HiRez Poll Gentle Giant - THE POWER AND THE GLORY [BluRay Audio]

I really didn't like the music at first. But after a few listens it grew quite a bite on me. I guess I didn't (get it) at first, now I (get it). I voted 9.

groo said:

For once SW got the bass/LF effects right.

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I'm listening to this one again (woohoo!) and agree . The drum work is on full wonderful display with the kick drum sounding perfect to my ears. The bass in general is warm and full and doesn't take away from any other lovely element. With other SW mixes I do sometimes think about dialing up the sub, not here. Concerning the vocals near the end, sounds like fitting exasperation to me.

I had heard some GG in my youth about 25 years ago and thought they were somewhat interesting, if a bit kinda weird, and Frank Zappa is one of my favorite artists so I like weird, but they just never really clicked for me. After reading reviews for this release almost 2 years ago, I bought it and now after many listens, I honestly think this is my number one favorite surround mix ever.

The cool CG video with lyrics is a definite plus for the overall package too. I almost feel like the video and lyrics gave me an understanding of the songs that seasoned veterans of GG might not have even caught, and that's just really cool to get such a visceral understanding right off the bat, but the layering of so many tracks in such an engulfing way really blows my mind.

It's a very dry mix overall, which in my opinion really lends itself to a great surround mix. I guess the only minor negative that I have is that the center channel vocals are a bit subdued overall, but if I crank the center a couple of decibels, it sounds perfect. Huge front sound-stage, clear separate lead vocals in the center, deep, tight, balanced low-end from the bass guitar and kick drum, and smart, expansive use of the surrounds with lots of discrete instruments and harmonies.

Frogmort said:

I guess the only minor negative that I have is that the center channel vocals are a bit subdued overall, but if I crank the center a couple of decibels, it sounds perfect.

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Interesting... this same sentiment came to light with Songs From the Big Chair. There was some debate at the time that Steven Wilson tends to leave the center channel strength a bit lower than it should be. There were also comments about how a real center channel (as opposed to a phantom channel) always needs to be recorded slightly stronger than the L and R just because of how acoustics work. At least I think that was the jist of conversation.

wavelength said:

Interesting... this same sentiment came to light with Songs From the Big Chair. There was some debate at the time that Steven Wilson tends to leave the center channel strength a bit lower than it should be. There were also comments about how a real center channel (as opposed to a phantom channel) always needs to be recorded slightly stronger than the L and R just because of how acoustics work. At least I think that was the jist of conversation.

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That was my thought at the time too, and that could still be the case, but something has changed between SW's mixes from 2013-14 and his mixes from 2015. On a properly treated and balanced system, listen to how much more forward the center channel (vocals) are on mixes like "Minstrel in the Gallery", "Oranges & Lemons", and "Fragile" as compared to ones like this one or "Songs from the Big Chair". Something changed with the way SW integrates the center channel and the spread of the lead vocal across more channels, but I'll have to find the time to figure out exactly what the difference is. To be continued…

wavelength said:

Interesting... this same sentiment came to light with Songs From the Big Chair. There was some debate at the time that Steven Wilson tends to leave the center channel strength a bit lower than it should be. There were also comments about how a real center channel (as opposed to a phantom channel) always needs to be recorded slightly stronger than the L and R just because of how acoustics work. At least I think that was the jist of conversation.

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I've had no problems with vocals in general after hard setting the center channel higher on my system. Now even my wife, who I suspect might have better hearing than me, says she can "finally understand what they're saying". I run Audyssey but think the AVR sets the level a bit too low. This seems to work even for mixes that don't place the vocals in the center channel.

wavelength said:

Interesting... this same sentiment came to light with Songs From the Big Chair. There was some debate at the time that Steven Wilson tends to leave the center channel strength a bit lower than it should be. There were also comments about how a real center channel (as opposed to a phantom channel) always needs to be recorded slightly stronger than the L and R just because of how acoustics work. At least I think that was the jist of conversation.

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Never noticed the lack of center on that one, but I'll check it out, for comparison. Yep, it's just a hair subtle on the center. Never noticed this as much on the Yes or King Crimson stuff though. I do love the fact that SW actually uses the center channel though. Although I do have a measured standard setting for everything, I realize that every surround album, or even movies are just mixed according to someone's preferences; the artist, producer, director, sound guy, etc.

I don't have any qualms at all with having to boost/reduce the center, subs, or surrounds a bit here and there to make a recording sound balanced to me.

Frogmort said:

I don't have any qualms at all with having to boost/reduce the center, subs, or surrounds a bit here and there to make a recording sound balanced to me.

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Absolutely. I find that I have to dial in (change channel levels) on a regular basis with the surround discs I play to try and get the perfect surround experience. I'm not talking about drastic changes but variances from 0.5 to 1.0db for any given channel are very common. I think a lot of that is room acoustics combined with the different types of signals (from disc to disc) being fed to the 5 main speakers. And of course different engineers have different MOs.

