Oh, add to that, there are no native DSD DAC chips in the newer products. They're a combo chip and usually convert to PCM.
Elton John "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" HFPA Blu-Ray Release
- Thread starter rtbluray
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Thomas who? If it's Hooper he seems like a really nice guy from most of what I seen of his online conduct etc., on a one-to-one level I don't know him from a bar of soap.. but I'm sorry he's not unbiased, in fact I'd go so far as to say he's a BD-A basher! I've given Universal's HFPA's my fair share of criticism (too many have been mediocre or complete rubbish!) but really his negativity about these Blu-ray's is so unwavering, it's become tedious and I can't be arsed engaging with that! Bah even if it is, bring it on! I'll roll my sleeves up!
So the SACD and BD mixes are identical, yet sound different, and that's because BD is 'clearer' (especially when listening through *headphones*).
Oh, audiophiles, the things you say....
How about, someone record (digitize) a few channels (like front or rear L/R) from one track, from the analog out, playing both the SACD and the BD. Record them both at some high rate like 96Hz/24bit just so you don't miss too much all-important ultrasonic content, or any of low level tape hiss between songs. Then compare them with audio analysis software like Audition or Audacity. The differences claimed should be easily visible/quantifiable.
Just a friendly suggestion, you've got all the right ideas.. how about getting the disc and doing all that analysis yourself?
Listening to the music on the Yellow Brick Road Blu is even more fun than pouring over graphs and charts, etc., imho.
Damn you guys! I just reordered the BD off of Amazon. Now, I'll have to hear the difference for myself. The positive to all this? I no longer have to get up and change the disc to hear the second part.
Trust your own ears and if you like what you hear then that's a big old chunk of the pleasure of this hobby I reckon
the Stereo on the '03 SACDs and the Stereo on the new BDA sound totally different because they are completely different masterings. I don't see how I can be more categorical than that!?
the DSD vs. PCM thing is irrelevant imo. there's other witchcraft at work in that there Blu-ray!
as soon as more QQ members in the States start getting the Blu I'm sure we'll get some more great p.o.v.'s on this, it feels a bit lonely going on about this stuff at times! if people buy these things they can hear them for themselves and come to their own conclusions as well as gathering as much information from others to draw their conclusions on what's going on with it.
You're right! I'm done comparing sound qualities of different DAC's and formats. Well, actually, I gave up a long time ago. Though, I still have my opinion, it's the music that counts.
You're right! I'm done comparing sound qualities of different DAC's and formats. Well, actually, I gave up a long time ago. Though, I still have my opinion, it's the music that counts.
Too true! Next to nobody I know IRL ever said "I just bought a great-sounding DAC!" but I know a lot of people who say "I bought a great-sounding record!"
Surely we've all let the technology get in the way of the enjoyment of the music at times?
Still, I refuse to beat myself up about getting hung up on frequency rates and PCM this and DSD that.. it's healthy to be interested and informed about this stuff in the pursuit of great sound..
..but once it borders on the obsessive and we say "I won't buy this SACD because it's sourced from PCM and not DSD" well that strikes me, with all due respect, as a bit daft!
Not sure but when he replies to me, I see Thomas in his name. Don't know if it's his first or last. Or, perhaps, doubting Thomas?
Not sure but when he replies to me, I see Thomas in his name. Don't know if it's his first or last. Or, perhaps, doubting Thomas?
I'm not being personal about Thomas Hooper at all but anyone can see from his comments on the HFPA Facebook page that its one thing being honest & upfront about your experiences with these HFPA discs but when they've never heard them and just drone on all the time about what a load of crap they all are, they kinda lose a bit of credibility for me.
The Blu-ray Audio's from Universal so far have been far far from perfect but it would be wrong to say they are all worthless and to deny that things are slowly and slightly improving.
Just look at the latest announcement = The Who's Quadrophenia album in 5.1 in its entirety on one disc for £15.99 --- come on, this is a disc made in heaven for many of us QQ guys.
We should embrace this stuff, not rubbish it because we have our own personal agenda (whatever that is and I wouldn't dream of suggesting people like Thom Hooper have one..) though to go on and on (and on!) about all the bad things about HFPA where there are patently good things happening and better things on the horizon is just a complete bloody bore..!!
Hooper is a beating and it takes every fiber of my being to not get into it with him. Pretty much every post on HFPA's Facebook page by him is negative or touting how much better the SACD of something is. Notice how he was absent from The Who announcement today. That's because there's nothing he could complain about. He has an agenda and it's anti-HFPA regardless of if it is warranted or not. I've been frustrated by HFPA specifically on the lack of 5.1 but he almost makes it his mission to complain. If I was HFPA, I'd ignore him too. I'm pretty sure he criticized the Beck Sea Change HFPA which is probably the best HFPA that's been released and is a title that's incredibly tough to own on SACD or DVD-Audio.
If it's mastered differently, in the usual sense of the word (different EQ/compression/noise reduction choices), then the format is not likely to be what's causing the audible difference.
If the *only* difference in the mastering is that one is to PCM and the other DSD, there's no reason to expect an audible difference.
Just a friendly suggestion, you've got all the right ideas.. how about getting the disc and doing all that analysis yourself?
Well, friend, if really care to see the analysis done, why don't you 'get' the disc for me?
But I'm allowed to listen to it *while* I pour [sic] over graphs, aren't I. Double the fun!
