PC for Multichannel Music Playback - What's your Setup?

GOS said:

Seriously, I don't need to spend a bunch of money if it isn't going to help. That would thoroughly piss me off. But, something tells me the performance I currently have can be easily bettered...

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Malware can slow your computer down. It is something that needs to be managed. Here is a good, free program that you should run everyday:
http://www.superantispyware.com/

Download and install the Free Edition from the above website. When you use it always remember to click on "Click here to check for updates" on the home screen. This updates the malware definitions database that the program stores on your computer.

for cleaning up, I like this and have saved many a friends' 'compromised' computer using it. I run it on my system(s) every few weeks.

Malwarebytes Anti-Malware (free)
https://www.malwarebytes.org/mwb-download/thankyou/


Of course no such tool does everything. Anti 'spyware', anti-'virus' , anti-'adware' etc tools may each find things that the other ones don't.


Anyway, long-distance diagnosis of someone else's computer problems can be kind of a mug's game. GOS's issues could be as simple as buffer size alloted to foobar, and/or require disabling resource-hogging apps, (including malware) and/or installing more RAM, and/or carving out more laptop HDD space by offloading existing files, and/or....

ssully said:

for cleaning up, I like this and have saved many a friends' 'compromised' computer using it. I run it on my system(s) every few weeks.

Malwarebytes Anti-Malware (free)
https://www.malwarebytes.org/mwb-download/thankyou/


Of course no such tool does everything. Anti 'spyware', anti-'virus' , anti-'adware' etc tools may each find things that the other ones don't.


Anyway, long-distance diagnosis of someone else's computer problems can be kind of a mug's game. GOS's issues could be as simple as buffer size alloted to foobar, and/or require disabling resource-hogging apps, (including malware) and/or installing more RAM, and/or carving out more laptop HDD space by offloading existing files, and/or....

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Yeah, I have that program, and like it. Use it often. And yeah - I forgot to check my Foobar settings. If I can remember - I'll do that tonight.

LuvMyQuad said:

Actually, after looking at Newegg, 2 bay NAS units start at $100 or so and $150 will get you a Synology (well respected brand). The HDD's depend on the size you buy. Western Digital and Seagate both make HDD's especially made for NAS/server use. They are supposed to be higher reliability?

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A couple of comments regarding NAS storage and my experience:

1. Don't underestimate how useful a NAS becomes and therefore how much disc space you will need to store:

• Your music collection (Probably FLAC). Multichannel and stereo too.
• Music Videos (Concerts etc in multichannel from blu Ray and DVD)
• Favourite movies and TV series (I've got 4TB of war movies, nearly 4TB of historical movies and same for historical TV series)
• ISO backups of all your music discs
• Backups of family PCs, photos and other docs.

2. RAID is not backup. You need to have a separate backup disc for each NAS hard disc (external USB hard drives, in my case 4TB HDDs in a USB 3.0 cradle). Those backup discs are stored in my detached garage in case of fire or theft of my NAS.

3. I didn't use RAID at all. I used 4 x 4TB (individual drives) in my first 4 bay NAS, with 4 x external backups. I got a full 16TB of useable storage (with RAID 1 I would have got 8TB, yes redundancy, but redundancy is not backup!)

I later bought a 2 bay expansion unit for 6 x 4TB drives total. Now I'm on a 12 bay NAS...

Since I'm retired I've got lots of time to convert all my discs to digital format and store them, and back up the changes. You'll need plenty of time too.

Windows Robocopy allows you to copy 'only changes', so ideal for backing up NAS drives to external HDDs.

ssully said:

Anyway, long-distance diagnosis of someone else's computer problems can be kind of a mug's game.

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Absolutely! You are right on.

When someone asks for advice I try to pass on anything that I know I've had success with. But they must know too that it's a two-way street. They are opening themselves up for potentially irrelevant information.

HomerJAU said:

A couple of comments regarding NAS storage and my experience:

1. Don't underestimate how useful a NAS becomes and therefore how much disc space you will need to store:

• Your music collection (Probably FLAC). Multichannel and stereo too.
• Music Videos (Concerts etc in multichannel from blu Ray and DVD)
• Favourite movies and TV series (I've got 4TB of war movies, nearly 4TB of historical movies and same for historical TV series)
• ISO backups of all your music discs
• Backups of family PCs, photos and other docs.

2. RAID is not backup. You need to have a separate backup disc for each NAS hard disc (external USB hard drives, in my case 4TB HDDs in a USB 3.0 cradle). Those backup discs are stored in my detached garage in case of fire or theft of my NAS.