OK - just one more off topic comment. Regarding changing channel levels...and you would think a seasoned audio guy like me would know this...so...let's say I use room correction (Audessey) spelling? But, during one disc, I decide to manually bump up the sub.... When I shut down the AVR, does it "reset" to the original settings?

OK - Gentle Giant... blah, blah...good...love it. :banana:

GOS said:

OK - just one more off topic comment. Regarding changing channel levels...and you would think a seasoned audio guy like me would know this...so...let's say I use room correction (Audessey) spelling? But, during one disc, I decide to manually bump up the sub.... When I shut down the AVR, does it "reset" to the original settings?

OK - Gentle Giant... blah, blah...good...love it. :banana:

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Think it'll stay bumped up. That allows you to permanently tweak settings after using Audessey if you desire. Personally, I leave the settings on the AVR alone and just use the remote for the subs to increase/decrease as needed (if you have the option to do that).

Tornado Red said:

Think it'll stay bumped up. That allows you to permanently tweak settings after using Audessey if you desire. Personally, I leave the settings on the AVR alone and just use the remote for the subs to increase/decrease as needed (if you have the option to do that).

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When I fiddle with the channel level on my amplifier, it is only valid until I change the source or switch it of - then it is alwaus back to the basic settings. This is also the way I like it to be - always start in a neutral setting.

Tornado Red said:

Think it'll stay bumped up. That allows you to permanently tweak settings after using Audessey if you desire. Personally, I leave the settings on the AVR alone and just use the remote for the subs to increase/decrease as needed (if you have the option to do that).

Click to expand...

When I fiddle with the channel level on my amplifier, it is only valid until I change the source or switch it of - then it is always back to the basic settings. This is also the way I like it to be - always start in a neutral setting.

GOS said:

Regarding changing channel levels...and you would think a seasoned audio guy like me would know this...so...let's say I use room correction (Audessey) spelling? But, during one disc, I decide to manually bump up the sub.... When I shut down the AVR, does it "reset" to the original settings?

Click to expand...

On my regular joe set-up, I can adjust all channels independently on the fly and after shutting down they return to the hard settings. I don't have to do it often but it can make a world of difference at times.

This one grows on you...
10.

The reviews got me, I had to have this. Gentle Giant are perfect for surround sound, this has to be up there as one of the best. Can't fault this, perfect music, perfect sound and perfect visuals which when veiwed with my TV in 3D mode look amazing. A solid 10..

A bit better than Octopus, and the equal of 3 Piece Suite! Amazing sound and mix. I can't wait for Free Hand.

A killer SW mix. So many jaw dropping moments. I LOVE that the lyrics play along with the songs. Makes it is easy to turn the lights low and just sink into the music. I had never heard a Gentle Giant song before picking this up. I was pretty impressed and have also bought the next 2 SW remixes. I was expecting something more medieval based upon the name and the artwork I saw over the years. Glad I was wrong! A 9 for me.

I received a free copy of this disc almost two months ago (thanks again @privateuniverse) and didn't get a chance to properly listen until today. I didn't audition the album in stereo beforehand.

Wow. This has to be one of Steven Wilson's best surround mixes. It's definitely the most overtly "discrete" or separated of all his mixes I've heard. There are times where it sounds like a "Columbia Q8" mix, with a totally dry presentation and different instruments in each corner of the room.

What really caught my attention is the way the drums are mixed. The drums sound huge and have this incredible wrap-around effect, where they really feel like they're holographically positioned in the middle of the room, crashing all around you. I'd agree with @rtbluray that it can get slightly overbearing at times, to the point where the vocals are a bit drowned out, but it's still pretty cool.

If I had to nitpick about the mix, I'd say that the center-channel vocal levels aren't quite right. They seem too low on "Proclamation" and then overbearing on "Cogs In Cogs". That's easily fixable in Audacity though.

The animations are incredible as well. As someone who has experience doing kinetic type animations in After Effects, I shudder at the thought of how much time it took to do that.

The music? I'd agree it's on the challenging side (particularly the vocals, as others have mentioned), but I'm finding plenty to like on my first few listens. Some highlights thus far for me are "Aspirations" and "Playing The Game".

"Proclamation" (at around 4:30 it gets absolutely bonkers):

If ever a band was tailor made for 5.1 its GG , there is so much going on , this is a great release the SW mix is incredible and the menus are really cool - its a 10

A 10. C'mon, those who are downgrading this... what are you comparing it to? It's superb! I enjoy the videos too with the lyrics. More 5.1 blus should do this. Anything which helps you understand the songs better is fine with me. Wilson also did a good job with the 5.1 mix of Giant's first album available on the box set. Is there no thread dedicated to that?