INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

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sjcorne said:
Just received my SQ Vinyl edition this week and have been having great fun testing it. I already shared some of this with the nice folks at Involve Audio over PM. I again thank them for developing this great device.
1. QS decoding quite amazing, compares well with my Sansui QSD-2..in fact I may give that device a rest.
2. Quad synthesis best I have heard, from both LPs and streaming sources (eg Spotify). In some cases sounds better than actual quad releases of some of the material..very discrete in some cases amazingly so .
3. SQ decoding - my main issue. Better than my 'wave matching' decoder (built into my old Lafayette LR 4000 receiver), as there is no pumping, but, I'm finding the channel separation in some directions less than what I expected (e.g. center front to rear cancellation). I find the corners do better, even with multiple channels and
concurrent material . I know its recommended we not do individual channel tests..but I could not resist. Comparing the new AF Billy Joel 'Streetlife Serenade ' SACD vs the SQ..the SQ decoding gets the basic directions right (but so does my old wave match decoder) but I know Billy's vice should not be coming out of the back as loudly as it does and I sit closer to the rear speakers . I wouldn't complain so much but after reading the rave reviews and comparison to the Tate (which I don't own) was wondering. Maybe it's impossible to do better with a 40 year old matrix and old records.
Thanks
Click to expand...

SQ is always gonna have some crosstalk which becomes mosre apparant if you are outside of the sweet spot.
 
Hi. All
Yes Q8 you hit it on the nail head, any system you got weather it be ( Stereo or Surround ) you balance the system for that sweet position it my be you site at the back of a surround system or the middle it is all in the balance you set up, and go out of the sweet spot you lose the full affect of what you are listening to from that sweet spot..
Bill...
 
I agree with you but in evaluating the surround master (As the vinyl edition I purchased is Beta), was just observation that the crosstalk along that dimension (center F-B vs the corners) seemed more of a problem that's all..
Native F-B separation in the SQ matrix front to back is minimal (3 db I believe)..The surround master does amazing job suppressing the individual left and right front to rear crosstalk..

Thanks
 
Like a kid on Christmas morning, I was up early and setting up my SQ Vinyl Beta Surround Master! It was a nice unboxing experience and the included documentation was very straightforward to follow, including additional information regarding the SQ Vinyl modification. I have not heard any of my SQ records in quad at all so after a quick run through of Columbia's 'An Introduction To The World Of SQ Quadraphonic Sound' LP to make sure all was well with my set up I was thrilled. This record starts with a very 70's spoken word introduction that then heads straight into an excerpt from 'Open Up Wide' by Chase, with it's famous panned trumpet opener that span around the room as discretely as I could ever hope for from a 40+ year old format. My day will generally be playing everything I own in SQ followed by QS after that. But as a taster while I ate breakfast I had opened a sealed SQ copy of Enoch Light's 'Future Sound Shock' and the results were spectacular, positioning was incredible! It made me laugh out loud at how good this is; one of my tests today will be the QS LP version of 'Spaced Out' versus the Q4 transfer of it so I can check positioning but for now I am blown away by what I am hearing :smokin

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Continuing my evaluation this fine San Francisco Summer morning, I've been comparing the QS encoded Enoch Light album '4-Channel Dynamite' as this comes with detailed notes regarding the instrument and vocal placements for each song. I have to say I am hearing everything where it should be. For sure there is bleed, but it is minimal and never unmusical. If sitting in the sweet spot then the bleed really does become more like acoustic presence rather than a doubling of the instrument. 'Penny Lane' is the first track on side 2 and is a challenging mix in terms of positioning, the front back split between instruments as well as the FR/RL split for the Piccolo Trumpet does not seem to be an issue for the Involve QS decoder. Each Piccolo Trumpet is playing something slightly different and when they cascade sky ward together at the end of the arrangement you can really hear them discretely in each channel and the effect is really rather lovely. The chorus does seem to bleed to the right side but again if you really sit correctly then you can actually pin point them to the FR with the bleed rolling off smoothly to the RR.

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Sorry to be late to the party :)

If I hadn't been inept with my Google searching I'd have found this thread a long time ago and saved myself the trouble of a Sony SQD-2020 (and having it recap'd, etc). I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this thread on QQ - a modern SQ decoder - wow!

It appears the Involve SQ Vinyl edition is by "invite"/request - the main website knows nothing of it. I found one reference in the thread to a hidden link (http://involveaudio.com/products/surround-master-sq-edition) but it's dead/broken.

So my first post is to ask for someone to kindly extend an "invite" / provide ordering information.

Many thanks!

Steven
 
Hi schultz1010

Welcome to this great forum of surround extremists, I hope you will find your "happy place" here.

