INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

I spent the last month comparing the SQ Vinyl Beta to the Original Surround Master and I have to say you guys have hit another home run. As claimed, the Vinyl version improves the 4 corner crosstalk between front & rear speakers. For me, where I sit in the rear end of the listening room the dynamics & separation between the left & right front speakers are easier to pick up - even when the back speakers are active. This improves the listening experience for several albums- Loggins & Messina, Chicago, Sly & the Family Stone & Poco come to mind. Sometimes what I thought were center front vocals were really L-R, C-L, or C-R exchanges. Nice to be able to pick up these subtleties! I'm curious to hear how close the Loggins & Messina album will be when I get my hands on the AF SACD next month! Classical ambience mixes sound the same as the original unit: excellent. So all in all the SQ decoding is improved & remains smooth. No artifacts at all. Other than that the unit is exactly the same as the Original with the same excellent QS decoding. Good job guys!

Please forward my request for the SQ/SQ-vinyl edition.

Done!!!!!

Quadwreck said:

Please forward my request for the SQ/SQ-vinyl edition.

Click to expand...

i can put in my own chip for this upgrade how do i get it
Thanks
Jim

Hi

See the https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?20901-Involve-SQ-Vinyl-Ordering-Update thread, and PM "Overture" with your details and we will contact you.

Actually surface mount is easier than through hole with a steady drunken hand.

Regards

Chucky

roundhousequad said:

i can put in my own chip for this upgrade how do i get it
Thanks
Jim

Click to expand...

Here is a down and dirty comparison between the two versions using the CHASE trumpet track. Sorry for the difference in levels because a different CD player was used and I had to use my cell phone for the new version...so there is a slight video drift. Keep your eyes on the rear channels when the trumpet is in the front. The leakage problem is gone. This decoder is pushing 20dB+ of separation. It's on par with the Tate II, but without the heavy pumping. The only complaint that I have is the rear levels run hot, so I had to roll off the back channels by about 6-9dB. This Surround Master is the best SQ decoder in my opinion.

[video]https://youtu.be/lPeYtF8iMLg[/video]

QUADradial said:

Here is a down and dirty comparison between the two versions using the CHASE trumpet track. Sorry for the difference in levels because a different CD player was used and I had to use my cell phone for the new version...so there is a slight video drift. Keep your eyes on the rear channels when the trumpet is in the front. The leakage problem is gone. This decoder is pushing 20dB+ of separation. It's on par with the Tate II, but without the heavy pumping. The only complaint that I have is the rear levels run hot, so I had to roll off the back channels by about 6-9dB. This Surround Master is the best SQ decoder in my opinion.

[video]https://youtu.be/lPeYtF8iMLg[/video]

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Oh maaaaaan... my SQ records can't wait for mine to come! (as the actress sorta said..)

QUADradial said:

Here is a down and dirty comparison between the two versions using the CHASE trumpet track. Sorry for the difference in levels because a different CD player was used and I had to use my cell phone for the new version...so there is a slight video drift. Keep your eyes on the rear channels when the trumpet is in the front. The leakage problem is gone. This decoder is pushing 20dB+ of separation. It's on par with the Tate II, but without the heavy pumping. The only complaint that I have is the rear levels run hot, so I had to roll off the back channels by about 6-9dB. This Surround Master is the best SQ decoder in my opinion.

[video]https://youtu.be/lPeYtF8iMLg[/video]

Click to expand...

That's a really nice representation of the differences between the two units and reflects what I hear when I play that record too. Nice work!

QUADradial said:

Here is a down and dirty comparison between the two versions using the CHASE trumpet track. Sorry for the difference in levels because a different CD player was used and I had to use my cell phone for the new version...so there is a slight video drift. Keep your eyes on the rear channels when the trumpet is in the front. The leakage problem is gone. This decoder is pushing 20dB+ of separation. It's on par with the Tate II, but without the heavy pumping. The only complaint that I have is the rear levels run hot, so I had to roll off the back channels by about 6-9dB. This Surround Master is the best SQ decoder in my opinion.

[video]https://youtu.be/lPeYtF8iMLg[/video]

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Thanks Tab. Your approval makes me feel very glad that I ordered the newer unit!
Great job!

I got my replacement chip still sitting in the courier bag... I need to get it put in my unit...!!!!

