this. It was the only time that the INVOLVE and the TATE seemed to be, at times, in different worlds.

    On the LOGGINS AND MESSINA album, during the second cut on side 1 “WHISKY”, The guys sound just a bit cloudy through the TATE, but through INVOLVE, they sound separate, distinguishable and crystal clear……….During YOUR MAMA DON'T DANCE “Get out of the car longhair!” a phrase that suddenly jumps to the rear corner right, was one of those SQ quad tricks that I loved, and the INVOLVE is particularly effective here, …it is a pleasure to hear the SQ version of this album without audible constriction.

    MIKE OLDFIELD BOXED CD: I only listened to TUBULAR BELS, and again, it was in the area of clarity where INVOLVE excelled… also in the area of low bass energy where INVOLVE really won the day…prodigious is the word I’d use. This was the only CD I listened to.

    I can tell you that INVOLVE SQ is as good as or better than the TATE in almost every way, which is an amazing accomplishment. They both decode SQ beautifully, with the INVOLVE presenting a smoother, more refined and transparent image!

    When I first heard the TATE, many, many years ago, it was like magic…well the magic has spread, and now dwells in the depths of INVOLVE SQ. Listening was so much fun!
    Dwight

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Thanks dwight for that great write up. Thanks for taking the time and effort it took to write that all up and express your "Tears of Joy" for the Surround Master. I can't wait for mine to get back and check it out as well.

    Hopefully, many of us with dormant SQ LP's sitting around are in for a rebirth of sorts!
    :-jon

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Thank you Dwight. I have always trusted your observations and comments here on surround sound. I think your post will end the questions about decoding accuracy raised here.

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Chucky do you want to trade a Tate for one of your units

    RoundhouseQuad

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    You guys are all welcome….It was a pleasure to pull out those old SQ beauties and rediscover some really good surround. ..and I think I lost 10 lbs doing it. No wonder I was thinner back then…damn Compact Disc!
    Dwight

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hello Chucky,

    here an ask from Germany how the Decoder is working for SQ and QS LP's. Although we produce now self discrete quadraphonic software, I am further on interested to play my old discrete and matrix software on the highest level of quality. So the Surround Master decoder must include for me the SQ and the QS mode. I have seen now from your webside pictures of the decoder in sight of front and back. But I have not seen a key or pushbutton to switch or select the SQ oder QS mode. Both matrix chematics are different and needs also a different decoding. Or will the Surround Master recognice automatically the different inputs and switch automatically to the needed different matrix cheme fro a perfect decoding? With other words: I like to listen the same positions of the instruments or voices as playing with my Tate II for SQ and QSD-2 for QS. And if possible with some more clearness and transparency.

    How many would cost such a decoder including QS and QS selling to Germany and is paying possible with paypal?

    Thanks

    Dietrich

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    700 Club - QQ All Star chucky3042's Avatar
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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi Dietrich

    The photo for the SQ / QS version of the Surround Master is not updated. The unit we send out has a front panel switch SQ ...QS to make the selection. REMEMBER TO TURN THE POWER SWITCH OFF THEN ON TO REBOOT THE UNIT WHEN CHANGING MODES.

    For ordering please go to the "hidden " page on our web site (I have asked our people to un hide it but its not done yet!):

    http://www.involveaudio.com/products...ter-sq-edition

    The price is USD $495

    Yes Paypal is good

    Regards

    Chucky

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadro-Action View Post
    Hello Chucky,

    here an ask from Germany how the Decoder is working for SQ and QS LP's. Although we produce now self discrete quadraphonic software, I am further on interested to play my old discrete and matrix software on the highest level of quality. So the Surround Master decoder must include for me the SQ and the QS mode. I have seen now from your webside pictures of the decoder in sight of front and back. But I have not seen a key or pushbutton to switch or select the SQ oder QS mode. Both matrix chematics are different and needs also a different decoding. Or will the Surround Master recognice automatically the different inputs and switch automatically to the needed different matrix cheme fro a perfect decoding? With other words: I like to listen the same positions of the instruments or voices as playing with my Tate II for SQ and QSD-2 for QS. And if possible with some more clearness and transparency.

    How many would cost such a decoder including QS and QS selling to Germany and is paying possible with paypal?

    Thanks

    Dietrich

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Hi Roundhousequad

    Hmmm, sounds like an interesting concept as we do not have a Tate (or QSD -1), believe it or not we worked independently! May I suggest you first try to flog it on ebay or something as you will probably get a better price (for now), failing that contact me privately.

    Regards

    Chucky

    Quote Originally Posted by roundhousequad View Post
    Chucky do you want to trade a Tate for one of your units

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Thanks Dwight, great post!