I could be wrong but I don't think Mr. Thomas will be joining QQ anytime soon. I'm sure he's reading all your comments and decided to stay clear, for which, I don't blame him. Regardless, he seems like a nice chap and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Well, friend, if really care to see the analysis done, why don't you 'get' the disc for me?
But I'm allowed to listen to it *while* I pour [sic] over graphs, aren't I. Double the fun!
Haha.. yeah
You can pore over them (you try doing all this shit on an iPhone!) to your hearts' content.. You can do what you like in fact.. but I won't be buying you the disc!
I could be wrong but I don't think Mr. Thomas will be joining QQ anytime soon. I'm sure he's reading all your comments and decided to stay clear, for which, I don't blame him. Regardless, he seems like a nice chap and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sure he's the loveliest chap since lovely chaps were invented.
Unfortunately, he's got it in for BD-A with a vengeance and spouts off about it at every opportunity because he's an SACD fanboy with the blinkers on.
I can't stand by and watch that happen.. because regrettably decent folk with no agenda read that kind of bullshit and accept it as the truth and as the facts - it's none of that, it's "his 2 cents"
anyway, enough talking about him. I'm not out to make some character assassination of someone who won't even sign up here. mdmost knows the score as well as any and summed up the situation beautifully.
No, I'd rather engage people who are here already, for the right reasons, preferably who come with no baggage but that'd be unrealistic..
colsky
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I'm sure he's the loveliest chap since lovely chaps were invented.
Unfortunately, he's got it in for BD-A with a vengeance and spouts off about it at every opportunity because he's an SACD fanboy with the blinkers on.
I can't stand by and watch that happen.. because regrettably decent folk with no agenda read that kind of bullshit and accept it as the truth and as the facts - it's none of that, it's "his 2 cents"
anyway, enough talking about him. I'm not out to make some character assassination of someone who won't even sign up here. mdmost knows the score as well as any and summed up the situation beautifully.
No, I'd rather engage people who are here already, for the right reasons, preferably who come with no baggage but that'd be unrealistic..
Too true. And you don't know him from Adam anyway
!
colsky
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
My Bluray (and only!) copy of this arrived yesterday. I listened to it once through in both stereo and 5.1. Sounds very very good to me, although I've got no other versions to compare it too, either with my ears or with graphs!
Hopefully the future of HFPA will bring more 5.1 releases (Quadrophenia :banana. This should help the future of 5.1 and bring more to the masses. What I find annoying about HFPA is the (lack of) value for money in these releases compared to other formats. When compared with DVDA releases by King Crimson, ELP etc, and with Bluray releases by Yes, XTC etc, where you get a lot more product for less money, these HFPA releases seem relatively expensive. Especially when you factor in that the costs of the King Crimson, ELP, Yes, XTC include the costs involved in actually doing the 5.1 mixes, whereas the HFPA releases are using mostly existing mixes.
We shouldn't grumble though if this means that we're getting more 5.1 releases, even though I just did :spot
Hopefully the future of HFPA will bring more 5.1 releases (Quadrophenia :banana
. This should help the future of 5.1 and bring more to the masses. What I find annoying about HFPA is the (lack of) value for money in these releases compared to other formats. When compared with DVDA releases by King Crimson, ELP etc, and with Bluray releases by Yes, XTC etc, where you get a lot more product for less money, these HFPA releases seem relatively expensive. Especially when you factor in that the costs of the King Crimson, ELP, Yes, XTC include the costs involved in actually doing the 5.1 mixes, whereas the HFPA releases are using mostly existing mixes.We shouldn't grumble though if this means that we're getting more 5.1 releases, even though I just did :spot
My Bluray (and only!) copy of this arrived yesterday. I listened to it once through in both stereo and 5.1. Sounds very very good to me, although I've got no other versions to compare it too, either with my ears or with graphs!
Hopefully the future of HFPA will bring more 5.1 releases (Quadrophenia :banana
We shouldn't grumble though if this means that we're getting more 5.1 releases, even though I just did :spot
Glad you're enjoying the EJ
you don't really need another copy, the BDA is a good all-round bet for most of us, the stereo is a great remaster (particularly by modern standards) which knocks spots off the old SACD and the 5.1 is fab.. and why waste your life away looking at graphs when you could be having fun chatting with us lot on here, or reading the wonderful GYBR lyrics while your trusty ears soak up the timeless music! :banana:
blue.monk
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
The Blu-Ray arrived today. First impression is the mastering on the 5.1 may be a bit better than the old SACD (I certainly want it to be) but it's not a night and day difference to my ears. I'll continue to listen and do some more detailed comparisons over the next few days. I must say I rather enjoy the non-fadeup on Social Disease (sacrilege!).
I think the stereo is a real winner. I've listened to a handful of tracks on headphones and I prefer it to the Japanese SHM-SACD which I believe was a flat transfer. The new Ludwig master is full and warm while the SHM-SACD comes across as thin and somewhat harsh in comparison at least through my headphone setup (Woo Audio fireflies amp, Sennheiser HD800 phones).
I think the stereo is a real winner. I've listened to a handful of tracks on headphones and I prefer it to the Japanese SHM-SACD which I believe was a flat transfer. The new Ludwig master is full and warm while the SHM-SACD comes across as thin and somewhat harsh in comparison at least through my headphone setup (Woo Audio fireflies amp, Sennheiser HD800 phones).
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