3. I didn't use RAID at all. I used 4 x 4TB (individual drives) in my first 4 bay NAS, with 4 x external backups. I got a full 16TB of useable storage (with RAID 1 I would have got 8TB, yes redundancy, but redundancy is not backup!)

I later bought a 2 bay expansion unit for 6 x 4TB drives total. Now I'm on a 12 bay NAS...

Since I'm retired I've got lots of time to convert all my discs to digital format and store them, and back up the changes. You'll need plenty of time too.

Windows Robocopy allows you to copy 'only changes', so ideal for backing up NAS drives to external HDDs.

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I agree with pretty much all you say. You were instrumental in convincing me to get a 4 bay NAS when I was considering only a 2 bay, and I'm glad I went the way I did. I feel more at ease knowing that my partially filled NAS can double in size by only purchasing a few more HDD's.

I do believe the RAID redundancy is worth more than how you portray it, however. There are several ways data can be lost or corrupted, the most common of which has to be a failed HD (or possibly virus corruption, which is another discussion entirely), and a RAID scheme guards against that and provides instant recovery when it does happens with very little additional effort on the part of the user. It guards against the most common problem with the least amount of effort. It does provide a "real backup" for data on other PC's as well. The least common cause for data loss would have to be a drastic change in the environment where the NAS is located, like fire, flood, theft... whatever. You are right in that RAID does not help there, and that is why an external backup is a necessity. But it is the least likely scenario and it requires the most effort from the user, not to mention being at a low priority on the must have list once one becomes homeless from some catastrophe.

For my needs, and there are probably many like me, I have no need to keep volumes of drives for movies and TV shows. I seldom watch them, and when I do, I pretty much never watch them again. I have only 2 small laptops to backup, a thousand photos or so, and no video surveillance. Already I have Flac copies of nearly all my redbook CDs (I'm into the M's, and ive been ripping them for weeks now), Flac copies of all DVD/DVDA audio files, and ISO copies of my SACD's (provided I can find them, as I have no modified PS3 to create them). My 4TB data drive is barely 1/2 full. And beyond adding additional drives when needed, I can also adopt the same system you use, wipe the RAID disks and use them for normal data storage and do a regular external backup. But I don't see any reason to do that at this point (stop the RAID that is, the external backup is always a good idea).

My advise to GOS is, if you are considering going to a NAS, get something larger than you think you might need, because Homer is correct, once you have it you WILL find more things to keep on it. The additional cost of going from a 2 bay to a 4 bay is less than $100, its the additional HDD's that account for the bulk of the additional cost, and you don't need them until you need them. And have or at least plan for some means of making an external backup.

Yeah, I probably will go NAS, but in reality, all of the specs and details about the NAS sort of confuse me. I guess what I'm saying is, minimally, I don't know which ones to consider. I get the 2 bay vs 4 bay topic. Makes sense...but then once you get past that, I don't know what other "features" I need.

GOS said:

Yeah, I probably will go NAS, but in reality, all of the specs and details about the NAS sort of confuse me. I guess what I'm saying is, minimally, I don't know which ones to consider. I get the 2 bay vs 4 bay topic. Makes sense...but then once you get past that, I don't know what other "features" I need.

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I was in the same position. I read a lot of reviews on amazon and newegg and asked a lot of questions here. The top brands seem to be QNAP and Synology. Each has their supporters and detractors. It would also help to get a ballpark idea of how much data you plan on storing on it. That was a biggie for me. I started out thinking I only wanted to load music I had already burned to disk. Once I saw how convenient it was, I decided to load everything on it except vinyl and SACD's which I don't have a way to convert to a playable format. By the time i'm done with all the music files and the concert DVD's, I'll bet I fill that 4TB drive no problem. But I wont fill another 4TB drive in the rest of my lifetime.

Agreed LuvMyQuad. But RAID does not solve a virus or accidental deletion as RAID redundancy by design is automated duplication of everything.

I spent so much time ripping, tagging, renaming and organising my media I've now got multiple backups and upgraded to Red Pro drives (5yr warranty) because although I still have thousands of original discs I never want to go through all that work again if all I need is a $200 backup drive! And a backup of the backup

HomerJAU said:

I've now got multiple backups and upgraded to Red Pro drives (5yr warranty)

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I set mine up with Western Digital Red's, supposedly optimized for server use. Is that the same thing?