If you are interested in one of the various "flavours" of SQ Surround Masters , please just personal male me or Overture on this forum and we will get you one.

Regards

Chucky

schultz1010 said:
Sorry to be late to the party :)

If I hadn't been inept with my Google searching I'd have found this thread a long time ago and saved myself the trouble of a Sony SQD-2020 (and having it recap'd, etc). I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this thread on QQ - a modern SQ decoder - wow!

It appears the Involve SQ Vinyl edition is by "invite"/request - the main website knows nothing of it. I found one reference in the thread to a hidden link (http://involveaudio.com/products/surround-master-sq-edition) but it's dead/broken.

So my first post is to ask for someone to kindly extend an "invite" / provide ordering information.

Many thanks!

Steven
Click to expand...
 
Hi schultz1010

Welcome to this great forum of surround extremists, I hope you will find your "happy place" here.

If you are interested in one of the various "flavours" of SQ Surround Masters , please just personal male me or Overture on this forum and we will get you one.

Regards

Chucky

schultz1010 said:
Sorry to be late to the party :)

If I hadn't been inept with my Google searching I'd have found this thread a long time ago and saved myself the trouble of a Sony SQD-2020 (and having it recap'd, etc). I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this thread on QQ - a modern SQ decoder - wow!

It appears the Involve SQ Vinyl edition is by "invite"/request - the main website knows nothing of it. I found one reference in the thread to a hidden link (http://involveaudio.com/products/surround-master-sq-edition) but it's dead/broken.

So my first post is to ask for someone to kindly extend an "invite" / provide ordering information.

Many thanks!

Steven
Click to expand...
 
Many thanks for the welcome and invite. I've sent a PM requesting the details on obtaining a SQ Surround Master.
 
I have had the good fortune to audition the SQ Vinyl edition of THE SURROUND MASTER! Turning records over every 25 minutes is a pain in the ass….LOL….but the pleasure of hearing quad as it was meant to be heard, and better than the state of the art for 40 yrs.is cathartic. I was not able to AB, with the flick of a switch, the old SM with the Vinyl SM version, but I can say that through the VINYL SM, simultaneous signals originating in all four speakers are simply rendered with fantastic separation! TOUCH by Morton Subotnick is a must listen If you have it. There is continuous movement and extensive use of the rear left and right “pockets”, I think that’s how the SQ guys referred to the extreme right and left rears. This was always impressive through the TATE ll, but it was never this good spatially!
It may be my imagination, but I heard a lot of height info while listening to the first cut, Singing Winds, while listening to Santana’s ABRAXAS….and once again those rear signals really stayed in the pockets. While listening to the very last cut, El Nicoya, in the right rear, a single voice goes way beyond the rear pocket. I don’t ever remember hearing that before.
THERE GOES RHYMIN SIMON and LOGGINS AND MESSINA are well recorded and I can’t say I heard anything definitive that stood out…It was just a pleasure to hear them as they should be heard.
Rick Wakeman’s SIX WIVES OF HENRY Vlll was a surprise to me. I didn’t like listening to the SQ version because the separation was annoyingly indistinct, but I have to say I was pleased to detect the rears without struggling. I know this is a real difference, because I have, over the years, attempted many times to re-listen to this album, but would stop and listen to the cd through my Sansui ..and now through INVOLVE.
BITCHES BREW is a Miles Davis quad spectacular and it is really super spacey, but at the same time those rear channels are very clear and specific. I also plopped my Mike Oldfield Boxed CD on to see how it played through the Vinyl SM…It could be my imagination, but it never seemed this discrete and perfect. Wow!
Dwight
 
Same here with 'Six Wives...' - I got a super clean copy in a store in San Francisco that decodes so well, it's really engaging and sounds to my ears about as discrete as it could be.

Are you finding that the SQ side of things is quieter though? I will generally have to crank SQ decodes higher than QS decodes.


