Steve Hoffman forums full of CRAZY stereo obsessed people!

5.1 is not natural according to some of them. Stereo only is the way@:

These are the type of nut jobs who throw a fit when a title is remixed as if that makes one not be able to get the original forever.

Insane!

Oh god.. don't get me started! I've waded in there.. and I now find myself trying to stand up for surround on SHF and for decent people on sa-cd.net.. but I'm just about to step away from both those forums. way too much nastiness (etc) for my liking on there.

THANK GOD FOR QQ..!!!!!!

In the surround converts thread we have diverted to some of the philosophy on surround appreciators vs non-appreciators. In a nutshell we believe surround appreciators have a more developed brain, I think it is unanimous amongst the 5 responders thus far Heck its our forum we don't have to be humble :brew:brew

Time Lord said:

In the surround converts thread we have diverted to some of the philosophy on surround appreciators vs non-appreciators. In a nutshell we believe surround appreciators have a more developed brain, I think it is unanimous amongst the 5 responders thus far Heck its our forum we don't have to be humble :brew:brew

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But stereo is the way it should be. Surround is distracting. :howl

fredblue said:

Oh god.. don't get me started! I've waded in there.. and I now find myself trying to stand up for surround on SHF and for decent people on sa-cd.net.. but I'm just about to step away from both those forums. way too much nastiness (etc) for my liking on there.

THANK GOD FOR QQ..!!!!!!

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I actively "liked" a post you made there this morning (and have quietly liked many) to defuse the debate which did disrupt the Pure Audio thread. I'm a semi-active SH.tv member and a lurker here who has found your comments on GYBR very helpful since I've been deciding whether the Blu or the 2003 SACD/DVD-A would be my first ever Elton John purchase. I'd already preordered the Blu after a used SACD purchase fell through, but you have helped convince me to keep that delayed preorder, so thanks!

That said, your above post is *a touch* disappointing since I think you have gotten lots of well-earned feedback and support there. True, the board skews *ahem* old school -- even its namesake himself isn't a 5.1 fan -- but it is a vibrant board (especially if your a fan of John, Paul, George, Micky, Davey and the rest) and teems with knowledge. Yeah, there's a lot of cruft to wade through at times, but that's the Internet -- crazy isn't an exclusive. Besides, that forum is how I found this one, and it's also there where I was able to finally get some OOP 5.1 releases at better-than-eBay prices.

So, with that, thanks again. I look forward to (quietly) reading more of your observations -- here AND there.

IronWaffle said:

I actually "liked" a post you made there this morning to defuse the debate (which did disrupt the Pure Audio thread). I'm a semi-active SH.tv member and a lurker here who has found your comments on GYBR very helpful since I've been deciding whether the Blu or the 2003 SACD/DVD-A would be my first ever Elton John purchase. I'd already preordered the Blu after a used SACD purchase fell through, but you have helped convince me to keep that delayed preorder, so thanks!

That said, your above post is a touch disappointing since I think you have gotten lots of well-earned feedback and support there. True, the board skews old school -- even its namesake himself isn't a 5.1 fan -- but it is a vibrant board (especially if your a fan of John, Paul, George, Micky, Davey and the rest) and teems with knowledge. Yeah, there's a lot of cruft to wade through at times, but that's the Internet. Besides, that forum is how I found this one, and it's also there where I was able to finally get some OOP 5.1 releases at better-than-eBay prices.

So, with that, thanks again. I look forward to (quietly) reading more of your observations -- here AND there.

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Relax. Steve Hoffman is great. Just a few nutters who visit there, not everyone of course.

Stop taking comments so seriously.

keenly said:

Relax. Steve Hoffman is great. Just a few nutters who visit there, not everyone of course.

Stop taking comments so seriously.

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Thanks. I'm very relaxed, and I'm not taking your comment seriously.

