Ripping Blu Ray

GOS said:

If it downsamples LPCM, that's news to me. does it??

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It does not.

LPCM is ripped as is (to wav or flac). The advantage is indeed that it can be pre-tagged.

For DTS *decoding* (i.e., if you use DVDAE to convert to wav) , only the core (48/24) is decoded. This is not 'downsampling' of DTS 96/24 or DTS-MA, as has already been explained to himey. There is no resampling involved, it is simply decoding *part* of the DTS file. All DTS files have this capability so that they can be backwards-compatible with older DTS decoders. But DTS 96/24 (and DTS-HD) *can* be ripped completely by DVDA using the 'Direct Demux' option, which creates .dts files that include core DTS + extensions . (However, DVDAE currently has a bug which prevents it from creating correct DTS-MA files , except for the first file on a disc. So for now it really only works well for DTS 96/24). With Direct Demux of DTS you are transferring the raw undecoded DTS file to your drive, rather than a decoded file. To play it you will need a downstream DTS decoder (one that can decode 96/24 or DTS-MA, otherwise, again, you will only get the 'core', as DTS designed it to work) in your software or AVR.

ssully said:

It does not.

LPCM is ripped as is (to wav for flac). The advantage is indeed that it can be pre-tagged.
For DTS *decoding* (i.e., if you use DVDAE to convert to wav) , only the core (48/24) is decoded. This is not 'downsampling' of DTS 96/24 or DTS-MA, as has already been explained to himey. There is no resampling involved, it is simply decoding *part* of the DTS file. All DTS files have this capability so that they can be backwards-compatible wil older DTS decoders. But DTS 96/24 (and DTS-HD) *can* be ripped completely by DVDA using the 'Direct Demux' option, which creates to a .dts file that includes core DTS + extensions . (However, DVDAE currently has a bug which prevents it from creating correct DTS-MA files ,e xcept for the first file on a disc. So for now it really only works well for DTS 96/24))

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Jeez. Your impossible to deal with and your silly semantics. So what if it is the core. In the end, the file it produces is the core and is a downsampled version of the origional file.

LESSER QUALITY! CALL IT THE CORE IF YOU WANT.

Downsample in this case means a lower sample rate.

himey said:

Jeez. Your impossible to deal with and your silly semantics. So what if it is the core. In the end, the file it produces is the core and is a downsampled version of the origional file.
LESSER QUALITY! CALL IT THE CORE IF YOU WANT.

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I'm using correct terminology. You're spreading misinformation. The signal isn't undergoing any resampling (down or up) during the 'ripping' or decoding process.

In 'plain' DTS there is one data stream (the 'core') and that's all that you can ever decode. In other flavors -- 96/24, DTS-MA there are two streams ('core' and 'extension'). Decoding core alone gives you 'plain' lossy DTS output. Decoding both together gives 'full' output -- though for DTS 96/24 *it is still lossy* (the extension adds back some high frequency content, but still lossy compared to the original signal). Whereas for DTS-MA, the core is still lossy but the core + extension reconstructs the original uncompressed signal. Resampling is a *process*, a transformation of the signal; it doesn't mean unpacking just part of the signal.

It's somewhat analogous to HDCD, you get 'part' of the signal without a decoder, you get the 'whole thing' with the decoder, and there is no resampling /requantizing involved.

When you 'rip' a DTS to .wav, you are *decoding* it. DVDAE has an old DTS decoder which can only decode core. Audiomuxer (which is free) has a more modern decoder that can decode core + extension. But DVDAE can truly *rip* DTS files natively (core + extension) from disc to drive --- albeit without decoding them. You'll just need a proper decoder to decode them to fully .wav.

(And for a further trick, you can run the non-decoded .dts files through Audiomuxer's 'Convert to Spdif WAV/flac' process, which does NOT decode them but DOES allow you to 'flac and tag' them.)

ssully said:

It does not.

LPCM is ripped as is (to wav or flac). The advantage is indeed that it can be pre-tagged.

For DTS *decoding* (i.e., if you use DVDAE to convert to wav) , only the core (48/24) is decoded. This is not 'downsampling' of DTS 96/24 or DTS-MA, as has already been explained to himey. There is no resampling involved, it is simply decoding *part* of the DTS file. All DTS files have this capability so that they can be backwards-compatible with older DTS decoders. But DTS 96/24 (and DTS-HD) *can* be ripped completely by DVDA using the 'Direct Demux' option, which creates .dts files that include core DTS + extensions . (However, DVDAE currently has a bug which prevents it from creating correct DTS-MA files , except for the first file on a disc. So for now it really only works well for DTS 96/24). With Direct Demux of DTS you are transferring the raw undecoded DTS file to your drive, rather than a decoded file. To play it you will need a downstream DTS decoder (one that can decode 96/24 or DTS-MA, otherwise, again, you will only get the 'core', as DTS designed it to work) in your software or AVR.