LuvMyQuad said:

I set mine up with Western Digital Red's, supposedly optimized for server use. Is that the same thing?

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Red:
5400rpm
3yr Warranty
NAS 8 drives max
Lower power use

Red Pro:
7200rpm
5yr Warranty
NAS 16 drives max (vibration compensation)
Faster read/write speeds

Since I load my NAS drives once write speed is not too critical and for playback of media read speed is not important. In a business with many users reading and writing files concurrently the Pro's performance is a must, but for home media it's not.

milt said:

GOS, the only thing you really need is more RAM.
Selling any PC with 4GB of RAM is just wrong.
Not knowing the brand of your PC and the MB, you can either buy another 4GB stick for 8GB or an 8GB stick for 12GB which would be the way I would go.

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^This

4GB RAM these days would be the bare min

Some of my i5 towers have 16-32GB's of RAM and they scream

Many laptops don't allow this much RAM to be installed so you must check first and also the speed and brand of the RAM matters too.

In the "old" days processor speed was the bottleneck. Today it's the amt of RAM and the speed of the HDD (meaning a SSD is crucial for OS but you already have that).

7200 rpm HDD's for archival use are usually louder and produce more heat. They are faster but not really necessary when serving up files (probably because of the amt of buffer built into modern day 5400 drives)

Help! I'm attempting to mix in surround using Audacity on a laptop connected to my OPPO103 via HDMI. When I playback 5.1 mixes in Audacity via this connection, nothing comes out of my rear speakers (the rear channels get routed to my front speakers, while the fronts, center, and subwoofer all engage normally). When I play 5.1 music using Foobar from my laptop through the same connection, all 5.1 speakers play perfectly. Is there a setting in Audacity I need to adjust? If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it! (SpecWeb also engages all of my speakers for surround mixing... Audacity seems to be the only problem child!)

skherbeck said:

Help! I'm attempting to mix in surround using Audacity on a laptop connected to my OPPO103 via HDMI. When I playback 5.1 mixes in Audacity via this connection, nothing comes out of my rear speakers (the rear channels get routed to my front speakers, while the fronts, center, and subwoofer all engage normally). When I play 5.1 music using Foobar from my laptop through the same connection, all 5.1 speakers play perfectly. Is there a setting in Audacity I need to adjust? If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it! (SpecWeb also engages all of my speakers for surround mixing... Audacity seems to be the only problem child!)

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You probably need ASIO drivers that can handle surround, and then set Audacity to use them. Try this, it's what I use: http://www.asio4all.com/


*I don't use Audacity, but to set the drivers here's their page on the subject: http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/device_toolbar.html

seemingly the biggest flaw in Audacity when working on Surround stuff.. I've never been able to get Audacity to output 5.1 on the fly, while editing or monitoring while recording MultiCh in.. Audacity seems only to be able to output/playback the stems either each one solo'd or the whole lot downmixed to 2-ch.. unless someone here knows otherwise?

One great thing about Audacity with surround, which I've mentioned on QQ before, is you can very easily reassign channels when you export the MultiCh stems.. a feature I've found mega useful for transferring old Quads to digital etc and where the channels were screwed up back in the original 70's disc/tape.

Hi guys, I am looking into ways of simplyfing my setup and perhaps go completely disc less. This would mean introducing a av receiver and remove the player and pre amps from the chain. One question I have, when you connect your pc or NAS via HDMI to the receiver, you will always get gapless playback of stereo and multi channel?

Second question, modernday receiver can also decode mkv files, or how do they handle video files?

Thanks.

Robert van Diggele said:

Hi guys, I am looking into ways of simplyfing my setup and perhaps go completely disc less. This would mean introducing a av receiver and remove the player and pre amps from the chain. One question I have, when you connect your pc or NAS via HDMI to the receiver, you will always get gapless playback of stereo and multi channel?

Second question, modernday receiver can also decode mkv files, or how do they handle video files?

Thanks.

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I don't think they can Robert, I use a player for that on my pc (JRiver).

Thanks Jan. Playback of multichannel flac using hdmi will not be a problem?

Robert van Diggele said:

Thanks Jan. Playback of multichannel flac using hdmi will not be a problem?

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I'm not Jan.. but.. no problemo, dood :upthumb

Robert van Diggele said:

Thanks Jan. Playback of multichannel flac using hdmi will not be a problem?

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Works great here! Foobar2000 gives gapless playback. Tested on 2 PCs: Win7 & Win10, Ati Radeon and Nividia GeForce videocards' HDMIs.