IronWaffle said:

I actively "liked" a post you made there this morning (and have quietly liked many) to defuse the debate which did disrupt the Pure Audio thread. I'm a semi-active SH.tv member and a lurker here who has found your comments on GYBR very helpful since I've been deciding whether the Blu or the 2003 SACD/DVD-A would be my first ever Elton John purchase. I'd already preordered the Blu after a used SACD purchase fell through, but you have helped convince me to keep that delayed preorder, so thanks!

That said, your above post is *a touch* disappointing since I think you have gotten lots of well-earned feedback and support there. True, the board skews *ahem* old school -- even its namesake himself isn't a 5.1 fan -- but it is a vibrant board (especially if your a fan of John, Paul, George, Micky, Davey and the rest) and teems with knowledge. Yeah, there's a lot of cruft to wade through at times, but that's the Internet -- crazy isn't an exclusive. Besides, that forum is how I found this one, and it's also there where I was able to finally get some OOP 5.1 releases at better-than-eBay prices.

So, with that, thanks again. I look forward to (quietly) reading more of your observations -- here AND there.

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Thank you for your lovely comments. I hope you enjoy that GYBR disc or on my head be it!

I'm sorry that you're disappointed by my outburst here.. but when I saw keenly's thread, its all come hot on the heels of a huge fallout over @sa-cd.net.. and the nonsense at the SHF.. and I just let rip!

my patience has worn thin with intolerant, nasty, bigoted people online in general

please accept my apologies if I offended you with my post here, IronWaffle - and hey I'm glad to see you non-lurking here!

Please do post more often here, as you feel inclined we're a friendly bunch!

keenly said:

But stereo is the way it should be. Surround is distracting. :howl

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Well, IT IS at the beginning, the same way sound and color was considered distracting in movies when introduced.

The more you listen to mch recordings the less you get distracted and the more you simply enjoy a new approach to the music.

fredblue said:

Thank you for your lovely comments. I hope you enjoy that GYBR disc or on my head be it!

I'm sorry that you're disappointed by my outburst here.. but when I saw keenly's thread, its all come hot on the heels of a huge fallout over @sa-cd.net.. and the nonsense at the SHF.. and I just let rip!

my patience has worn thin with intolerant, nasty, bigoted people online in general

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I know the feeling. It's actually why when I saw the all-caps "CRAZY" in the thread title I felt an uncharacteristic urge to chime in. Normally, at most I'd have skimmed and left, but having recently read a lot of your observations it seemed a good place (and time) to acknowledge your contributions there... and maybe push against some *mildly* intolerant snark here.

please accept my apologies if I offended you with my post here, IronWaffle - and hey I'm glad to see you non-lurking here!

Please do post more often here, as you feel inclined we're a friendly bunch!

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No apologies necessary, but I'll take anything I can get for free!

QQ is my favorite music forum but I don't mind the SH forum. Have found out about different artists because of people posting there and I also bought many of my surround titles from sellers on the SH forum as well as some other musical treasures.
Have learned what are the better mixed and mastered recordings from that forum which was not so good for my pocket book but good for my ears and musical education. For sure some people go over the top in defending their turf but I usually try to stay away from getting into arguments when things go sideways in a discussion.

keenly said:

Relax. Steve Hoffman is great. Just a few nutters who visit there, not everyone of course.

Stop taking comments so seriously.

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Yeah , it's great, so long as you don't

- question something Steve Hoffman writes
- criticize any of his work (e.g., how his abstaining completely from digital editing has produced some peculiar results)
- suggest that hearing is not perfectly reliable, and that therefore bench testing and blind testing might have some value

other than that, you're fine! You can even slag off other mastering engineers you don't like! You also free to claim that FLAC and WAV sound different.