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Wow, and I thought I was completely going crazy. So, you think it's a bug? You think they will correct this ridiculous thing in future firmware??

(However, DVDAE currently has a bug which prevents it from creating correct DTS-MA files , except for the first file on a disc.)

SSully is quite right. The bottom line is that DVDAE will not properly rip DTS-MA files. So, Gos, you are not crazy (at least about this LOL). At least for now you will not be able to use DVDAE to rip DTS-MA files correctly unless you use another method such as the one I outlined in Post #268.

For ripping discs, assumint that there is nothing the matter with the physical disc itself, the method that I outlined in Post #268 will work on all blu-rays and DVDs regardless of codec (e.g. DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc.) or resolutions. Therefore, it should be regarded as the GO TO METHOD if all else fails. Indeed, for most discs it should probably be the primary method that one should use. In that sense it is also the simplest method and Simplicity and Reliability is what I was aiming for.

Of course, a number of people including myself may on occasion use other methods. For example, ripping an MLP file using DVDAE will often (but not always) save you time in tagging. Whatever works for your situation is what you should use and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

However, if all else fails...

quoddiophile said:

(However, DVDAE currently has a bug which prevents it from creating correct DTS-MA files , except for the first file on a disc.)

SSully is quite right. The bottom line is that DVDAE will not properly rip DTS-MA files. So, Gos, you are not crazy (at least about this LOL). At least for now you will not be able to use DVDAE to rip DTS-MA files correctly unless you use another method such as the one I outlined in Post #268.

For ripping discs, assumint that there is nothing the matter with the physical disc itself, the method that I outlined in Post #268 will work on all blu-rays and DVDs regardless of codec (e.g. DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc.) or resolutions. Therefore, it should be regarded as the GO TO METHOD if all else fails. Indeed, for most discs it should probably be the primary method that one should use. In that sense it is also the simplest method and Simplicity and Reliability is what I was aiming for.

Of course, a number of people including myself may on occasion use other methods. For example, ripping an MLP file using DVDAE will often (but not always) save you time in tagging. Whatever works for your situation is what you should use and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

However, if all else fails...

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I totally agree. My problem is that as time marches on...and I don't use a particular method...I totally forget how to do it. Is that my age showing up? I dunno....

And, just to throw some completely off topic stuff out there...I'm listening to Gary Wright. I love that dude.....music rules.

The Music Media Helper app I have been working on can split MKV files into chapters, which was envisaged for music videos since it retains the original video and audio streams (a copy of the original streams).

I just added splitting MKVs into chapters and outputting as FLAC, including decoding of DTS-HDMA to FLAC at original lossless sample rates (e.g 96/24) not just 'Core'.

I've been using AudioMuxer to do this previously and then running Tagscanner to tag the FLAC files. I decided to simplify that process by combining the steps so that Music Media Helper will search for the artist and album and automatically tag the FLAC track files after conversion. (If it finds the album in the Musicbrainz database, otherwise you can copy and paste a track list - all at once, or manually enter the data then save the tags).

There's still a couple of code tweaks needed but it's close to being completed. I'll post in the Music Media Helper thread when it's ready next week.

quoddiophile said:

For ripping discs, assumint that there is nothing the matter with the physical disc itself, the method that I outlined in Post #268 will work on all blu-rays and DVDs regardless of codec (e.g. DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc.) or resolutions. Therefore, it should be regarded as the GO TO METHOD if all else fails. Indeed, for most discs it should probably be the primary method that one should use. In that sense it is also the simplest method and Simplicity and Reliability is what I was aiming for.

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Agreed. This is the only method I used to rip all my Blu-Rays. It worked perfectly every time and it is not difficult.

LuvMyQuad said:

Agreed. This is the only method I used to rip all my Blu-Rays. It worked perfectly every time and it is not difficult.

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Not to be difficult, but notice my post 299. I followed this method with Elton's Yellow Brick Road and it wouldn't work. For that particular disc, I had to actually perform a backup using MakeMKV and was able to locate the DTS MA stream that way. Anyway - seems MakeMKV program is the way to go, whether you create MKV files, or perform full backup method.

