HiRez Poll Yes - CLOSE TO THE EDGE [DVD-AUDIO/BLU-RAY]

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Rate the DVD-A/BDA of YES - CLOSE TO THE EDGE


  • Total voters
    143
The High res music ought never be used with any DSP. It lowers the resolution to 44.
Straight to the amps, the reason I like analog multi-channel.


Whoever told you that, was misinformed. DSP doesn't necessarily lower sample rate (not resolution) to 44 khz (in fact I've never heard of any that does that, at least in modern times). Many AVRs actually do DSP at high rez rates , e.g., 96 kHz/24bits, upsampling input where necessary. I certainly would not forgo room correction or bass management DSP out of fear that the rates are inadequate.

The reason not to use Pro Logic on 5.1 LPCM is that it's already mixed as 6 channels. The one reason to use it (Pro Logic IIX or IIz) would be to upmix to 7.1 channels.
 
ok then... what setting on the receiver should be used for 5.1 LPCM?

Whatever setting turns synthetic surround (like Dolby Pro Logic) off.

There are so many audio systems reported on this board (and so many weird settings and connection schemes people are using) that it's impossible to be more specific unless you describe yours in more detail.

The simplest thing, if your setup allows it, would be to run HDMI from your player to receiver, and have the AVR detect the type of incoming signal automatically. That's what mine (a Denon) does. If it's LPCM 5.1, no fake surround is applied. If it's some flavor of DTS or DD 5.1, that's decoded correctly too by the AVR.
 
Whatever setting turns synthetic surround (like Dolby Pro Logic) off.

There are so many audio systems reported on this board (and so many weird settings and connection schemes people are using) that it's impossible to be more specific unless you describe yours in more detail.

The simplest thing, if your setup allows it, would be to run HDMI from your player to receiver, and have the AVR detect the type of incoming signal automatically. That's what mine (a Denon) does. If it's LPCM 5.1, no fake surround is applied. If it's some flavor of DTS or DD 5.1, that's decoded correctly too by the AVR.

Years ago, you could not involve any DSP with multi-channel use due to dedicated analog inputs that went straight to the amps. My old ass Integra even mentioned that DSP was detrimental to High res music. Now, with HDMI I understand it's possible to use DSP with high res sources. Why? would anyone want to 'color" the high quality audio from a good dvd audio? LPCM is as good as any DSD- or any high res source I was mistaken in thinking DSP lowers resolution.
 
Years ago, you could not involve any DSP with multi-channel use due to dedicated analog inputs that went straight to the amps. My old ass Integra even mentioned that DSP was detrimental to High res music. Now, with HDMI I understand it's possible to use DSP with high res sources. Why? would anyone want to 'color" the high quality audio from a good dvd audio? LPCM is as good as any DSD- or any high res source I was mistaken in thinking DSP lowers resolution.
it's still so. from point of reproducing unaltered sound it is best choice.
but 2 main problems arise:
1. poorly done recording/mix/mastering but finalized as HiRes audio stream
2. acoustic speakers not sufficient for faithful reproduction of recorded sound.


as i have observed, that's main reasons people does use DSP processing, offered by Audyssey and
such sound calibration/tweaking systems. albeit even such systems being turned on, gives an option
to use direct stream without tweaking or tweak the sound manually to preferences of particular listener.
 
Years ago, you could not involve any DSP with multi-channel use due to dedicated analog inputs that went straight to the amps. My old ass Integra even mentioned that DSP was detrimental to High res music. Now, with HDMI I understand it's possible to use DSP with high res sources. Why? would anyone want to 'color" the high quality audio from a good dvd audio? LPCM is as good as any DSD- or any high res source I was mistaken in thinking DSP lowers resolution.

Your old-ass Integra probably offered no proof of its claim. In any case, it's not true for today's audio technology.

