Steven Wilson Vocals on TFF Sftbc

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kap'n krunch

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Hello Steven;
I have stated, along with other members of the forum , that the vocals on most of this songs on the Surround mix are "buried" in the mix and we have to boost the center channel about 4 to 5 dB to balance it (compared to the upmixes of "Broken" in which the vocals are quite prominent).
Knowing your great work, I'm almost positive that it either was your decision to do so or that something went awry in the chain to the final product (and I'm taking the great Neil Wilkes out of there because he would have caught it and fixed it).

Have you had a chance to listen to the DVD-A?
 
Hello there

That scared me for a moment! I just checked opening track Shout on the DVDA that is included in the box set, and I can confirm it is 100% fine, centre channel vocals loud and clear. I also compared to my original mix session and it sounds identical. So the next thing I would ask you to do is check the new stereo mix. With my remixes the 5.1 mix is always the same mix as the new stereo (itself based on replicating the balances in the old stereo mix as closely as possible), with the 5.1 simply spread out into the surround field. Do the vocals sound at the correct volume on the new stereo mix? If not then it could just be that your expectations of how loud the vocals should be on this album are different to how they actually are (though that seems unlikely). But if the new stereo mix does sound correct to you, and different to the balance of the 5.1 mix, then it sounds like something is wrong with the way the 5.1 stream is playing back through your system. Note that Broken would not be a good reference for whether your centre channel is working correctly because it's a processed version of the stereo mix so some vocals will be coming out of all speakers.

This is probably one where Neil might be able to help??

S
 
Hello there

That scared me for a moment! I just checked opening track Shout on the DVDA that is included in the box set, and I can confirm it is 100% fine, centre channel vocals loud and clear. I also compared to my original mix session and it sounds identical. So the next thing I would ask you to do is check the new stereo mix. With my remixes the 5.1 mix is always the same mix as the new stereo (itself based on replicating the balances in the old stereo mix as closely as possible), with the 5.1 simply spread out into the surround field. Do the vocals sound at the correct volume on the new stereo mix? If not then it could just be that your expectations of how loud the vocals should be on this album are different to how they actually are (though that seems unlikely). But if the new stereo mix does sound correct to you, and different to the balance of the 5.1 mix, then it sounds like something is wrong with the way the 5.1 stream is playing back through your system. Note that Broken would not be a good reference for whether your centre channel is working correctly because it's a processed version of the stereo mix so some vocals will be coming out of all speakers.

This is probably one where Neil might be able to help??

S

I would like to mention that the vocals are fine on my system..great job on that album..I'm loving it! Keep up the great work..I'd love to see Michael Jackson's Thriller done in 5.1...any chance..
 
I would like to mention that the vocals are fine on my system..great job on that album..I'm loving it!

Total agreement! When I started up the Blu-ray for the first time I was consciously thinking about the complaints some have had about the vocals, but I thought everything sounded exactly right.

Thank you for another great mix, Mr. Wilson!
 
The vocals seem fine on mine also... (playing LPCM on the Blu-ray)
 
i wasn't even aware about this one.
thank guys, gonna ordered, most likely BDA.
and thank you Steven very much for your work.

b.t.w. Steven, what do you think about self titled album Visage?
would you be willing to remix it into surround?
 
Vocals are OK on my system, playing 5.1 LPCM from Blu-ray.

The 5.1 mix really breathed new life into an album I'd over played when it first came out. Thanks Steven :cool:
 
Hello there

That scared me for a moment! I just checked opening track Shout on the DVDA that is included in the box set, and I can confirm it is 100% fine, centre channel vocals loud and clear. I also compared to my original mix session and it sounds identical. So the next thing I would ask you to do is check the new stereo mix. With my remixes the 5.1 mix is always the same mix as the new stereo (itself based on replicating the balances in the old stereo mix as closely as possible), with the 5.1 simply spread out into the surround field. Do the vocals sound at the correct volume on the new stereo mix? If not then it could just be that your expectations of how loud the vocals should be on this album are different to how they actually are (though that seems unlikely). But if the new stereo mix does sound correct to you, and different to the balance of the 5.1 mix, then it sounds like something is wrong with the way the 5.1 stream is playing back through your system. Note that Broken would not be a good reference for whether your centre channel is working correctly because it's a processed version of the stereo mix so some vocals will be coming out of all speakers.

This is probably one where Neil might be able to help??

S

Thank you Steven..I'll do just that...check the original Stereo version I have in vinyl and compare...Thanks for replying..you ROCK! (too bad you're not coming to España on your next tour, I saw you at the Auditorium Hotel in Nov last year... )...I think Neil would've been aware of any screwups...maybe I gotta calibrate my system again...
 
well, I guess something is "scwewy" in my system.... ahahahahaa (thank you Elmer F!)