GOS said:

Not to be difficult, but notice my post 299. I followed this method with Elton's Yellow Brick Road and it wouldn't work. For that particular disc, I had to actually perform a backup using MakeMKV and was able to locate the DTS MA stream that way. Anyway - seems MakeMKV program is the way to go, whether you create MKV files, or perform full backup method.

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GOS:

I had no problems ripping Elton John's Yellow Brick Road using the method in Post #268.

I have gone through all the posts and can't really tell what happened in your case. Mind you I got a headache just looking at those posts and so my brain was not functioning properly.

As a bizarre aside, this method failed to work on only one of the scores of discs that I have ripped. That disc was a 4.0/24-192 (!) Blu-ray of Music from Citizen Kane (Bernard Herrmann). Some months ago I had tried it at least 5 times without success. Last night I tried it again and it worked perfectly. Go figure! The only thing I can think of is that this time I used a purchased copy of MKV rather than the beta version that I used on the unsuccessful attempts. However, that seems an unlikely explanation. A mystery but with a successful outcome.

Regardless, I'm glad that eventually you succeeded in ripping Yellow Brick Road. That's what counts!

Jim

GOS said:

Not to be difficult, but notice my post 299. I followed this method with Elton's Yellow Brick Road and it wouldn't work. For that particular disc, I had to actually perform a backup using MakeMKV and was able to locate the DTS MA stream that way. Anyway - seems MakeMKV program is the way to go, whether you create MKV files, or perform full backup method.

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Yeah, I never tried GBYBR as I only have the SACD version of that title (which is definitely more complicated to rip). So GBYBR certainly looks like an exception based on your experiences. I also never tried the backup route with makeMKV, since I never felt I needed to.

This stuff is strange sometimes.

What I've done when trying to figure out what is in the MKV files that get produced is to play them using VCL media player. Once the MKV file is loaded you can advance by track to determine what the last track is, if there is real video included etc.

LuvMyQuad said:

Yeah, I never tried GBYBR as I only have the SACD version of that title (which is definitely more complicated to rip). So GBYBR certainly looks like an exception based on your experiences. I also never tried the backup route with makeMKV, since I never felt I needed to.

This stuff is strange sometimes.

What I've done when trying to figure out what is in the MKV files that get produced is to play them using VCL media player. Once the MKV file is loaded you can advance by track to determine what the last track is, if there is real video included etc.

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LOL! I just purchased GBYBR - bluray because I had sworn that someone said it sounded superior to the SACD (which I also have)...and to my ears...I can't tell one ounce of difference. :yikes

GOS said:

LOL! I just purchased GBYBR - bluray because I had sworn that someone said it sounded superior to the SACD (which I also have)...and to my ears...I can't tell one ounce of difference. :yikes

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try double checking that intro/fade up on Social Disease..

For those that use MakeMKV, and if your version has expired - I have a solution.

Ripping the audio from the Bluray of Big Big Train. I'm surprised to find that the DTS MA layer claims to only be 48/24. Guess I "assumed" all DTS MA would be 96/24 or something like that.

GOS said:

Ripping the audio from the Bluray of Big Big Train. I'm surprised to find that the DTS MA layer claims to only be 48/24. Guess I "assumed" all DTS MA would be 96/24 or something like that.

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Most films on Blu-Ray have an audio sampling rate of 48 kHz, which is the standard sampling rate for most professional audio/video equipment.

rtbluray said:

Most films on Blu-Ray have an audio sampling rate of 48 kHz, which is the standard sampling rate for most professional audio/video equipment.

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Huh, didn't know that. Though, this is the first time I've tried ripping audio from a bluray "concert". Interesting. Regardless, as we all know, this disc sounds stunning!!!!

GOS said:

Ripping the audio from the Bluray of Big Big Train. I'm surprised to find that the DTS MA layer claims to only be 48/24. Guess I "assumed" all DTS MA would be 96/24 or something like that.

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Good idea, Gene. I think I will rip the audio from this one too. I usually don't rip my concert blu rays, the video take to much GB's - and the audio is not always worth it. But this is different - awesome surround and fidelty. And I do play music more often if it is on the pc.

Spock said:

Good idea, Gene. I think I will rip the audio from this one too. I usually don't rip my concert blu rays, the video take to much GB's - and the audio is not always worth it. But this is different - awesome surround and fidelty. And I do play music more often if it is on the pc.

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I'm now finished and I have a minor suggestion. You may want to not bother with the song number 1 called Setting UP. Lot's of talk and chatter. The real meat of the concert actually starts with song 2. (The First Rebreather)