LizardKing said:

I got my replacement chip still sitting in the courier bag... I need to get it put in my unit...!!!!

Click to expand...

C'mon baby light that chip fire!

QUADradial said:

Here is a down and dirty comparison between the two versions using the CHASE trumpet track. Sorry for the difference in levels because a different CD player was used and I had to use my cell phone for the new version...so there is a slight video drift. Keep your eyes on the rear channels when the trumpet is in the front. The leakage problem is gone. This decoder is pushing 20dB+ of separation. It's on par with the Tate II, but without the heavy pumping. The only complaint that I have is the rear levels run hot, so I had to roll off the back channels by about 6-9dB. This Surround Master is the best SQ decoder in my opinion.

[video]https://youtu.be/lPeYtF8iMLg[/video]

Click to expand...

Regarding the rear levels - I lower my rears by approx 7 DB when running my Surround Master - good to know that this is in the range that you experienced.

Dear All

Many thanks to the good work from Tab!

My only issue of confusion is the issue regarding rear level......get ready for an argument!!!!!! On our set up in our laboratory and sound rooms we use the same speakers/ amps/ gain for the front and rears. We position our listening area equidistant between front and rears. We also have used various test recordings of both SQ and QS and measured the output levels and we have found we are all at the same level on all channels.

Really dunno whats happening in regard to this 6 db thing. My questions to all with this issue are:

1 Are you using the same setup re speakers front/ back?
2 Are you sitting quad central- not the Dolby seated configuration?
3 Have you checked the gain configuration of your amplifier/ receiver (I hate receivers)

There is also another possibility that your previous SQ decoder was putting out too low level to the rears and consequently the levels at your end have been adjusted to compensate.

I am not trying to weasel out of this, its just I know we have thoroughly tested front back levels with known good test material.

Your feedback would be appreciated......preferably with actual voltage measurement from the output of the SQ SM before it hits your amplifier/ speakers

Yours dazed and bewildered

Chucky

Hi. Chucky
I agree with you Chucky.
I think its all down to were you sit in the room, when I set up my SM I was sitting in the sweet spot in the middle of my room and set my Denon AVR-2106 to equal levels & I have 4 of the same speaker Philips based set of 4-way speakers. I have some good test lp`s & cd`s for SQ & QS and every thing sounded great I have moved to a new home I cant have the same configuration that I had in the old home, I sit back from the middle position so I have to reduce the back levels of my Denon because I am sitting closer to the back speaker so its sounds more balanced.

Chucky...
Plain and simple. I have this song on discrete tape and SQ. The discrete tape shows the trumpet being reasonably even in levels throughout that 360 pan. The Tate decoder matches that fairly precise. The Involve seems to raise the overall rear level quite a bit. The setup is 1 CD player, fed directly into the input of the Surround Master, fed directly into the discrete input of the Sony decoder (which is what I used for the meters), fed directly into the Marantz receiver. Bypassing the Sony, the rear levels are still very hot in listening tests. All that said, it's a small penalty for what it decodes. I'll shoot one more video without the level adjustment to show what I mean.

https://youtu.be/D87QSWwcAto

I could not get the levels to match between the two versions. I still think that there is maybe a 4db difference channel-to-channel in the discrete version, while the SQ version shows about 10db. It could be a bad encode...but I've noticed that I turn down the rear channels in SQ mode on everything I play through it to get it balanced. Still, it's a minor thing!!

Hi Tab

I will dig out some of the reference SQ test tracks we used and publish them to a dropbox so you guys can compare. Lets see what happens.

Regards

Chucky

You know...all the SQ testing and I never gave the Involve mode a chance on QS material. HOLY MACKEREL! I played an Urbie Green QS LP and never heard separation like this! I may need to save up and buy another one of these...

QUADradial said:

You know...all the SQ testing and I never gave the Involve mode a chance on QS material. HOLY MACKEREL! I played an Urbie Green QS LP and never heard separation like this! I may need to save up and buy another one of these...

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Is the second Surround Master for another location - the QS room?

I would just like to say again
That the Surround Master is
as good as the QSD1 and now as good as the TATE

It is a 3 band QS decoder (same as QSD1)

and a 3 Band SQ decoder (the only 3 band SQ decoder Made)

some times these things are overlooked
If you wanted to get into Quad late you can do no better
There has never been a one piece unit that could decode both Matrix's to this standard