I am pro DSP. I don't want to not involve 'any DSP'. I *want* room correction DSP to be in place. I *want* bass management to work. I *want* low-volume Fletcher-Munson correction to work when I'm listening at low volume. So should anyone who has such tools. THis is because 1) *your room and speakers are almost certainly coloring the sound* and 2) psychoacoustics. These DSP attempt to ameliorate that. What I would not want, is some other surround synthesis scheme laid on top of the 5.1 signal, unless it was to distribute it to more channels than the native signal has, e.g., 5.1 --> 7.1,

Analog 'purism' is not intelligent if you have an inkling of how acoustics and psycohoacoustics work in real rooms with real loudspeakers, unless you have a fully treated room and excellent loudspeakers (and even then, an analog path is objectively inferior to digital).
 
it's still so. from point of reproducing unaltered sound it is best choice.
but 2 main problems arise:
1. poorly done recording/mix/mastering but finalized as HiRes audio stream
2. acoustic speakers not sufficient for faithful reproduction of recorded sound.


as i have observed, that's main reasons people does use DSP processing, offered by Audyssey and
such sound calibration/tweaking systems. albeit even such systems being turned on, gives an option
to use direct stream without tweaking or tweak the sound manually to preferences of particular listener.

No, it is not so.

First, analog is hardly 'unaltered sound'. It is merely an output signal, typically with added noise and distortion, that has not been through a digital stage.

Second, the problem is not just bad mixes and loudspeaker issues . It is also the room itself. Virtually *every* room has acoustic issues at the listening position. You can fix them with proper room design, or aftermarket room treatments , plus multiple subwoofers. Those are very expensive solutions. DSP + careful loudspeaker choice gets you part of the way there for less money. "Direct signal' or all-analog purism by themselves won't get you anywhere near that far.
 
No, it is not so.

First, analog is hardly 'unaltered sound'. It is merely an output signal, typically with added noise and distortion, that has not been through a digital stage.

Second, the problem is not just bad mixes and loudspeaker issues . It is also the room itself. Virtually *every* room has acoustic issues at the listening position. You can fix them with proper room design, or aftermarket room treatments , plus multiple subwoofers. Those are very expensive solutions. DSP + careful loudspeaker choice gets you part of the way there for less money. "Direct signal' or all-analog purism by themselves won't get you anywhere near that far.
sorry but you're wrong. analog 5.1 or 7.1 "in" and "out" interface was and still standardized to audio path, source - amplification - output,
bypassing sound processing stage.
digital path was and still utilize sound decoding/processing path, prior been passed to amplification section.
HDMI offers more flexibility in choosing how user would like to process audio signal, from none to full range of all possible tweaks and adjustments.
i won't discuss added noise and distortion, as it's mainly appears due to technical side of design and/or quality of connectors/cables. please note if
these are faulty, same cons would appears on the digital signal after it processed by DSP and passed to amplification. in fact audio we hear is an
analog form.
from personal experience i can say that processing even through most neutral settings of DSP still alters sound in comparison to doing same source
over analog path.
but nevertheless it's great to have so many options offered today to end users, which gave them an opportunity to tweak their system accordingly
to their personal listening environmental and preferences.
 
sorry but you're wrong. analog 5.1 or 7.1 "in" and "out" interface was and still standardized to audio path, source - amplification - output,
bypassing sound processing stage.
digital path was and still utilize sound decoding/processing path, prior been passed to amplification section.
HDMI offers more flexibility in choosing how user would like to process audio signal, from none to full range of all possible tweaks and adjustments.
i won't discuss added noise and distortion, as it's mainly appears due to technical side of design and/or quality of connectors/cables. please note if
these are faulty, same cons would appears on the digital signal after it processed by DSP and passed to amplification. in fact audio we hear is an
analog form.
from personal experience i can say that processing even through most neutral settings of DSP still alters sound in comparison to doing same source
over analog path.
but nevertheless it's great to have so many options offered today to end users, which gave them an opportunity to tweak their system accordingly
to their personal listening environmental and preferences.

In the end there is only one thing that counts imho.
Know your setup!
If someone has cheap equipment and a bad treated room, but listened for years on his sytem, she/he will like it.
The human ear will make the most of it.
You can spend thousands of dollars/euros, but they will tell you, it can be better when you spend even more money....
So....what is perfect????
 
sorry but you're wrong. analog 5.1 or 7.1 "in" and "out" interface was and still standardized to audio path, source - amplification - output,
bypassing sound processing stage.
digital path was and still utilize sound decoding/processing path, prior been passed to amplification section.