There is no doubt that QQ is friendlier than SHF; it's the friendliest music site I've ever experienced. I don't know if that's b/c surround aficionados are friendlier types (which I'd like to believe) or b/c the much greater #'s over there ensure that they get more of the "outer fringe." I can understand the stereo purists even while disagreeing w/ them, but while there are a few who can be obnoxious, most of them are polite and just stating their preference and reasons why. Arguing MCH vs. stereo is almost akin to arguing which band is better; it's just a matter of taste. If I'd spent tens of thousands of dollars on a high-end stereo rig and room treatments and had very 3-D sound from just two speakers, I'd likely feel the same.

I actually have seen more problems from people who go into threads appearing to be spoiling for a fight, not just disagreeing w/ a post but attacking it and the poster. I have to admit to taking the bait on a few occasions, but actually have come to view it as an opportunity to practice restraint and, if I choose to reply at all, not meet aggression w/ more of the same. I think the greater # of participants there bring out the trolls.

While I enjoy the community here more, there's just so much more to read there. There is a vast amount of knowledge and plenty of cool people there. I'm glad to be part of that community as well; you just have to be prepared for some drama.

We're a village; they're a city.

ssully said:

Yeah , it's great, so long as you don't

- question something Steve Hoffman writes
- criticize any of his work (e.g., how his abstaining completely from digital editing has produced some peculiar results)
- suggest that hearing is not perfectly reliable, and that therefore bench testing and blind testing might have some value

other than that, you're fine! You can even slag off other mastering engineers you don't like! You also free to claim that FLAC and WAV sound different.

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-Suggest Led Zeppelin's catalog needs to be remixed. Some seem to hate that.

IronWaffle said:

Thanks. I'm very relaxed, and I'm not taking your comment seriously.

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Great although i am part serious. There's lots on Hoffman forums who dislike surround sound. Many of them think stereo actually sounds better @:

Stereo is OK for car, laptop, phone etc but there's no comparison IMO. Hopefully if some big titles(I.E Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Pearl Jam etc) get done in 5.1 some of those people will finally see the light.

fredblue said:

Thank you for your lovely comments. I hope you enjoy that GYBR disc or on my head be it!

I'm sorry that you're disappointed by my outburst here.. but when I saw keenly's thread, its all come hot on the heels of a huge fallout over @sa-cd.net.. and the nonsense at the SHF.. and I just let rip!

my patience has worn thin with intolerant, nasty, bigoted people online in general

please accept my apologies if I offended you with my post here, IronWaffle - and hey I'm glad to see you non-lurking here!

Please do post more often here, as you feel inclined we're a friendly bunch!

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What's going on at SACD-net? I have not been there for awhile.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...MCH fans are smarter than Stereo Only folks..we can process more info than they can....
Let 'em feel like pigs in sh*t and ridicule ANYONE who suggets MCH or criticizes SH's point of view...was there for a while but it wasn't worth it.... it felt like a Black Sabbath song..."The Mob RULES"...let 'em eat bread while we eat and appreciate cake!!!

keenly said:

Great although i am part serious. There's lots on Hoffman forums who dislike surround sound. Many of them think stereo actually sounds better @:

Stereo is OK for car, laptop, phone etc but there's no comparison IMO. Hopefully if some big titles(I.E Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Pearl Jam etc) get done in 5.1 some of those people will finally see the light.

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And they are right. Stereo does sound better- to them. Now, if they're saying stereo sounds better for everyone, then that's as arrogant as saying MCH sounds better for everyone. What "sounds better" is completely subjective, whether discussing different masterings, different bands or stereo/surround. Thus, there is no universally correct answer.

Hey, let's stay above the fray and not trash other forums. There are some really GREAT SHF members, many of them good friends (and members here). Casting bad vibes is not good for us or you. I myself have "left there" because of the seemingly anti-surround feeling over there, but that does not mean there is not good info and good people to be found there.

Enjoy this place, enjoy that place. It's a big internet, and remember the #1 rule on the internet - You will NEVER get everyone to agree with you, and the harder you try, the more it will make your life miserable.

In the words of Ringo "Peace and Love, Peace and Love"