dwight said:
I have had the good fortune to audition the SQ Vinyl edition of THE SURROUND MASTER! Turning records over every 25 minutes is a pain in the ass….LOL….but the pleasure of hearing quad as it was meant to be heard, and better than the state of the art for 40 yrs.is cathartic. I was not able to AB, with the flick of a switch, the old SM with the Vinyl SM version, but I can say that through the VINYL SM, simultaneous signals originating in all four speakers are simply rendered with fantastic separation! TOUCH by Morton Subotnick is a must listen If you have it. There is continuous movement and extensive use of the rear left and right “pockets”, I think that’s how the SQ guys referred to the extreme right and left rears. This was always impressive through the TATE ll, but it was never this good spatially!
It may be my imagination, but I heard a lot of height info while listening to the first cut, Singing Winds, while listening to Santana’s ABRAXAS….and once again those rear signals really stayed in the pockets. While listening to the very last cut, El Nicoya, in the right rear, a single voice goes way beyond the rear pocket. I don’t ever remember hearing that before.
THERE GOES RHYMIN SIMON and LOGGINS AND MESSINA are well recorded and I can’t say I heard anything definitive that stood out…It was just a pleasure to hear them as they should be heard.
Rick Wakeman’s SIX WIVES OF HENRY Vlll was a surprise to me. I didn’t like listening to the SQ version because the separation was annoyingly indistinct, but I have to say I was pleased to detect the rears without struggling. I know this is a real difference, because I have, over the years, attempted many times to re-listen to this album, but would stop and listen to the cd through my Sansui ..and now through INVOLVE.
BITCHES BREW is a Miles Davis quad spectacular and it is really super spacey, but at the same time those rear channels are very clear and specific. I also plopped my Mike Oldfield Boxed CD on to see how it played through the Vinyl SM…It could be my imagination, but it never seemed this discrete and perfect. Wow!
Dwight
Click to expand...
 
I have not noticed any overall volume difference, but I do raise the level of the rears on both SQ and INVOLVE. The most annoying level problem is bass! I adjust it to a different level on almost everything I listen to.
Dwight
 
Chucky (and all),

I finally had the chance to hook up the Involve with the new SQ chip. You guys NAILED IT! This is now my "go to" SQ decoder. Although it has slightly (and I mean slightly) more leakage than the Tate, it doesn't have the extreme artifacts of it. The levels seem spot on now. To me, it's a vast improvement over the original release. FANTASTIC JOB...(and thanks for fixing my poor soldering). :)
 
Hi Tab

Thank you for the initial criticism and patience. SQ is an example of how to hide surround information within a stereo package but making the extraction with fidelity close to impossible. Your comments regarding artifacts is important to us and you will note that in the early stages of the development we clearly stated that we were not on a separation numbers chase, you can create great numbers with a really messy sound.

In the later stages of development of our "according to the book" decoder we finally perfected the basic decode matrix but the sound was very messy with all sorts of artifacts. Overture was running out of good ideas on how to fix it and was starting to "go a bit strange", it was then I suggested to now link the SQ decode matrix to our Involve processor - and suddenly all the artifacts were gone! Both overture and I were wrongly assuming the raw logic SQ decode matrix would sound better, we both forgot how much Involve cleaned it up. This is a true story, not a promo!

QQ feedback is really important to us as you guys in some ways have been our test animals. We new QQ members would be a very hard but knowledgeable audience. We know we are a small lone voice crying out in the woods surrounded by ever more complicated multi multi channel digital madness (you know who I am talking about) but frankly the stereo encode/ decode process has way more to offer. Pity things went off the track after the first excellent but failed attempts at surround in the 70's.

Our next mission is to spread our surround methods to the mass market - wish us luck, fortune favors the foolish!

Overture and I will now do a conga line into the streets in celebration!

Regards

Chucky


QUADradial said:
Chucky (and all),

I finally had the chance to hook up the Involve with the new SQ chip. You guys NAILED IT! This is now my "go to" SQ decoder. Although it has slightly (and I mean slightly) more leakage than the Tate, it doesn't have the extreme artifacts of it. The levels seem spot on now. To me, it's a vast improvement over the original release. FANTASTIC JOB...(and thanks for fixing my poor soldering). :)
Click to expand...
 
Hi Chucky, do I order one of the Involve units that does SQ vinyl from your website?
I can only see the SQ "by the book" incarnation for sale there (I'm probably being thick and the option is right there under my hooter!) :eek: Thanks in advance!
 
Hi Fredblue

I have passed on your request and you will be contacted with details shortly. Alternatively PM "Overture" directly and he will get the ball rolling.
It really is a QQ special.

Regards

Chucky

fredblue said:
Hi Chucky, do I order one of the Involve units that does SQ vinyl from your website?
I can only see the SQ "by the book" incarnation for sale there (I'm probably being thick and the option is right there under my hooter!) :eek: Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
 
chucky3042 said:
Hi Fredblue

I have passed on your request and you will be contacted with details shortly. Alternatively PM "Overture" directly and he will get the ball rolling.
It really is a QQ special.

Regards

Chucky
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! :upthumb

If you have a minute, could I just ask what configuration of your Involve equipment you would advise in my situation?

I would be primarily playing back SQ LP's through the Surround Master with the occasional QS encoded CD and LP.

Would you suggest an "Involve + SQ Vinyl" setup in that instance rather than an 'Involve + SQ "by the book" unit?
 
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