Whatever this means, it doesn't address what I wrote. Analog 5.1. and 7.1 is no longer 'standard'. The plain fact is that analog path do not result in 'unaltered sound'. Analog paths inevitably add some noise and distortion. It *may* be below audibility or *may* be audible but unobjectionable, but it is not 'unaltered' or somehow more 'pure' than digital. That is just audiophile romanticism. The digital output signal may in fact more closely match the original input signal; simply passing a signal through a DAC does not constitute 'DSP'. DSP is a purposeful alteration of the signal, using digital means. In most modern setups, you can deactivate any DSP and pass the digital signal 'pure', i.e. simply converting it back to analog. You are then entirely at the mercy of your loudspeaker and room performance.

As for the rest, personal experience such as you report, without method controls, are not reliable.
 
I have listened to the 5.1 LPCM twice. I'm very confused by all the comments about "lacking bass" because I find there is too much of it, and I'm usually the one to crank it up! I turned off my sub completely and still found it too bassy. So after reading the comments here, I think there may be something "wrong" with my setup. I use an oppo 93 with analog outs and my amp (Harmon Kardon) does not allow any eq or bass management with the 6-ch input. I don't have this issue with other BD 5.1 LPCM mixes (2112, storm corrosion, the raven...) so I find it odd. The only way I found to bypass this is using the regular dts stream, as my HK does not accept sound from hdmi (I know, upgrade!). So I feel cheated having to use a stream suited for dvd-v when I have this on blu-ray!
So I won't vote until I hear the mix like it's supposed to sound!....but right now, it would be a 7
The drums are way too low. I can barely make them out! Vocals, guitar and keyboards sound great. the mix (placement, balance, etc, ...) is also great, if I forget about the bass...
I know this is minor, but they could have used different background pics for each song, and also during each song. Having to stare at the same image for 48 minutes (if you include America) is annoying, and a waste of technology ;)
 
I have listened to the 5.1 LPCM twice. I'm very confused by all the comments about "lacking bass" because I find there is too much of it, and I'm usually the one to crank it up! I turned off my sub completely and still found it too bassy. So after reading the comments here, I think there may be something "wrong" with my setup. I use an oppo 93 with analog outs and my amp (Harmon Kardon) does not allow any eq or bass management with the 6-ch input. I don't have this issue with other BD 5.1 LPCM mixes (2112, storm corrosion, the raven...) so I find it odd. The only way I found to bypass this is using the regular dts stream, as my HK does not accept sound from hdmi (I know, upgrade!). So I feel cheated having to use a stream suited for dvd-v when I have this on blu-ray!
So I won't vote until I hear the mix like it's supposed to sound!....but right now, it would be a 7
The drums are way too low. I can barely make them out! Vocals, guitar and keyboards sound great. the mix (placement, balance, etc, ...) is also great, if I forget about the bass...
I know this is minor, but they could have used different background pics for each song, and also during each song. Having to stare at the same image for 48 minutes (if you include America) is annoying, and a waste of technology ;)

If you are using analog with the Oppo 93, then bass management is done in the Oppo, not the amp. I set my 103 crossover to 80hz. Depending on what speakers you have, try different settings. Most are at 80. I use Polk rti8 with a 12" Polk sub.
It sounds just fine. If bass overpowers I use the bass adjustment on my avr.
 
Actually, if other people are finding major differences in the bass between the different encodings, it is more likely an issue with their setup. Unless there was some kind of encoding issue, they should be about the same.

I have listened to the 5.1 LPCM twice. I'm very confused by all the comments about "lacking bass" because I find there is too much of it, and I'm usually the one to crank it up! I turned off my sub completely and still found it too bassy. So after reading the comments here, I think there may be something "wrong" with my setup. I use an oppo 93 with analog outs and my amp (Harmon Kardon) does not allow any eq or bass management with the 6-ch input. I don't have this issue with other BD 5.1 LPCM mixes (2112, storm corrosion, the raven...) so I find it odd. The only way I found to bypass this is using the regular dts stream, as my HK does not accept sound from hdmi (I know, upgrade!). So I feel cheated having to use a stream suited for dvd-v when I have this on blu-ray!
So I won't vote until I hear the mix like it's supposed to sound!....but right now, it would be a 7
The drums are way too low. I can barely make them out! Vocals, guitar and keyboards sound great. the mix (placement, balance, etc, ...) is also great, if I forget about the bass...
I know this is minor, but they could have used different background pics for each song, and also during each song. Having to stare at the same image for 48 minutes (if you include America) is annoying, and a waste of technology ;)
 
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