    OK, I've heard enough... SQ unit ordered. I'll go stand by the mailbox now...

    Mark Z

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    `I finally received mine yesterday. When I saw the box, I thought, what's this? That's not my Involve SQ! Opened it up, and there it was. I was expecting a unit the size of the Tate, not a paperback novel!!
    Read through the manual, and noticed something missing! How does this unit do bass management? First of all, what is the crossover frequency? I assume used as 4.0 and 5.0, it just sends the bass out untouched to the 4/5 channels. But when used as 4.1 or 5.1, how do you set/turn on/activate the crossover for the sub? I hope that there's not an abscense of a crossover, just providing simple "double bass" to 4/5 and .1 outs! Please explain!

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    Default Re: INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

    Okay, I finally got my initial listening in last night! My fat ass also got a good amount of exercise cuing up tons of records.

    I will start this review with this: If you want to listen to QS and SQ records and want to synthesize stereo to quad, do not hesitate to buy this thing. It will meet your expectations and then some. Heck, if anything, the Involve folks are playing it safe and not talking it up enough (I know, they knew it would be more believable from us). This thing is beyond amazing. With SQ and QS records, I finally feel like I am getting what they told everyone they would be getting if they bought matrix stuff. If you have the Surround master, the 70's matrix propaganda is no longer a lie. I feel that if anyone is unhappy with it's QS/SQ performance, it is because they have a problem with their equipment, do not have everything optimally set up or are disappointed with the quad mix on the record (I think some people expect them all to sound like Dark Side Of The Moon).

    Firstly, I sat up temporarily at my GF's house. This setup was not optimal. While I used 4 matching large 3 way speakers, positioning was not optimal. I had to work with the space I had. I got it fairly symmetrical but front and rear were closer than left and right (even with the poor speaker placement, the mixes shined). I used my big old sony quad receiver along with an external vintage realistic phono preamp (I know they preamp is perfectly working, i think the Sony is too but I did not want to trust the receiver to this in the off chance anything in the old phono section is bad). The turntable was my GF's Technics SL-J1 linear. Pedestrian cart. Nothing too exciting here. Now that it has performed this well on this less than optimal setup, I know it will completely blow minds when setup in my system.

    I will take one second to touch on the appearance. It doesn't look that good, but it's not ugly either. It looks like a cross between a 70's radar detector and one of those digital TV converter boxes that are used to "upgrade" old TVs.

    So the first thing I slapped on was An Introduction to SQ Quadraphonic sound. I knew this would let me know right away if the SQ mode worked or not and hot damn it did! It actually sounded how you always thought it should sound! Image was perfectly stable, shocking separation, everything was going in the right direction. This was a great test. Now time to rock.

    I have all three Aerosmith quads, and I was going to work my way through the hits on all three in chronological order. They had great separation and channel isolation, but by the time I got to Walk This way, my GF was getting bored. It wasn't ping-pongy enough for her "why would you pay 500 for this type of quad". While I was happy, I knew I had to skip forward to Back In The Saddle. Yay, swirly ping pong effect, her attention is regained. I knew what I had to do next.

    Edgar Winter Frankenstein and Free Ride. Beautiful and amazing. Still has everyones attention.

    Now for the big guns. Dark Side of The Moon by Pink Floyd. I only had time to play Money and Us and Them. Sounds pretty much like the discrete version to me! I then went on to test out the QS ability.

    I put on one of the QS Ovation sound effects records, Sounds of Today and Tomorrow. It moved all the sounds around perfectly. Cars, Motorcycles, Digital effects, Airplanes, gunshots and all! Fun stuff!

    I then went to Jim Croce's hits. Played Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown. Sounded really nice. Good separation. Boring mix. Loosing the GF again even though she likes that song.

    I then played around with the synthesis from stereo records. Much better than anything I had ever heard. I will touch more on this later, but basically, when it's good it's good, when it stinks, it stinks. When it really works well with a song it is mind blowing. When it's a bad choice, it's almost unbearable compared to stereo.

    I went back to a couple more SQ records then. I played the Song Indian reservation by The Raiders. Once again, completely solid and amazing.

    The last thing I tried, was well after the ear fatigue set in (and alcohol and *whatnot* and record changing fatigue as well) was Hang On Sloopy from Rick Derringer's Spring Fever. Sounded pretty good but wasn't too exciting, plus I was beat. Kind of a low note to wind the night down on, but stuff happens.

    Thank you so much to all the INVOLVE staff for making this happen!!! This is what we have all always wanted!

  31. Thanks alaric smith thanked for this post
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