The thing is that, for the rest of my collection, I do not seem to have a problem....

It's what Swami Steven sez...expectations..they'll screw you everytime!

buenas noches mis amigas/os y hermanas/os...

Signing out...

(Tyler is guilty , ouuuuurr judge said so....)
 
I checked my speaker calibrations yesterday and everything is spot on. The ONLY way to properly calibrate speaker levels is to use a SPL Meter. I have tried (2) auto-calibration systems included in newer receivers and they were not even close. That being said, by adding 4.5 dB to the center channel on my system the vocals are present like the original CD I own and the 5.1 mix sounds great.
 
?? I'm with most of the others. Vocals sound just fine on my system too. Not sure why some are having issues...
 
I checked my speaker calibrations yesterday and everything is spot on. The ONLY way to properly calibrate speaker levels is to use a SPL Meter. I have tried (2) auto-calibration systems included in newer receivers and they were not even close. That being said, by adding 4.5 dB to the center channel on my system the vocals are present like the original CD I own and the 5.1 mix sounds great.

Then you seem to be saying that the center channel vocals are mixed at too low of a volume.
 
Then you seem to be saying that the center channel vocals are mixed at too low of a volume.

Correct. My wife was doing her Christmas thing in our listening area and I was working in my home office when I played the disc for the first time, this is a favorite title of hers. She called out to tell me something was wrong with the disc or my system because she could not hear the vocals well. She was correct, the other channels were much louder than the center thus drowning them out. I made a copy of the Blu-Ray and added 4.5 dB to the center channel, she is now happy with the sound and so am I. My system has no problems with any of my over 600 DVDA, SACD or DTS surround titles, none.
 
I am wondering if we need to go a level deeper and look at which encoding folks are using. For reference, I have been using the straight LPCM encoding of the 5.1 mix and have no issues with the center channel level at all. Will try with the other encodings tonight.
 
I've had no troubles with the centre channel on either 5.1 mix. Not sure if this will help but for what it's worth:

Those who have experienced low vocals haven't been listening to Bob Marley's Legend or Bryan Adam's Reckless just prior, have they? I really doubt this would be the issue but I have noticed that Bob Clearmountain's mixes chuck a lot of info into the centre channel (which I'm a big fan of) and/or just have a louder centre channel whereas Steven Wilson's don't do so to the same extent (also perfectly fine by me). When I listen to anything immediately after Reckless, I do a double-take for a sec, thinking that something's up with the centre channel, but that wears off pretty quick.

The bass on TFF's Shout that's coming out the centre channel sounds freakin' superb (I never noticed just how awesome it sounds on CD before - SW's mix has definitely brought it out) and is quite similar in tone to Roland's vocal in parts. Perhaps some centre channels aren't handling the separation of these 2 sounds as well as others and the vocals are suffering a bit? I have a Kef 600C which is a reasonably large speaker and seems to do a pret-ty good job at coping with whatever I've thrown at it so far. Could possibly be a factor? Just an aside that I could tell from The Yes Album and Legend that my previous Mission wasn't handling things as well as another speaker could be, so I took the plunge and upgraded. Glad to say that there's a lot more to be heard with the Kef.
 
My 2 cents regarding the vocals: They sound OK to me.

That said, there are SO many variables at play that could be the cause of people's issues. Both technical and psychological (speaker sensitivities, expectations, etc, etc, etc.)

I don't look for, or expect, perfection in a disc. With so many systems, setups, and ears out there, perfection is a moving target anyway.
 
Steven, excellent selection for the surround library KUDO'S. You'll be known as a demi-god in the audiophile future. 1 of my best titles to date. Can't think of another I would like to see released (Animals) your doing a good job of that. Ha. On the vocal thing No Worries. Thank You for keeping the genre alive.
 
I'm listening to the 5.1 DTS on the DVD-A. I can understand why some would find this vocal to be too quiet for their taste. I like that it doesn't sound over exposed as some centre channel weighted vocals can sound. There's a lot happening in the rears too, so I wonder if it adds to the effect. (I am currently more perturbed by the difference between/correct usage of affect and effect which I have been struggling to understand.)
 
I'm listening to the 5.1 DTS on the DVD-A. I can understand why some would find this vocal to be too quiet for their taste. I like that it doesn't sound over exposed as some centre channel weighted vocals can sound. There's a lot happening in the rears too, so I wonder if it adds to the effect. (I am currently more perturbed by the difference between/correct usage of affect and effect which I have been struggling to understand.)
You got it right Mike!:D

affect is a verb; effect is a noun.
 
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